poll Bigger group: aespa vs Stray Kids

[Ubermensch]

1 hour ago, Pluto6 said:

A lot of SKZ stans aren't even Kpop stans, so their audiences don't really overlap with aespa's in general as you would think, so that statement is not really true. SKZ have managed to build a niche fanbase outside of the Kpop space etc., so a lot of these people wouldn't know about aespa's music either. 
 

Anyways, here's a clip of when SKZ headlined LOLAPLOOZA Paris where over 60K people were singing along to one of SKZ's b-sides  

 

If somebody is buying light sticks and photocards and following sns updates, they're a kpop fan. This style of group often gets solo stans or are a stepping stone into becoming a kpop fan, but that doesn't mean their fans aren't kpop fans. BTS and Super Junior fans before Stays all made these same claims about being different than kpop fans or about having their own genre of music/appeal. In every case its just an excuse to distract from the fact that the musical demand isn't there.

 

It's okay if you and others enjoy their music, if Hatsune Miku can get stans so can SKZ. But that doesn't mean Hatsune Miku is an artist that people take seriously, she's a brand that sells merchandise to otakus.

Edited March 5 by Ubermensch

[Harrier]

SKZ are definitely bigger but voted Aespa anyway because they easily clear SKZ in every department except dancing and number of dicks in the group 

[Pluto6]

On 3/5/2025 at 6:10 AM, Ubermensch said:

If somebody is buying light sticks and photocards and following sns updates, they're a kpop fan. This style of group often gets solo stans or are a stepping stone into becoming a kpop fan, but that doesn't mean their fans aren't kpop fans.

The thing is that that a lot of STAYs that I have encountered aren't really listening to other Kpop acts outside of SKZ and got introduced to Kpop through them, unlike

me who's a multi Kpop stan.
Like even when I observe STAYs that are in fanwars with Onces, and trying to come for TWICE legends legacy, I sometimes have to educate them quick, simply due to them not knowing enough about TWICE's career, success, legacy and achievements.

 

On 3/5/2025 at 6:10 AM, Ubermensch said:

BTS and Super Junior fans before Stays all made these same claims about being different than kpop fans or about having their own genre of music/appeal. In every case its just an excuse to distract from the fact that the musical demand isn't there.

Imagine saying that there isn't any musical demand for BTS aka the biggest Kpop act of all time  This is why I can't take this forum seriously sometimes, and I'm not even an ARMY.

 

Super Junior literally helped contributing and building the loyal SM company stans, that SM acts still benefit from.

 

Both Super Junior and BTS were some of the most mainstream male groups in their generations across the Kpop audience.

 

SKZ are a nichè within the Kpop audience, like basically a nichè within a nichè, and craved their own path by not relying on the typical markets for Kpop acts. Just look at the attitude people have about SKZ in here, with you being a Kpop stan for years and still having a hard time understanding why SKZ are in the same conversation as aespa or even bigger than aespa.

 

On 3/5/2025 at 6:10 AM, Ubermensch said:

It's okay if you and others enjoy their music, if Hatsune Miku can get stans so can SKZ. But that doesn't mean Hatsune Miku is an artist that people take seriously, she's a brand that sells merchandise to otakus.

It's obvious that you're trying to cope by creating a false narrative about SKZ's popularity, and claiming that it's only due to them being able to sell merchandise. Like I don't know what image you have of bgs, but that image doesn't fit with SKZ. I feel like the image you're trying to portray SKZ as fits more with a groups like ZEROBASEONE or something, who are more known for their fanservice and acting gay and selling photocards, rather  than people actually listening to their music.

 

I think you have to get into SKZ and know the atmosphere within the fandom, cause music is the most discussed topic when it comes to SKZ. They constantly release music outside of comebacks, such as covers, mixtapes on YouTube that will later be on compilation albums, knowledge and behind the scenes footage of the music they create etc.

 

The only people who constantly have something negative to say about SKZ, are butt hurt Kpop stans who are salty that they managed to become this huge despite being one of the most experimental groups in Kpop history, which NCT failed to be.

 

And yes, SKZ are artists who pioneered their own sound and genre that they themselves created and are basically the least manufactured Kpop act in history, with them creating their own logo, the leader handpicking the members himself etc. Whether you or other Kpop stans like their art or not, that's on y'all, but that doesn't take anything away from their talents and what they have created 

 

On 3/5/2025 at 12:44 PM, Harrier said:

SKZ are definitely bigger but voted Aespa anyway because they easily clear SKZ in every department except dancing and number of dicks in the group 

SKZ are better dancers, they are also better rappers, better performers who rarely lip syncs, better chemistry as a group, better overall discography (personally).

 

Though aespa have them beat on studio vocals, too bad they barely sing live though 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 8 by Pluto6

[illia]

This thread is still going? 

[VelvetCrush]

Stray Kids is literally the 3rd biggest kpop group ever. They only lose to BTS and Blackpink. Saying this as someone who doesn't like a single song of their and stans TWICE who also fights for the 3rd biggest kpop group title with them.

[Eternium]

22 hours ago, Ubermensch said:

I knew you knew a little too much about the industry. One of the few users to ever make me look foolish in an argument. 

I may have been wrong about G-Dragon so we're even  

21 hours ago, Pluto6 said:

It was their 1st world tour that got cut short due to Covid not their 2nd, their 2nd world tour is the "Maniac Tour" which grossed $71.5M and sold 776k tickets across 42 shows.

Like Google is right there, why are you lying  aespa are nowhere near close to SKZ at the same point in their career in touring. 

 

aespa are nowhere near SKZ in touring at the same time in their career, when SKZ  already had a sold out dome tour in their 5th year. By that time from their 2nd world tour and dome tour combined SKZ had in their 5th year at least grossed $93M in-person and $102M online included in their 5th year

 

SKZ in their 5th year  in 2023 exactly 2 years ago was charting on Spotify Artist Daily

While aespa today in their 5th year are still N/A on the chart, while SKZ has never left the chart. 

As you can see, SKZ does not only have more streams than aespa because they debuted before them, but because people have always listened to their discography more than aespa's even at the same point in their careers. 

 

And it might seem like aespa are growing quickly compared to SKZ when you compare first years, since SKZ had a slower start in their first 2 years, but  doesn't mean aespa will surpass them in the future. Cause SKZ are growing even more than aespa each year as well. Some groups become big a little bit later just look at BTS for example. By your logic, aespa will indeed surpass SKZ's total numbers in the future, which I highly doubt they will. 

 

 

Girl, literally every fandom uses stationhead including aespa fans.

 

Like don't get me started how Whiplash debuted with 515K streams from Thailand alone out of the total 2,5M debut streams when the 15th song on Spotify Thailand has like less than 50K streams or something.

 

Like if anything is suspicious it's this. 

 

The way you just completely ignore all the info and stats that I have posted clearly showing how much bigger SKZ are compared to aespa and how more global they are bigger reach, like give it up Deelishis 

 

JYP labels their second outing as their first world tour, but the Unveil tour went to four continents. It was a world tour, sis. District 9 was canceled under special circumstances, but Aespa also missed out on their early touring possibilities because of COVID. SKZ didn't start their third world tour, Maniac, until 1,640 days in. Aespa are only at 1,569 days and they are just finishing their second outing. Here's their reported gross at that same time:

 

- SKZ:

I AM…Tour - $729,771

District 9 - $3,984,422

 

- Aespa

Hyper Line - $4,725,233

Parallel Line - $19,083,589*

 

Stray Kids's debut date was 3/25/18, but their first digital release was on 11/1/17. Aespa's first release was 11/17/20. You're using misleading language to paint where they were at the same point in their careers. 3/2/23 was 1,947 days into SKZ's career. Aespa are only at 1,567 days. SKZ literally had two "pre-debut" title tracks and an entire EP that you're not taking into account.
 

Aespa are significantly ahead of SKZ at the same point in time. Whiplash, Supernova and Drama have outperformed every SKZ song to date on Apple Music and the Billboard Global 200. Aespa at 1,567 days are at 3.7B streams on Spotify and SKZ didn't hit 3B until 1,604 days. Aespa are ahead on Spotify with fewer releases and fewer title tracks. Their career total streams are higher as of today than SKZ's on platforms like Melon, Genie, Flo and Naver.

 

The reason ChartMasters's streaming tool doesn't work is because SKZ are a Stationhead heavy group. Aespa's global Stationhead struggles to get to 200 users. SKZ's is constantly well over 1,000 (1.11k as of writing). They apply a formula to all artists and so artists who are more popular on Spotify than other metrics see a much higher estimate. Likewise, artists popular on Apple Music, etc. see a lower estimate.

 

I can't say for certainty that Aespa will surpass SKZ's overall numbers, but I can say that they are already higher now despite SKZ having a massive fanbase backing them with Stationhead. Like, Supernova is already outpacing every SKZ song ever on streams. I think you genuinely have no idea how good Aespa's numbers are  

[Pluto6]

14 hours ago, Eternium said:

JYP labels their second outing as their first world tour, but the Unveil tour went to four continents. It was a world tour, sis. District 9 was canceled under special circumstances, but Aespa also missed out on their early touring possibilities because of COVID. SKZ didn't start their third world tour, Maniac, until 1,640 days in. Aespa are only at 1,569 days and they are just finishing their second outing. Here's their reported gross at that same time:

 

- SKZ:

I AM…Tour - $729,771

District 9 - $3,984,422

 

- Aespa

Hyper Line - $4,725,233

Parallel Line - $19,083,589*

 

Stray Kids's debut date was 3/25/18, but their first digital release was on 11/1/17. Aespa's first release was 11/17/20. You're using misleading language to paint where they were at the same point in their careers. 3/2/23 was 1,947 days into SKZ's career. Aespa are only at 1,567 days. SKZ literally had two "pre-debut" title tracks and an entire EP that you're not taking into account.
 

Aespa are significantly ahead of SKZ at the same point in time. Whiplash, Supernova and Drama have outperformed every SKZ song to date on Apple Music and the Billboard Global 200. Aespa at 1,567 days are at 3.7B streams on Spotify and SKZ didn't hit 3B until 1,604 days. Aespa are ahead on Spotify with fewer releases and fewer title tracks. Their career total streams are higher as of today than SKZ's on platforms like Melon, Genie, Flo and Naver.

 

The reason ChartMasters's streaming tool doesn't work is because SKZ are a Stationhead heavy group. Aespa's global Stationhead struggles to get to 200 users. SKZ's is constantly well over 1,000 (1.11k as of writing). They apply a formula to all artists and so artists who are more popular on Spotify than other metrics see a much higher estimate. Likewise, artists popular on Apple Music, etc. see a lower estimate.

 

I can't say for certainty that Aespa will surpass SKZ's overall numbers, but I can say that they are already higher now despite SKZ having a massive fanbase backing them with Stationhead. Like, Supernova is already outpacing every SKZ song ever on streams. I think you genuinely have no idea how good Aespa's numbers are  

Let's address a few things:

 

First of all, JYP officially labeled "District 9: Unlock" as their first world tour because it was meant to be a true world tour across several continents, unlike the "Unveil Tour" which was a showcase tour with limited stops and performances. While "Unveil" went to a few continents, it was far from the scale of a proper world tour and mainly served as a small showcase tour, which is why it's not counted the same way. SKZ went on "District 9 tour," just 2 months after they finished their "Unveiled tour". 

 

As mentioned, the "District 9: Unlock" tour was canceled due to COVID, but it's important to recognize that even with that setback, Stray Kids' "Maniac Tour" (their 2nd world tour) was very successful, grossing over $71 million across 42 shows. Aespa has not come close to these numbers yet overall, despite having 2 tours.

 

Now, comparing SKZ's and aespa's tours during the same points in their careers is irrelevant without context. SKZ was halted by the pandemic in their most crucial early years of touring, and yet, after their world tour resumed post-pandemic, their numbers quickly outpaced aespa's. SKZ has had a steady, organic rise in global reach, whereas aespa has had shorter periods to perform. Additionally, aespa benefitted from post-pandemic restrictions being lifted by the time they started touring, while SKZ lost crucial momentum early on.

 

As for streaming, SKZ's numbers continue to rise across platforms like Spotify, but they also excel across other key metrics like album sales, YouTube, and social media presence. Aespa's numbers may be impressive on specific platforms, but they are nowhere near Stray Kids' overall dominance. SKZ surpassed 21 billion streams across all platforms, which is more than double of aespa's total, and they are charting globally across 25+ countries, whereas aespa's reach is comparatively limited and local. 

 

Let's not forget that some groups take longer to hit their peak. Just because aespa might have outpaced certain metrics in their first few years doesn't guarantee they'll continue surpassing SKZ in the long run. For example, look at IVE's first to 2 years (2021-2013), where they outperformed both aespa and SKZ's first 2 years, becoming one of the fastest-rising 4th-gen groups in terms of charting and global visibility. Yet, neither aespa nor SKZ were at their peak that early, and now IVE has seen a decrease while SKZ is firmly established as a dominant force. If we go by your logic, then IVE should be on their way to surpass both SKZ and aespa right now, but we both know that isn't the case. Growth patterns differ from group to group, and it's not uncommon for acts to peak at different times.

 

 

The key point is SKZ's versatility as both album and touring artists. They are consistently building a loyal, engaged fanbase that listens to their entire discography, not just title tracks. Meanwhile, aespa's stronger focus on singles doesn't provide the same long-term engagement and overall presence globally.

 

If we're talking overall engagement, SKZ is charting on a much broader global scale across traditional metrics and are clearly ahead in key markets like Japan, North America, Europe, Oceania, Latin America and Asia (except Korea and SEA). Aespa simply hasn't reached that level of global reach and engagement. 

 

In the end, it's not even about "who's ahead at X point in time," because SKZ's growth has been steadily exponential, and their accomplishments speak for themselves across numerous metrics, be it charting, touring, streaming, or overall presence. The numbers are there, and they're not in aespa's favor when looking at the global impact and popularity compared to SKZ.

 

And also, I came across a post on Twitter comparing SKZ, aespa, NewJeans, and IVE on Google Trends worldwide over the past 12 months, and the gap between SKZ and the others is really clear. Like you can clearly see the difference in overall demand between SKZ and aespa with SKZ stomping clearly  

Edited March 6 by Pluto6

[Pluto6]

14 hours ago, VelvetCrush said:

Stray Kids is literally the 3rd biggest kpop group ever. They only lose to BTS and Blackpink. Saying this as someone who doesn't like a single song of their and stans TWICE who also fights for the 3rd biggest kpop group title with them.

JYP really won with SKZ and TWICE with them being the 3rd and 4th biggest Kpop acts, with SKZ being the 2nd biggest Kpop bg and TWICE being the 2nd biggest Kpop gg of all time 

Edited March 6 by Pluto6

[Eternium]

9 hours ago, Pluto6 said:

Let's address a few things:

 

First of all, JYP officially labeled "District 9: Unlock" as their first world tour because it was meant to be a true world tour across several continents, unlike the "Unveil Tour" which was a showcase tour with limited stops and performances. While "Unveil" went to a few continents, it was far from the scale of a proper world tour and mainly served as a small showcase tour, which is why it's not counted the same way. SKZ went on "District 9 tour," just 2 months after they finished their "Unveiled tour". 

 

As mentioned, the "District 9: Unlock" tour was canceled due to COVID, but it's important to recognize that even with that setback, Stray Kids' "Maniac Tour" (their 2nd world tour) was very successful, grossing over $71 million across 42 shows. Aespa has not come close to these numbers yet overall, despite having 2 tours.

 

Now, comparing SKZ's and aespa's tours during the same points in their careers is irrelevant without context. SKZ was halted by the pandemic in their most crucial early years of touring, and yet, after their world tour resumed post-pandemic, their numbers quickly outpaced aespa's. SKZ has had a steady, organic rise in global reach, whereas aespa has had shorter periods to perform. Additionally, aespa benefitted from post-pandemic restrictions being lifted by the time they started touring, while SKZ lost crucial momentum early on.

 

As for streaming, SKZ's numbers continue to rise across platforms like Spotify, but they also excel across other key metrics like album sales, YouTube, and social media presence. Aespa's numbers may be impressive on specific platforms, but they are nowhere near Stray Kids' overall dominance. SKZ surpassed 21 billion streams across all platforms, which is more than double of aespa's total, and they are charting globally across 25+ countries, whereas aespa's reach is comparatively limited and local. 

 

Let's not forget that some groups take longer to hit their peak. Just because aespa might have outpaced certain metrics in their first few years doesn't guarantee they'll continue surpassing SKZ in the long run. For example, look at IVE's first to 2 years (2021-2013), where they outperformed both aespa and SKZ's first 2 years, becoming one of the fastest-rising 4th-gen groups in terms of charting and global visibility. Yet, neither aespa nor SKZ were at their peak that early, and now IVE has seen a decrease while SKZ is firmly established as a dominant force. If we go by your logic, then IVE should be on their way to surpass both SKZ and aespa right now, but we both know that isn't the case. Growth patterns differ from group to group, and it's not uncommon for acts to peak at different times.

 

 

The key point is SKZ's versatility as both album and touring artists. They are consistently building a loyal, engaged fanbase that listens to their entire discography, not just title tracks. Meanwhile, aespa's stronger focus on singles doesn't provide the same long-term engagement and overall presence globally.

 

If we're talking overall engagement, SKZ is charting on a much broader global scale across traditional metrics and are clearly ahead in key markets like Japan, North America, Europe, Oceania, Latin America and Asia (except Korea and SEA). Aespa simply hasn't reached that level of global reach and engagement. 

 

In the end, it's not even about "who's ahead at X point in time," because SKZ's growth has been steadily exponential, and their accomplishments speak for themselves across numerous metrics, be it charting, touring, streaming, or overall presence. The numbers are there, and they're not in aespa's favor when looking at the global impact and popularity compared to SKZ.

 

And also, I came across a post on Twitter comparing SKZ, aespa, NewJeans, and IVE on Google Trends worldwide over the past 12 months, and the gap between SKZ and the others is really clear. Like you can clearly see the difference in overall demand between SKZ and aespa with SKZ stomping clearly  

The Unveil Tour was labeled a showcase tour, but that doesn't change that it was indeed a world tour, too. They performed 15+ songs on the tour. Just because it didn't pull massive numbers doesn't mean you get to exclude it, sis.  

 

SKZ's third tour, Maniac, grossed $62.7M. You're including $8.8M in online viewership to inflate touring gross numbers. SKZ hit $62.7M on the Maniac Tour after 1,978 days of career. Aespa's first tour and second tour combined have potentially outgrossed that. I've only been posting reported numbers in this thread which is barely a third of Aespa's shows, but Aespa's Parallel Line has 43 shows and is over 99% sold out. Hyper Line had 31 shows. I think you should look into Aespa's numbers a little bit more before claiming they're flops.

 

21 billion streams is not "more than double" Aespa's total streams. They surpassed 5B on YouTube Music in January, 1.4B on Melon, 3.7B on Spotify, 400M on Genie, etc. That alone is 10.5B streams. They have months at #1 on Naver and Flo and they're one of the most successful K-pop groups on Apple Music. You just don't seem familiar with their numbers at all.

 

SKZ's B-sides have higher Spotify streams for three reasons: they've been around 4 more years, they have over 150% of the playlisting Aespa has (65.1M reach vs. 40.6M) and their fanbase used Stationhead more heavily. It's the same reason they can get quick one week entries in so many global charts. But the difference is Aespa's songs have lasting power because they have listeners outside of their fanbase (which is why Aespa have more monthly listeners despite lower playlist reach). Whiplash has more than doubled any SKZ song on the Global 200. 
 

Aespa are also constantly increasing with every release. You have this weird excuse that SKZ were flops for the early parts of their career, but that doesn't make them look bigger. They had twice the content Aespa has but less success. We'll see if Aespa just randomly falls off, but as of now, their streaming power and public popularity has grown every year. 

8 hours ago, Pluto6 said:

JYP really won with SKZ and TWICE with them being the 3rd and 4th biggest Kpop acts, with SKZ being the 2nd biggest Kpop bg and TWICE being the 2nd biggest Kpop gg of all time 

Seventeen have sold 41M albums and are the #1 boy group on Circle of all-time. They are definitely #2 in terms of pure commercial success after BTS.

[Pluto6]

12 hours ago, Eternium said:

The Unveil Tour was labeled a showcase tour, but that doesn't change that it was indeed a world tour, too. They performed 15+ songs on the tour. Just because it didn't pull massive numbers doesn't mean you get to exclude it, sis.  

 

SKZ's third tour, Maniac, grossed $62.7M. You're including $8.8M in online viewership to inflate touring gross numbers. SKZ hit $62.7M on the Maniac Tour after 1,978 days of career. Aespa's first tour and second tour combined have potentially outgrossed that. I've only been posting reported numbers in this thread which is barely a third of Aespa's shows, but Aespa's Parallel Line has 43 shows and is over 99% sold out. Hyper Line had 31 shows. I think you should look into Aespa's numbers a little bit more before claiming they're flops.

 

21 billion streams is not "more than double" Aespa's total streams. They surpassed 5B on YouTube Music in January, 1.4B on Melon, 3.7B on Spotify, 400M on Genie, etc. That alone is 10.5B streams. They have months at #1 on Naver and Flo and they're one of the most successful K-pop groups on Apple Music. You just don't seem familiar with their numbers at all.

 

SKZ's B-sides have higher Spotify streams for three reasons: they've been around 4 more years, they have over 150% of the playlisting Aespa has (65.1M reach vs. 40.6M) and their fanbase used Stationhead more heavily. It's the same reason they can get quick one week entries in so many global charts. But the difference is Aespa's songs have lasting power because they have listeners outside of their fanbase (which is why Aespa have more monthly listeners despite lower playlist reach). Whiplash has more than doubled any SKZ song on the Global 200. 
 

Aespa are also constantly increasing with every release. You have this weird excuse that SKZ were flops for the early parts of their career, but that doesn't make them look bigger. They had twice the content Aespa has but less success. We'll see if Aespa just randomly falls off, but as of now, their streaming power and public popularity has grown every year. 

First, while the Unveil tour may have gone to multiple continents and included a full setlist, it was primarily promoted as a showcase tour. This is important context because showcase tours tend to have a different purpose and scale compared to official world tours. They are typically meant for smaller performances aimed at promoting a group in various regions. The scale, ticketing, and venues are often more modest compared to later world tours, which means it's fair to differentiate it from larger tours like the Maniac or District 9: Unlock tours.

 

Regarding SKZ's tour numbers, including online viewership is valid when discussing total revenue because many K-pop groups, especially during COVID-19, utilized virtual concerts to maintain engagement with their global audience. Ignoring this would be like leaving out a significant aspect of how the industry adapted during that period.

 

The Unveil Tour and the I Am Tour by SKZ actually took place within the same period, both occurring in the span of 13 months, with both the "Unveil Tour" in and the "I Am Tour" being in 2019. If you look at it from a timing and demand perspective, JYP could have easily branded them as one tour instead of two separate ones. They were both part of the same early promotional phase for the group. The "UNVEIL Tour" had 13 shows and District 9 tour had 10 shows, which is a total of 23 shows across two continents in the span of just over a year.

 

Compare that to aespa's first and second world tours post-COVID, their "Hyper Line" tour had 31 shows, and their "Parallel Line" tour has 43 shows (74 shows combined). This is a much larger scale, but keep in mind, Aespa had more time to build their fanbase and prepare for their first official world tour, which is 2 years and 3 months after their debut. Meanwhile, SKZ were put into their Unveil showcase tour less than 10 months after their debut, before they had the chance to build a solid international fanbase or even a large discography. This difference in the timeline means that Aespa had a stronger foundation to pull from when they began their large-scale world tours, whereas SKZ's early tours were more experimental showcases aimed at introducing the group to a global audience.

 

In addition, SKZ's first two tours were in the pre-COVID era, when K-pop's global touring infrastructure wasn't as evolved as it is now. Post-COVID, the K-pop industry has exploded even more globally, giving groups like aespa a much bigger platform and higher demand for touring. This shift in the landscape after COVID-19 is something you need to consider when comparing their tour sizes. SKZ earlier tours were smaller because the global appeal for K-pop was still growing, whereas Aespa is benefiting from a much more developed K-pop touring industry. 

 

Ultimately, the comparison between SKZ and Aespa's touring numbers at this point in time doesn't tell the full story because the context in which each group is touring is vastly different. SKZ started touring much earlier in their career and had less time to build momentum before being thrown into the touring scene, while aespa's tours were launched with more buildup and stronger initial demand.

 

But looking at SKZ numbers now, good luck to aespa in surpassing their tour I guess:

[Pluto6]

13 hours ago, Eternium said:

21 billion streams is not "more than double" Aespa's total streams. They surpassed 5B on YouTube Music in January, 1.4B on Melon, 3.7B on Spotify, 400M on Genie, etc. That alone is 10.5B streams. They have months at #1 on Naver and Flo and they're one of the most successful K-pop groups on Apple Music. You just don't seem familiar with their numbers at all.

Well i just went based on Chartmasters. But that also means that SKZ's numbers are higher  than what Chartmasters is saying, and that the gap between SKZ and aepsa is still very big. 

 

13 hours ago, Eternium said:

SKZ's B-sides have higher Spotify streams for three reasons: they've been around 4 more years, they have over 150% of the playlisting Aespa has (65.1M reach vs. 40.6M) and their fanbase used Stationhead more heavily. It's the same reason they can get quick one week entries in so many global charts. But the difference is Aespa's songs have lasting power because they have listeners outside of their fanbase (which is why Aespa have more monthly listeners despite lower playlist reach). Whiplash has more than doubled any SKZ song on the Global 200. 

In what universe has SKZ been around for 4 years more than aespa  No JYP act was even on Spotify until 2018  

 

13 hours ago, Eternium said:

Aespa are also constantly increasing with every release. You have this weird excuse that SKZ were flops for the early parts of their career, but that doesn't make them look bigger. They had twice the content Aespa has but less success. We'll see if Aespa just randomly falls off, but as of now, their streaming power and public popularity has grown every year. 

Cause they literally were especially for Big 3 standards  You're constantly making excuses and holding onto those early years of SKZ for your dear life, cause you know aespa won't be able to compete with SKZ otherwise. SKZ didn't do big numbers until 2020 anyways, so you constantly bringing up their pre- 2020 numbers is kinda irrelevant, cause aespa won't be able to surpass SKZ's present numbers anyways. 

 

You also can't ignore that some groups hit their peak later on. While Aespa may be ahead in certain metrics at the same point in time, that doesn't guarantee they'll maintain that lead in the long term. K-pop groups grow at different rates and peak at different times. Stray Kids' success was built more steadily over time with them now being the 3rd biggest Kpop globally only behind BTS and BP.

 

13 hours ago, Eternium said:

Seventeen have sold 41M albums and are the #1 boy group on Circle of all-time. They are definitely #2 in terms of pure commercial success after BTS.

SVT are not bigger than SKZ, even you know that 

 

Edited March 7 by Pluto6

[superben]

Stray Kids obviously. It's not even a competition.

 

 

[Eternium]

So, in summation, here are our arguments:

 

@Pluto6:

1. Stray Kids are bigger in their overall careers.

2. Stray Kids are currently bigger.

3. Stray Kids struggled for their first few years, but then took off. You can't just assume Aespa will continue growing.

4. Stray Kids have charted in more countries.

5. Stray Kids have better streams for their B-sides.

 

@Eternium:

1. Aespa are significantly ahead of Stray Kids in touring and streams at the same time in their career.

2. Aespa have spent more weeks on charts and their global single success on the Billboard Global 200 already dwarfs Stray Kids' entire career.

3. Aespa are growing exponentially on every streaming platform yearly.

4. Aespa are already outperforming SKZ on Apple Music, Melon, YouTube Music, Naver, etc.

5. Aespa's streams come from outside of Stationhead and are less-fanbase driven, signified that even with less than half as many daily streams and 66% of SKZ's playlist reach, Aespa have more monthly listeners. 
 

Did I miss anything? Can we move on to stanning Yeji or do we want to continue fighting?

[Hyune]

Ok so Stray kids is bigger let's move now

 

 

 

/Endthread 

[Pluto6]

9 hours ago, Eternium said:

Aespa are already outperforming SKZ on Apple Music, Melon, YouTube Music, Naver, etc.

Not the YouTube Music sneak, when SKZ are still way ahead of aespa on YouTube in general, despite aespa being the Kpop act with those most inflated numbers on the platform until BABYMONSTER took their crown. They were literally nicknamed "adspa" for that reason. 

 

--------------------

 

Anyways, let me update the summary: 

 

aespa:

• aespa are significantly bigger than SKZ in Korea, and are stomping them on the charts over there. 
• aespa are also arguably bigger than SKZ in China and most SEA countries
• aespa's first 2 years are bigger than SKZ's first 2 years

 

SKZ:

• SKZ are significantly bigger than aespa on streaming, and have more streams on Spotify alone, than aespa have on every platform combined.
• SKZ are significantly bigger than aespa on touring, and will have the most attended Kpop tour of all time according to estimates. 
• SKZ are significantly bigger than aespa on sales and are the 3rd best selling Kpop act of all time on both Circle and Hanteo. 
• SKZ are significantly bigger than aespa on global charting
• SKZ are significantly bigger than aespa on every social media platform. 
• SKZ have a significantly bigger fanbase than aespa. 
• SKZ are still growing significantly every year, and have arguably surpassed TWICE globally or they are on the same tier at least.
• SKZ are bigger than aespa almost everywhere globally

 

Though just because SKZ are bigger than aespa overall, that doesn't take anything away from aespa, who are also very successful and are arguably the 2nd biggest 4th gen group after SKZ right now. /Endthread

 

Edited March 9 by Pluto6

[newaespa]

mess at this still ongoing

 

Anyway, Karina's solo smash UP, just hit 100mil streams on spotify  

[Eternium]

12 hours ago, Pluto6 said:

Not the YouTube Music sneak, when SKZ are still way ahead of aespa on YouTube in general, despite aespa being the Kpop act with those most inflated numbers on the platform until BABYMONSTER took their crown. They were literally nicknamed "adspa" for that reason. 

 

--------------------

 

Anyways, let me update the summary: 

 

aespa:

• aespa are significantly bigger than SKZ in Korea, and are stomping them on the charts over there. 
• aespa are also arguably bigger than SKZ in China and most SEA countries
• aespa's first 2 years are bigger than SKZ's first 2 years

 

SKZ:

• SKZ are significantly bigger than aespa on streaming, and have more streams on Spotify alone, than aespa have on every platform combined.
• SKZ are significantly bigger than aespa on touring, and will have the most attended Kpop tour of all time according to estimates. 
• SKZ are significantly bigger than aespa on sales and are the 3rd best selling Kpop act of all time on both Circle and Hanteo. 
• SKZ are significantly bigger than aespa on global charting
• SKZ are significantly bigger than aespa on every social media platform. 
• SKZ have a significantly bigger fanbase than aespa. 
• SKZ are still growing significantly every year, and have arguably surpassed TWICE globally or they are on the same tier at least.
• SKZ are bigger than aespa almost everywhere globally

 

Though just because SKZ are bigger than aespa overall, that doesn't take anything away from aespa, who are also very successful and are arguably the 2nd biggest 4th gen group after SKZ right now. /Endthread

 

YouTube Music is the #1 platform in Asia. Aespa are dominating there, sis.

 

And nothing you said was able to refute what I said. Aespa are growing faster than SKZ did and they're ahead of them at the same point in their careers in terms of streams and touring. They also depend on a fanbase much less heavily and have bigger GP appeal, even when you compare Aespa in their fifth year to SKZ in their eighth.

 

As far as the last part, NewJeans are obviously the biggest fourth gen group. None of our faves can compare to them. SKZ have never had hits like TWICE and SVT so I don't see how they could hope to surpass them, either.

12 hours ago, Hyunnie said:

Ok so Stray kids is bigger let's move now

 

 

 

 

/Endthread 

Aren't you the girl that thought a Stray Kid was bigger than Karina and Wonyoung?

9 hours ago, newaespa said:

mess at this still ongoing

 

Anyway, Karina's solo smash UP, just hit 100mil streams on spotify  

Their 13th 100M+ track. Two more and they'll have just as many as SKZ, despite being out for half the time. 

[Hyune]

2 hours ago, Eternium said:

 

Aren't you the girl that thought a Stray Kid was bigger than Karina and Wonyoung?

. 

I see more Hybe about Hyunjin alone than those two.

 

 

I know im new to the fandom but I'm not blind. I get aespa is more loved on atrl but outside SKZ are much bigger. 

 

 

[Eternium]

48 minutes ago, Hyunnie said:

I see more Hybe about Hyunjin alone than those two.

 

 

I know im new to the fandom but I'm not blind. I get aespa is more loved on atrl but outside SKZ are much bigger. 

 

 

That would be because your timeline is curated to give you content based on what you like. You are clearly incredibly new to music in general  

 

Anyway, Karina's "Up" has spent more time in global charts than any SKZ song ever. She's also in the video for "Too Bad" by G-Dragon, which has outperformed every SKZ song. Hyunjin has never charted despite numerous attempts and multiple high-profile collabs. He's not even the most well-known out of that group, let alone anywhere near Jang Wonyoung's level. 

[newaespa]

lol saying Hyunjin is better than any aespa member is like saying 1 of the LMFAO member is bigger than BLACKPINK

[Papi Juancho]

Stray Kidz are doing stadiums in Latinamerica while Aespa can't even sell arenas, so... the boys 

[Pluto6]

20 hours ago, Eternium said:

YouTube Music is the #1 platform in Asia. Aespa are dominating there, sis.

 

And nothing you said was able to refute what I said. Aespa are growing faster than SKZ did and they're ahead of them at the same point in their careers in terms of streams and touring. They also depend on a fanbase much less heavily and have bigger GP appeal, even when you compare Aespa in their fifth year to SKZ in their eighth.

 

As far as the last part, NewJeans are obviously the biggest fourth gen group. None of our faves can compare to them. SKZ have never had hits like TWICE and SVT so I don't see how they could hope to surpass them, either.

Aren't you the girl that thought a Stray Kid was bigger than Karina and Wonyoung?

Their 13th 100M+ track. Two more and they'll have just as many as SKZ, despite being out for half the time. 

SKZ are undeniably bigger than aespa, and that's something you'll have to accept. No matter how much you try to argue in aespa's favor, it won't really change anything

 

[Mitsuki]

On 3/3/2025 at 9:49 AM, Pluto6 said:

In terms of global numbers:

 

Sales:

Stray Kids - 31M

aespa - 8,8M

 

Streams across all platforms:

Stray Kids - 21,5B

aespa - 9,2B

 

(Stray Kids have 10B streams from Spotify alone, which is more than aespa total numbers across all platforms (9,2B) such as Spotify + YouTube + Apple Music + MelOn etc. combined)

 

Social media followers (IG + Twitter + TikTok combined):

Stray Kids - 71M

aespa - 35,5M

 

Billboard 200 

Stray Kids - 6 consecutive #1 albums

aespa - highest peak #3 (almost 3 years ago)

 

Billboard Hot 100

Stray Kids - 3 entries (highest peak #49)

aespa - 0 entries (not even bubbling under)

 

RIAA certifications 

Stray Kids - 8

aespa - 0

 

Charting in most countries across the world (both albums and singles) = Stray Kids

 

Tour gross: 

 

Stray Kids:

 

aespa:

 

But sure, let's say aespa are bigger than Stray Kids internationally 

 

The discussion should've ended here idk why It continued 

[Pluto6]

23 minutes ago, Mitsuki said:

The discussion should've ended here idk why It continued 

Because a user keeps comparing SKZ's early years to their favorite group's early years in an attempt to make their favorite group seem bigger and more successful 

 

Edited March 10 by Pluto6

[Eternium]

49 minutes ago, Mitsuki said:

The discussion should've ended here idk why It continued 

Because the numbers were proven wrong multiple times over.

4 hours ago, Pluto6 said:

SKZ are undeniably bigger than aespa, and that's something you'll have to accept. No matter how much you try to argue in aespa's favor, it won't really change anything

 

 

On 3/4/2025 at 6:32 PM, Eternium said:

Nobody's arguing that SKZ after 7 years don't have more streams than Aespa after 4 years. What we're arguing is that Aespa after 4 years has significantly more streams than SKZ did at the same point in time and they're growing more quickly, despite not having a sizable fanbase using Stationhead.

 

As far as global charting, I'm aware SKZ's fans use Stationhead to get quick one week peaks in other countries. It's no different than "Who" by Jimin. But Aespa outlasts that because their songs stay on charts for significant periods. 
 

Aespa are at 74 weeks on the Billboard Global 200 (as of 9/24/24 - meaning they've added at least 19 weeks since then). Aespa have 880 weeks on the Circle digital charts. Stray Kids do well for one week on the Billboard Global 200 and then crater. Aespa's 2024 singles charting total outdid SKZ's entire career. SKZ don't have a song with even 10 weeks on the Global 200  
 

Here's their Billboard Global 200 Entries:

#8. Whiplash (19 Weeks & Charting)

Supernova (25 weeks)

Armageddon (13 weeks)

 

 

SKZ's first world tour was their Unveil Tour. It has a reported gross of $770k. Their second would tour got cut short due to COVID, but it was grossing less than Synk Hyper Line. Aespa's first global tour outgrossed SKZ's first two global tours and Aespa's gross at 4 years in is ahead of where SKZ's gross was 6 years in to their career.

This was all that needed to be said. My faves are significantly ahead of yours at 4 years in and are growing at a significant rate. Go ahead and prove me wrong. Post your faves on Spotify after 1,574 days. Let me know what your faves grossed on tour after 1,574 days. 
 

On top of that, Supernova is the biggest global hit from either group. The second biggest? Whiplash. The third biggest? Armageddon. 
 

I'll just let it go and wish your faves luck that their new single this month can finally become their first to surpass Armageddon