L.B GAGA Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 13 minutes ago, Communion said: I think most cis women would rightfully find it ridiculous and misogynistic if a man demanded that she tell him on their Tinder or Bumble chat before even meeting if she is infertile or not. Many infertile women currently sadly do end up breaking up with a guy as he wants the kids at the end of the day biologically. Its a very traumatic and tormenting experience in a relationship now imagine switching with an omission of being trans, that is a recipe for a toxic relationship and breakup. Luckily soon they will be able to transplant a uterus into transwomen. I read something like that, not sure if its true.
shinyshimmery Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 I've always been of the belief that honesty is the best policy, especially in a relationship.
aesthetic bih Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 Yes, trust is very important in a relationship. This is an important matter that partners should address and discuss with each other.
Aethereal Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 24 minutes ago, Communion said: I think owe is a strong word and I trust trans men and women to navigate their own sexual/romantic interactions. And I think lived experiences for trans people are too varied to speak in generalizations anyway. There is a reality for many trans women where they can have sex with cishet men who don't realize they're trans cause they're actually not different from cis women. This "betrayal" rhetoric is often most pointedly aimed at them and largely feels like it's done in bad faith, insisting on ~danger~ to push the rhetoric trans women will always be inherently different from cis women. I think most cis women would rightfully find it ridiculous and misogynistic if a man demanded that she tell him on their Tinder or Bumble chat before even meeting if she is infertile or not. A trans woman not disclosing her transgender identity in a sex date does not make it illegal. This has been discussed here: Quote No, it’s not rape if a trans woman does not disclose her medical history prior to having sex. There’s this idea floating around that failure to disclose a person’s transgender status somehow violates a person’s right to consent but… this is non-actionable in the same way that lying about your income to entice someone to have sex isn’t rape. But please, don’t take my word for it, the fine faculty at George Washington University’s School of Law have prepared some insightful and relevant comments on the matter in their publication on Trans Panic Defense. Rape law, however, distinguishes between actionable and nonactionable rape-by-fraud by examining the type of fraud that encouraged the victim to say “yes.” As Jed Rubenfeld notes, as a general matter, sex-by-deception is not recognized as rape. Sex-by-deception constitutes rape only when the victim is deceived as to the nature of the act. For example, if the victim thinks she is being subjected to a medical procedure when the defendant is actually inserting his ***** into her ******, the defendant’s act will be construed as non-forcible rape. Such cases involve fraud-in-the-factum, which invalidates the victim’s consent, and makes the defendant’s conduct actionable as rape-by-fraud. If the victim knows that she is engaging in the act of sexual intercourse but is deceived as to some collateral matter (for example, she thinks the defendant is a famous rock star when he is not), this constitutes fraud-in-the-inducement, and is not grounds for a claim of rape-by-fraud.[1] (Emphasis is mine) The notion that there’s any form of fraud-in-the-inducement occurring when someone has sex with a transgender woman is, quite literally, grounded in a presupposition of heteronormativity, homophobia, and fragile masculinity. The basis for this legal defense is that by if one a) considers transgender women to be men and b) considers sex between a man and a transgender woman to be a homosexual act, and that c) it is reasonable for a person to feel that their masculinity had been diminished by engaging in a homosexual act… then you have a case. Except transgender women aren’t men. Sex between a man and a trans woman isn’t a homosexual act. And engaging in homosexual sex doesn’t diminish a person’s masculinity. Sorry folks, but this idea doesn’t stand up under scrutiny. At all. If you think it does, I highly encourage you to read the entire paper: The Trans Panic Defense: Heteronormativity, and the Murder of Transgender Women because it covers this topic in considerably more depth. Footnotes [1] http://scholarship.law.gwu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2377&context=faculty_publications https://www.quora.com/Is-it-considered-rape-if-a-woman-does-not-tell-you-before-sex-that-she-used-to-have-a-male-body
Tropez Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 No. Only when they feel ready. They don’t owe you that.
kyliefever2002 Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 a relationshipshould be based in trust so i do think all types of important informations regarding any personal aspect should be said at some point in the relationship with that being said, many people don't do that and i dont think trans people should be held to an immaculate standard that no one really follows people should be focusing in what makes trans folks so scared to disclose their truth first instead of coming for trans people for not doing what they think should be done
Blue. Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 I think you OWE honesty to anyone you are dating, so yes.
Communion Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 21 minutes ago, L.B GAGA said: Many infertile women currently sadly do end up breaking up with a guy as he wants the kids at the end of the day biologically. Its a very traumatic and tormenting experience in a relationship now imagine switching with an omission of being trans, that is a recipe for a toxic relationship and breakup. Luckily soon they will be able to transplant a uterus into transwomen. I read something like that, not sure if its true. 11 minutes ago, Juanny said: I agree with u, I always find ur posts quite insightful thanks for sharing. betrayal is a very dangerous rhetoric I agree I feel sometimes it is a little different in this instance, if it is obvious the person wants a long term relationship where kids r involved, it is important to inform them right away. but not a lot of the time do kids necessarily have an important factor. if you tell the person your dating “I can’t have kids btw” on the first date a lot of time they will find it actually kind of weird… like you’re already thinking of kids on the first date? especially if you’re 20 and still in school Lol. however lots of dating apps now have the option to say ‘wants kids’ so then it might be appropriate to tell them on the second or third date or so but almost everyone will prefer to know via/trans identity right away. everyone wants to know who they’re dating, so its context of the dating and where the dating is heading where this feels different for me (: To also clarify my position a little, I've just seen this conversation play out in queer spaces and (especially) online for years in a way that veers too often into right-wing talking points that are... not realistic to how dating works. There's this kind of tone espoused by right-wing cultural figures (see: Blaire White or someone similar) that trans people, trans women in particular, need to walk around with a giant sign on their head saying they're trans, even when 1) that often will put them in more danger than anything else and 2) not how flirting and dating really works. That was largely the point of mentioning cis women and the privacy of infertility, as most people would rightfully look at a man demanding to know if a cis woman wants or let alone can have children as early on as their texting phase to be pushy and the one crossing boundaries, not the woman for not disclosing. Obviously I agree with both of you that healthy relationships are built on trust and openness. I hope any trans person who wants long-term relationships that they're with people they can and are open with, for the sake not of transparency but for understanding and comfort. I just worry that some of the rhetoric on this subject becomes removed from the realities of how many trans people already navigate flirting, dating and relationships.
Domination Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 Not right away, but absolutely. Keeping it a secret will only cause problems down the line and they will find out eventually. That goes for just about anything major that someone tries to hide from their partner.
Thinking Of You Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 Why would you not disclose that from the very beginning?
Siberian Tiger Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Communion said: I think owe is a strong word and I trust trans men and women to navigate their own sexual/romantic interactions. And I think lived experiences for trans people are too varied to speak in generalizations anyway. There is a reality for many trans women where they can have sex with cishet men who don't realize they're trans cause they're actually not different from cis women. This "betrayal" rhetoric is often most pointedly aimed at them and largely feels like it's done in bad faith, insisting on ~danger~ to push the rhetoric trans women will always be inherently different from cis women. I think most cis women would rightfully find it ridiculous and misogynistic if a man demanded that she tell him on their Tinder or Bumble chat before even meeting if she is infertile or not. As a cis woman I would be happy if this topic is brought up before a date so I wouldn't waste my time on a person who wants kids. This is important information and like being a trans may negatively affect relationship or even cause violence if hidden.
Communion Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Siberian Tiger said: As a cis woman I would be happy if this topic is brought up before a date so I wouldn't waste my time on a person who wants kids. This is important information and like being a trans may negatively affect relationship or even cause violence if hidden. The point is that not every interaction and flirtation has the aim of ending in a long-term relationship. There may not be "wasting time" if there's never an intention to spend more than a few moments with a person. This is what I'm saying about all of this rhetoric being removed from the realities of how real, actual people flirt and date. The idea that every single sexual or romantic interaction has to be primed for if it would eventually lead to marriage and decades together is just silly and not how 99% of people approach sex and love. It's especially silly of an idea when we see the rhetoric that trans people have to disclose their identities applied to cases where they get cat-called on the street. Accepting a compliment from a stranger on the street would not be presumed to result in a long-term relationship for anyone besides trans women and so the idea that trans women must constantly disclose their transness or be deemed dishonest feels like it veers into transphobia. Also it's hard to ignore how the assertion that it's a duty for trans people to immediately reveal their transness emboldens people to often forcibly out trans people. See cases where a cishet man will flirt with a trans woman in public and ~concerned~ bystanders will out her, ironically endangering her more than anything, when she didn't owe that person anything, especially if they initiated their flirting with her. Edited June 12, 2022 by Communion
xclusivestylesz Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 I'm confused why you wouldn't disclose this from the get go. If you're trans and plan on dating someone then it's pretty much an obligation and should be something discussed before anything. Wouldn't the other person find out as soon as the clothes come off?
mxoonlight Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 The fixation that gay men have on belittling and demeaning trans people is really weird. It's not getting your dick sucked nor is it increasing your social capital. Please grow up.
loveisdead9582 Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 Yes. I don’t think that “owe” is the right word here but yeah. If you want to build a relationship that’s based on trust and honesty, you might want to start with a pretty basic fact about yourself that could possibly hinder your ability to have children in the future. For trans women, if you haven’t gone through the bottom surgery and they go home with a guy… if unfortunately could lead to a violent encounter if they withheld that bit of info.
Frozen99 Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 ofc they should, how can you keep such secret away from your partner? it's delicate but it can be a deal-breaker and the other person deserves a chance to decide on their own if they're ok with the situation
305 Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 54 minutes ago, mxoonlight said: The fixation that gay men have on belittling and demeaning trans people is really weird. It's not getting your dick sucked nor is it increasing your social capital. Please grow up. Why are you correlating disclosing that you're trans as belittling?
Material Girl Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 I mean it’s something that would eventually come out in the relationship so it seems like sooner rather than later is the way to do it
Richie.Valdez Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 Yes, transparency is key is every relationship
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