poll Bigger group: aespa vs Stray Kids

[Ubermensch]

30 minutes ago, Pluto6 said:

Not my fault that people in here aren't objective

No they are capable of objectivity you just value how much money a brand generates over the success of actual music. For the rest of us, musicians are ranked on the consumption/enjoyment of their songs, not how fun it is to gawk at them or brag about their stats on the Internet. General public opinion/reception, singles charting, accounting for days since debut, etc, are all objective measures, since they can be quantified. If we want to look at MUSIC on this MUSIC FORUM when discussing SINGERS, rather than debating photocard sales and how many teenage girls will spend their parents money to stare at them like a circus attraction, aespa cooks noise twinks 10 times out of 10, regardless of what corporatized brand of noise twinks we're comparing them to.  Photocard sales are an objective measure too, we just don't care because it says nothing about the music. 

Edited March 3 by Ubermensch

[charot]

Bigger fandom: Stray Kids

More mainstream: Aespa

 

Boy groups always have bigger fandoms that's given while Aespa has the gp and is a household name in Korea.

 

Karina alone is a bigger name than Stray Kids in Korea.

 

 

Edited March 3 by charot

[FlauntYourTeeth]

Aespa has more monthly listeners. They're bigger internationally

[FlauntYourTeeth]

8 minutes ago, charot said:

Bigger fandom: Stray Kids

More mainstream: Aespa

 

Boys groups always have bigger fandoms that's given while Aespa has the gp and is a household name in Korea.

 

 

This

[B-Luke]

Stray Kids is a much bigger name and pulls massive numbers globally. I don't think Aespa can compete now if we're talking quality that's a different question

[illia]

1 hour ago, Pluto6 said:

Not my fault that people in here aren't objective

And you're the face of objectivity here?

 

[Pluto6]

52 minutes ago, FlauntYourTeeth said:

Aespa has more monthly listeners. They're bigger internationally

In terms of global numbers:

 

Sales:

Stray Kids - 31M

aespa - 8,8M

 

Streams across all platforms:

Stray Kids - 21,5B

aespa - 9,2B

 

(Stray Kids have 10B streams from Spotify alone, which is more than aespa total numbers across all platforms (9,2B) such as Spotify + YouTube + Apple Music + MelOn etc. combined)

 

Social media followers (IG + Twitter + TikTok combined):

Stray Kids - 71M

aespa - 35,5M

 

Billboard 200 

Stray Kids - 6 consecutive #1 albums

aespa - highest peak #3 (almost 3 years ago)

 

Billboard Hot 100

Stray Kids - 3 entries (highest peak #49)

aespa - 0 entries (not even bubbling under)

 

RIAA certifications 

Stray Kids - 8

aespa - 0

 

Charting in most countries across the world (both albums and singles) = Stray Kids

 

Tour gross: 

 

Stray Kids:

 

aespa:

 

But sure, let's say aespa are bigger than Stray Kids internationally 

 

Edited March 3 by Pluto6

[Pluto6]

7 minutes ago, illia said:

And you're the face of objectivity here?

 

Saying aespa is bigger than SKZ is like saying Jojo's Bizarre Adventure is bigger than Naruto

[HarajukuPrincess]

On 3/2/2025 at 7:19 AM, Pluto6 said:

You constantly say that, but in what world does Changbin look like Shindong?? Changbin is literally bulky and muscular???

As much as I love him, 

 

it's Aespa 

[Hyune]

14 hours ago, Eternium said:

Karina and Wonyoung are in contention for the top 4th generation idols.

And stray kids has Hyunjin  who is one of the most popular 4th gen idols currently 

 

And fashion trend like he was the main event 

 

 

And even the other boys are doing there own thing for other big companies. 

 

I don't hear much about those two names you named.

 

 

[Lorenzo22]

hits: aespa by a landslide

albums: stray kids

touring: stray kids

 

i'd say overall stray kids is bigger but boy groups will always have the advantage even if girl groups have more gp recognition (in korea)

[gay interrupted]

16 hours ago, Hyunnie said:

And stray kids has Hyunjin  who is one of the most popular 4th gen idols currently 

 

And fashion trend like he was the main event 

 

 

And even the other boys are doing there own thing for other big companies. 

 

I don't hear much about those two names you named.

 

 

saying you don't hear about wonyoung or karina who literally become thee trending topic at any event they go to is crazy but sure 

[newaespa]

Bringing up Spotify numbers as if you didn't **** on BTS's fraud/bot numbers recently

[gay interrupted]

Stray kids definitely have the stronger fandom buying / touring power as they are an internationally focused boyband, but aespa are far more beloved by the general public in Asia. There's like no contest. Karina's unpromoted solo "Up" out charted anything stray kids has ever released in Korea.
 

Even with the handicaps Aespa has placed on them by SM in minimizing and or not setting them up for international success (I maintain one of the only reasons stray kids was even able to become so successful in the west is bc SM nuked NCT's rising international trajectory) their monthly listeners on Spotify are about the same. 

I don't really understand the reason for this poll? IMO stray kids makes terrible music but I'm not gonna sit here and act like they aren't successful. At the same time it's disingenuous to discount aespa's success just bc stray kids have the advantage of being a front loaded boy group. Aespa are critically acclaimed and have monster hits that are already cemented in South Korean history.  

Edited March 4 by gay interrupted

[muddysquirrel]

Aespa clearly.

[kellysclarkson]

Stray kids are bigger

[Eternium]

On 3/3/2025 at 5:42 AM, Pluto6 said:

Not my fault that people in here aren't objective

 

No one said anything about SKZ coming for Eminem or Jay-Z's wigs, but SKZ are indeed talented when it comes to rap especially Han and Changbin, and has gotten praised by rap fans who aren't even into Kpop who analyze and dissect their raps. Even big and known Hip-Hop producers like Metro Boomin has a connection to SKZ 

 

 

If anything, you are putting SKZ to a higher standard than your gg faves, cause you are literally questioning the rap skills of a group who has gotten praised for their skills by locals, and are known for WRITING AND PRODUCING their own songs and lyrics, and probably the least manufactured Kpop group in history. While you're simultaneously probably gagging at "idol rappers" like Irene, like the nerve 

You're a gay man who only listens to pop music like SNSD and Britney Spears. Of course you wouldn't understand SKZ's music cause either you get it or don't, but their music is probably not for you. But that doesn't take anything away from SKZ, so maybe you should present your opinions more as subjective instead of objective. Like there's a reason why SKZ are completely stomping aespa globally, and that's because there are people all over the world who seem to connect with their music etc. 

 

Even that can be debatable, since Hyunjin and Felix also exists who both have more IG followers than both, higher social media interactions, higher Google trends, bigger fanbases, though they are all top 4 among 4th generation idols. 

 

 

Anyways good luck to aespa in surpassing SKZ's tour gross, let's hope they surpass SKZ's 2nd world tour numbers first

I actually personally know Metro Boomin and that doesn't make me a good rapper. You'll notice I haven't once come for talent levels of SKZ, just the absolute lack of quality in their music. I actually love hip-hop and noise music, but SKZ are more on the NCT side of the spectrum than the Aespa side, and that's their problem.

 

I can't imagine why you'd want to bring up Britney Spears. She was a revolutionary artist who collaborated with the biggest names in production of our generation to shape the soundscape of today's climate. SKZ have done nothing of that sort. They are not even remotely qualified to be in a conversation with a music legend like Britney Spears.

 

Aespa have actually outcharted SKZ already globally. Their weeks on Circle and the Billboard Global 200 surpass SKZ's by a significant margin. One week Hot 100 placements aren't impressive compared to Aespa spending months on the BB Global 200. Whiplash is now at 19 weeks and still charting. It was Aespa's second biggest hit of 2024 and lasted more weeks than Chk Chk Boom and Walkin On Water combined.

 

As far as the touring shade, SKZ were at $5M reported gross after 5 years and two global tours. Aespa are already above $23M reported after just a bit over 4 years and two global tours and they have more boxscores incoming. If SKZ aren't touring flops, then neither are Aespa.

On 3/3/2025 at 6:06 AM, Ubermensch said:

No they are capable of objectivity you just value how much money a brand generates over the success of actual music. For the rest of us, musicians are ranked on the consumption/enjoyment of their songs, not how fun it is to gawk at them or brag about their stats on the Internet. General public opinion/reception, singles charting, accounting for days since debut, etc, are all objective measures, since they can be quantified. If we want to look at MUSIC on this MUSIC FORUM when discussing SINGERS, rather than debating photocard sales and how many teenage girls will spend their parents money to stare at them like a circus attraction, aespa cooks noise twinks 10 times out of 10, regardless of what corporatized brand of noise twinks we're comparing them to.  Photocard sales are an objective measure too, we just don't care because it says nothing about the music. 

This is the ultimate kryptonite to boygroup stans but so true. Boy groups thrive off of the parasocial relationship with fans and the hope they can date them. Girl groups thrive off of the quality of their music.

On 3/3/2025 at 6:49 AM, Pluto6 said:

In terms of global numbers:

 

Streams across all platforms:

Stray Kids - 21,5B

aespa - 9,2B

 

(Stray Kids have 10B streams from Spotify alone, which is more than aespa total numbers across all platforms (9,2B) such as Spotify + YouTube + Apple Music + MelOn etc. combined)

 

 

Before we go any further, can you tell me where you're getting these numbers?

 

Aespa's streams:

Spotify: 3.695B (3/2/25)

YouTube Music: 5.001 (1/29/25)

Melon: 1.353B (1/26/25)

 

That alone is 10.049B streams for Aespa. They have 400M+ on Genie, they're the best performing 4th gen group on Apple Music, they're have months of #1 placements on Flo and Naver, etc. 

[MusicFan98]

On 3/2/2025 at 8:49 AM, Odette Violet said:

watch them to come for you and scream "tHeY aRe GLoBaL"

 

 

Are They?? Because Last time I checked, SK's Chk chk boom had as many streams as Armageddon so...

[Pluto6]

6 hours ago, Eternium said:

I can't imagine why you'd want to bring up Britney Spears. She was a revolutionary artist who collaborated with the biggest names in production of our generation to shape the soundscape of today's climate. SKZ have done nothing of that sort. They are not even remotely qualified to be in a conversation with a music legend like Britney Spears.

Why are you comparing SKZ and Britney, when all I said was that you're probably not the target audience for SKZ's music, since you're musical preference probably fits more with SNSD and Britney's music??  If you really wanted and excuse to praise Britney, you could've just made a Britney appreciation thread, instead of taking this conversation somewhere else which si compeltely irrelvant in this discussion 

 

6 hours ago, Eternium said:

Before we go any further, can you tell me where you're getting these numbers?

 

Aespa's streams:

Spotify: 3.695B (3/2/25)

YouTube Music: 5.001 (1/29/25)

Melon: 1.353B (1/26/25)

 

That alone is 10.049B streams for Aespa. They have 400M+ on Genie, they're the best performing 4th gen group on Apple Music, they're have months of #1 placements on Flo and Naver, etc. 

Chartmaster.org, A lot of people is getting their numbers from that site.

 

But let's say that they didn't include all of aespa's numbers according to you, then the same would be for SKZ, and they would still have a very similar gap. 

 

6 hours ago, Eternium said:

Aespa have actually outcharted SKZ already globally. Their weeks on Circle and the Billboard Global 200 surpass SKZ's by a significant margin. One week Hot 100 placements aren't impressive compared to Aespa spending months on the BB Global 200. Whiplash is now at 19 weeks and still charting. It was Aespa's second biggest hit of 2024 and lasted more weeks than Chk Chk Boom and Walkin On Water combined.

If we look at each groups best performing songs last year:

 

Stray Kids - Chk Chk Boom:

Spoiler

Chart (2024)	Peak position
New Zealand Hot Singles (RMNZ)[72]	1
US World Digital Song Sales (Billboard)[83]	1
Singapore (RIAS)[76]	6
Malaysia International (RIM)[69]	8
Malaysia (Billboard)[68]	9
Global 200 (Billboard)[62]	10
Taiwan (Billboard)[79]	10
Japan Combined Singles (Oricon)[66]	11
Japan (Japan Hot 100)[65]	12
Netherlands (Global Top 40)[71]	13
Hong Kong (Billboard)[63]	14
MENA (IFPI)[70]	18
UAE (IFPI)[80]	18
South Korea (Circle)[12]	23
UK Singles (OCC)[81]	30
Greece International (IFPI)[61]	48
US Billboard Hot 100[82]	49
Poland (Polish Streaming Top 100)[74]	50
Lithuania (AGATA)[67]	53
Canada (Canadian Hot 100)[57]	55
Slovakia (Singles Digitál Top 100)[77]	57
Austria (Ö3 Austria Top 40)[56]	61
Germany (GfK)[60]	64
Ireland (IRMA)[64]	68
Czech Republic (Singles Digitál Top 100)[58]	79
Philippines (Philippines Hot 100)[73]	81
Australia (ARIA)[55]	85
Portugal (AFP)[75]	87
Switzerland (Schweizer Hitparade)[78]	100
France (SNEP)[59]	102

 

Aespa Supernova:

Spoiler

Chart (2024)	Peak position
Hong Kong (Billboard)[22]	1
South Korea (Circle)[12]	1
Taiwan (Billboard)[24]	2
Egypt (IFPI)[82]	5
Malaysia International (RIM)[87]	5
US World Digital Song Sales (Billboard)[27]	5
Malaysia (Billboard)[86]	6
Singapore (RIAS)[20]	6
Indonesia (Billboard)[85]	10
Indonesia (ASIRI)[84]	11
New Zealand Hot Singles (RMNZ)[29]	12
Global 200 (Billboard)[83]	17
Netherlands (Global Top 40)[32]	17
Japan Combined Singles (Oricon)[18]	24
Japan (Japan Hot 100)[17]	25
UK Singles Downloads (OCC)[89]	33
UK Singles Sales (OCC)[31]	33
Argentina (Argentina Hot 100)[33]	50
Nigeria Streaming (TurnTable Top 100)[88]	87

As you can see, SKZ have wider reach across the globe such as charting in 25 different countries including in Europe (which is VERY hard market to break for Kpop acts), North America (including Hot 100) and Asia (they charted higher in Japan as well). SKZ's global reach is very impressive and rare for a group with such a niché sound, and only BTS and BP are above them.

In comparison, aespa is more local to Asia as you can see and only charting in 11 local charts compared to SKZ who is charting in 25 local charts. 

 

Keep in mind that SKZ is also considered more of an album artist rather than a singles artist unlike aespa who is the opposite. SKZ are absolutely destroying aespa, not just in album sales but also album charting across the world. 

 

----------------

 

Now let's compare the global charts of their most successful albums of last year: 

 

Stray Kids - ATE (EP)

Spoiler

Weekly chart performance for Ate

Chart (2024)	Peak position
Austrian Albums (Ö3 Austria)[99]	1
Belgian Albums (Ultratop Flanders)[100]	1
Belgian Albums (Ultratop Wallonia)[101]	1
Croatian International Albums (HDU)[103]	1
French Albums (SNEP)[108]	1
Greek Albums (IFPI)[110]	1
Hungarian Albums (MAHASZ)[111]	1
Polish Albums (ZPAV)[119]	1
Portuguese Albums (AFP)[120]	1
South Korean Albums (Circle)[121]	1
US Billboard 200[127]	1
US World Albums (Billboard)[128]	1
Australian Albums (ARIA)[98]	2
German Albums (Offizielle Top 100)[109]	2
Japanese Albums (Oricon)[114]	2
Japanese Combined Albums (Oricon)[115]	2
Swiss Albums (Schweizer Hitparade)[125]	2
Japanese Hot Albums (Billboard Japan)[116]	5
Danish Albums (Hitlisten)[105]	6
Italian Albums (FIMI)[113]	6
Lithuanian Albums (AGATA)[117]	6
Spanish Albums (PROMUSICAE)[123]	6
Dutch Albums (Album Top 100)[106]	7
Finnish Albums (Suomen virallinen lista)[107]	9
New Zealand Albums (RMNZ)[118]	9
Swedish Albums (Sverigetopplistan)[124]	12
Icelandic Albums (Tónlistinn)[112]	17
Canadian Albums (Billboard)[102]	21
Slovak Albums (IFPI)[122]	60
UK Albums (OCC)[126]	62
Czech Albums (ČNS IFPI)[104]	92

 

Year-end chart performance for Ate

Chart (2024)	Position
US World Albums (Billboard)[145]	2
South Korean Albums (Circle)[142]	3
Global Albums (IFPI)[136]	10
Japanese Albums (Oricon)[138]	15
Hungarian Albums (MAHASZ)[137]	26
Austrian Albums (Ö3 Austria)[131]	34
Japanese Download Albums (Billboard Japan)[139]	37
Portuguese Albums (AFP)[141]	45
Polish Albums (ZPAV)[140]	60
French Albums (SNEP)[134]	65
Swiss Albums (Schweizer Hitparade)[143]	75
Belgian Albums (Ultratop Flanders)[132]	76
German Albums (Offizielle Top 100)[135]	88
US Billboard 200[144]	139
Belgian Albums (Ultratop Wallonia)[133]	143

 

 

Certifications and sales for Ate

Region	Certification	Certified units/sales
France (SNEP)[146]	Gold	50,000‡
South Korea (KMCA)[147]	2× Million	2,000,000^
United States (RIAA)[148]	Gold	500,000‡
Summaries
Worldwide (IFPI)	—	2,900,000[136]

 

aespa - Armageddon (Studio Album)

Spoiler

Weekly chart performance for Armageddon

Chart (2024)	Peak position
US World Albums (Billboard)[50]	1
South Korean Albums (Circle)[45]	2
Japanese Combined Albums (Oricon)[40]	3
US Independent Albums (Billboard)[49]	3
Japanese Albums (Oricon)[39]	4
Portuguese Albums (AFP)[44]	5
Australian Hitseekers Albums (ARIA)[32]	12
Croatian International Albums (HDU)[36]	14
Japanese Hot Albums (Billboard Japan)[41]	14
Swedish Physical Albums (Sverigetopplistan)[46]	20
US Billboard 200[48]	25
Nigerian Albums (TurnTable)[43]	34
Austrian Albums (Ö3 Austria)[33]	45
German Albums (Offizielle Top 100)[38]	45
UK Album Downloads (OCC)[47]	52
French Albums (SNEP)[37]	77
Belgian Albums (Ultratop Flanders)[34]	94
Lithuanian Albums (AGATA)[42]	98
Belgian Albums (Ultratop Wallonia)[35]	196

 

Year-end chart performance for Armageddon

Chart (2024)	Position
Japanese Albums (Oricon)[53]	96
Portuguese Albums (AFP)[54]	141
South Korean Albums (Circle)[55]	12

 

 

Certifications for Armageddon

Region	Certification	Certified units/sales
South Korea (KMCA)[56]	Million	1,000,000^

SKZ's album reached #1 in 10 different countries (including Hot 100), reached top 2 overall in 15 countries and reached top 10 in 22 countries overall.

 

aespa's album didn't reach #1 in any country, and only reached top 10 in 3 countries. 

 

And if we look at Year-end chart performance for both albums, then aespa only charted in 3 countries, while SKZ charted in 14 countries. 

 

And if we look at RIAA certifications, SKZ's album is certified Gold in US and France, while aespa is N/A. 

 

------

 

If we look at Spotify streams of each albums:

 

SKZ's EP with less songs and only 1 single is having more daily streams right now than aespa studio album with multiple singles and more songs overall:

 

ATE  (EP with 1 single)= 1M daily streams

Armegaddon (studio album with 2 singles) = 900K

 

-------------------

 

And last but not least, people are listening to SKZ's entire albums and discography, and not just their singles, hence why they have consecutively been charting on Spotify Global Artist Daily for almost 3 years straight, while aespa are never charting, and only appear on the chart for a few days during comeback period. 

 

6 hours ago, Eternium said:

As far as the touring shade, SKZ were at $5M reported gross after 5 years and two global tours. Aespa are already above $23M reported after just a bit over 4 years and two global tours and they have more boxscores incoming. If SKZ aren't touring flops, then neither are Aespa.

Stray Kids' 1st world tour (Unveil Tour) was canceled after 3 months due to COVID. They had planned to tour internationally, but many dates were either postponed or canceled as the global situation worsened. The group was only able to complete the tour in Asia, and the international legs were either rescheduled or canceled entirely. It wasn't until their second world tour, starting in 2022, that they were able to complete an official global tour. Hence why the gap might seem closer than what it actually is, since you're basically comparing 1 global tour of SKZ with 2 global tours of aespa, and yet aespa's total tour gross still haven't surpassed SKZ 2nd world tour alone.

 

When SKZ were 5 years into their career like aespa they concluded for the first time a world tour that grossed $71.5M and sold 776k tickets across 42 shows. The same year SKZ also had concluded a dome tour that grossed $30,6M and sold 353K tickets across 10 shows. The dome tour can even be considered a bigger significant success, since it nearly grossed half of their 42-show 2nd world tour despite having far fewer dates. Let's see if aespa can reach these numbers this year. 

 

And if we compare SKZ's touring power now with aespa  SKZ are touring for the first time in Europe and Latin America this year, and yet they will become the first Kpop act to have full on stadium tour in Europe and Latin America that is also fully sold out. And I don't need to bring up North America or Japan either, with their ticketing power being even more insane over there. 

 

-----------------

 

Now, how the hell is aespa bigger than Stray Kids after me posting all of this info and receipts  

 

Edited March 4 by Pluto6

[Pluto6]

12 hours ago, gay interrupted said:

Stray kids definitely have the stronger fandom buying / touring power as they are an internationally focused boyband, but aespa are far more beloved by the general public in Asia. There's like no contest. Karina's unpromoted solo "Up" out charted anything stray kids has ever released in Korea.

You do realize that Stray Kids are significantly bigger than aespa in Japan, which happens to be the largest music market in Asia, right?

 

Stray Kids just wrapped up the Asian leg of their ongoing tour, with even their smallest venues in Southeast Asia (Their weakest market) having capacities of 20K-40K. Selling out between 20K-40K tickets per country in SEA is massive especially if those numbers are considered your weakest. Not even aespa, for whom SEA is one of the biggest markets, can pull these kinds of numbers per concert over there or anywhere else outside of Japan.

 

13 hours ago, gay interrupted said:

Even with the handicaps Aespa has placed on them by SM in minimizing and or not setting them up for international success (I maintain one of the only reasons stray kids was even able to become so successful in the west is bc SM nuked NCT's rising international trajectory) their monthly listeners on Spotify are about the same. 

You just gave me an idea for a future thread lol. 

 

But anyways, NCT were never going to happen no matter what, due to their complex concept of line-up changes, and them being an SM group. SM tried everything to make NCT and SuperM happen in the West, but people were simply not here for it. SKZ always had the advantage over NCT due them being more relatable and not as manufactured as NCT, which fits more with Western audiences. 

 

Stray Kids western fanbase also just happened naturally without JYP even promoting them in the West etc., like they weren't even signed to a US label until 2022. 

 

[gay interrupted]

8 hours ago, Eternium said:

I actually personally know Metro Boomin and that doesn't make me a good rapper. You'll notice I haven't once come for talent levels of SKZ, just the absolute lack of quality in their music. I actually love hip-hop and noise music, but SKZ are more on the NCT side of the spectrum than the Aespa side, and that's their problem.

 

I can't imagine why you'd want to bring up Britney Spears. She was a revolutionary artist who collaborated with the biggest names in production of our generation to shape the soundscape of today's climate. SKZ have done nothing of that sort. They are not even remotely qualified to be in a conversation with a music legend like Britney Spears.

 

Aespa have actually outcharted SKZ already globally. Their weeks on Circle and the Billboard Global 200 surpass SKZ's by a significant margin. One week Hot 100 placements aren't impressive compared to Aespa spending months on the BB Global 200. Whiplash is now at 19 weeks and still charting. It was Aespa's second biggest hit of 2024 and lasted more weeks than Chk Chk Boom and Walkin On Water combined.

 

As far as the touring shade, SKZ were at $5M reported gross after 5 years and two global tours. Aespa are already above $23M reported after just a bit over 4 years and two global tours and they have more boxscores incoming. If SKZ aren't touring flops, then neither are Aespa.

This is the ultimate kryptonite to boygroup stans but so true. Boy groups thrive off of the parasocial relationship with fans and the hope they can date them. Girl groups thrive off of the quality of their music.

Before we go any further, can you tell me where you're getting these numbers?

 

Aespa's streams:

Spotify: 3.695B (3/2/25)

YouTube Music: 5.001 (1/29/25)

Melon: 1.353B (1/26/25)

 

That alone is 10.049B streams for Aespa. They have 400M+ on Genie, they're the best performing 4th gen group on Apple Music, they're have months of #1 placements on Flo and Naver, etc. 

not you trying to lump NCT in with SKZ 😭 127 could've released supernova or Armageddon and it would've felt right at home in their discography. Set the tone especially could've been a 127 b side 

Edited March 4 by gay interrupted

[gay interrupted]

1 hour ago, Pluto6 said:

You do realize that Stray Kids are significantly bigger than aespa in Japan, which happens to be the largest music market in Asia, right?

 

Stray Kids just wrapped up the Asian leg of their ongoing tour, with even their smallest venues in Southeast Asia (Their weakest market) having capacities of 20K-40K. Selling out between 20K-40K tickets per country in SEA is massive especially if those numbers are considered your weakest. Not even aespa, for whom SEA is one of the biggest markets, can pull these kinds of numbers per concert over there or anywhere else outside of Japan.

 

You just gave me an idea for a future thread lol. 

 

But anyways, NCT were never going to happen no matter what, due to their complex concept of line-up changes, and them being an SM group. SM tried everything to make NCT and SuperM happen in the West, but people were simply not here for it. SKZ always had the advantage over NCT due them being more relatable and not as manufactured as NCT, which fits more with Western audiences. 

 

Stray Kids western fanbase also just happened naturally without JYP even promoting them in the West etc., like they weren't even signed to a US label until 2022. 

 

Yeah I specified general public for a reason. Boy groups pretty much always outsell girl groups as their fandom power is greater. SKZ are always gonna sell out huge venues, but where are they on the charts? Aespa are making huge repeated hits that are making waves in these cultures- SKZ are a touring force but their music is non existent to people who aren't already in their fandom. I guess it just depends how you define success because aespa, while maybe not touring venues as big as SKZ, can still sell out a successful Japanese tour *and* consistently stay at the top of the charts. 
 

I would actually be so here for that thread. 127 is still SM's most globally streamed group on Spotify and I do think western audiences could've warmed to them even more had SM not *intentionally* nuked their international promotions. I don't think their sound, concept, or image was the problem it's just typical SM sabotage. Their music was always very relatable and western influenced (7th sense, firetruck, highway to heaven, superhuman) 

 

Mark, johnny and jaehyun are also some of the most visible international male idols in kpop spaces for a reason. I don't think stray kids necessarily have more accessible music or more relatable idols? Mark and johnny are far more charming than bang chan imo and they have the added bonus of actually being from america. SM will always be their biggest enemy.

 

 

[Cheers]

Would I sleep with 2-3 Stray Kids members? Well, yes! But what does that mean in the context of the reality that we live in? I do like green grapes and it's also my favorite soju flavor. I need you to understand what we're talking about. 

[Pluto6]

1 hour ago, gay interrupted said:

Yeah I specified general public for a reason. Boy groups pretty much always outsell girl groups as their fandom power is greater. SKZ are always gonna sell out huge venues, but where are they on the charts? Aespa are making huge repeated hits that are making waves in these cultures- SKZ are a touring force but their music is non existent to people who aren't already in their fandom. I guess it just depends how you define success because aespa, while maybe not touring venues as big as SKZ, can still sell out a successful Japanese tour *and* consistently stay at the top of the charts. 
 

I would actually be so here for that thread. 127 is still SM's most globally streamed group on Spotify and I do think western audiences could've warmed to them even more had SM not *intentionally* nuked their international promotions. I don't think their sound, concept, or image was the problem it's just typical SM sabotage. Their music was always very relatable and western influenced (7th sense, firetruck, highway to heaven, superhuman) 

 

Mark, johnny and jaehyun are also some of the most visible international male idols in kpop spaces for a reason. I don't think stray kids necessarily have more accessible music or more relatable idols? Mark and johnny are far more charming than bang chan imo and they have the added bonus of actually being from america. SM will always be their biggest enemy.

 

 

Even Oh My Girl destroys SKZ on Korean charts, which shows how little Korean charts can reflect on a group's overall popularity especially if they manage to branch out globally. Unless people actually believe Oh My girl is bigger than SKZ of course  There's a reason why companies have always branched out globally since 1st gen cause Korea is not a big enough music market to sustain groups and companies, especially compared to the Japanese and US markets which are the top 2 music markets in the world, which are also both SKZ's biggest markets. 

 

While aespa utterly destroys SKZ on Korean charts, that doesn't mean that SKZ doesn't have hits either. SKZ literally have the longest charting song by a foreign act in Japan on Oricon for example, like they are huge in Japan

 

Stream this #1 Anime bop hit btw

 

 

1 hour ago, gay interrupted said:

Mark, johnny and jaehyun are also some of the most visible international male idols in kpop spaces for a reason. I don't think stray kids necessarily have more accessible music or more relatable idols? Mark and johnny are far more charming than bang chan imo and they have the added bonus of actually being from america. SM will always be their biggest enemy.

SKZ has 6/8 members who can speak english which gives them a huge advantage with 2 members also having Australian nationality (Bang Chan & Felix).

 

In terms of relatability, SKZ have always been vulnerable in their songs, since they write and produce their own music and discuss topics like anxiety and mental health etc. in their lyrics, which connects with a lot of people.

 

Since you mentioned Chan, he has a strong parasocial relationship with his fans. He used to do weekly live streams called "Chan's Room," where he created a space to show his vulnerable side and discuss various topics. These included conversations about the music Stray Kids makes, how they create it, as well as more personal topics like the challenges of idol life. He would also react to videos requested by fans and give advice to those seeking guidance etc.

 

 

Edited March 5 by Pluto6

[Eternium]

5 hours ago, Pluto6 said:

Why are you comparing SKZ and Britney, when all I said was that you're probably not the target audience for SKZ's music, since you're musical preference probably fits more with SNSD and Britney's music??  If you really wanted and excuse to praise Britney, you could've just made a Britney appreciation thread, instead of taking this conversation somewhere else which si compeltely irrelvant in this discussion 

 

Chartmaster.org, A lot of people is getting their numbers from that site.

 

But let's say that they didn't include all of aespa's numbers according to you, then the same would be for SKZ, and they would still have a very similar gap. 

 

If we look at each groups best performing songs last year:

 

Stray Kids - Chk Chk Boom:

  Reveal hidden contents

Chart (2024)	Peak position
New Zealand Hot Singles (RMNZ)[72]	1
US World Digital Song Sales (Billboard)[83]	1
Singapore (RIAS)[76]	6
Malaysia International (RIM)[69]	8
Malaysia (Billboard)[68]	9
Global 200 (Billboard)[62]	10
Taiwan (Billboard)[79]	10
Japan Combined Singles (Oricon)[66]	11
Japan (Japan Hot 100)[65]	12
Netherlands (Global Top 40)[71]	13
Hong Kong (Billboard)[63]	14
MENA (IFPI)[70]	18
UAE (IFPI)[80]	18
South Korea (Circle)[12]	23
UK Singles (OCC)[81]	30
Greece International (IFPI)[61]	48
US Billboard Hot 100[82]	49
Poland (Polish Streaming Top 100)[74]	50
Lithuania (AGATA)[67]	53
Canada (Canadian Hot 100)[57]	55
Slovakia (Singles Digitál Top 100)[77]	57
Austria (Ö3 Austria Top 40)[56]	61
Germany (GfK)[60]	64
Ireland (IRMA)[64]	68
Czech Republic (Singles Digitál Top 100)[58]	79
Philippines (Philippines Hot 100)[73]	81
Australia (ARIA)[55]	85
Portugal (AFP)[75]	87
Switzerland (Schweizer Hitparade)[78]	100
France (SNEP)[59]	102

 

Aespa Supernova:

  Reveal hidden contents

Chart (2024)	Peak position
Hong Kong (Billboard)[22]	1
South Korea (Circle)[12]	1
Taiwan (Billboard)[24]	2
Egypt (IFPI)[82]	5
Malaysia International (RIM)[87]	5
US World Digital Song Sales (Billboard)[27]	5
Malaysia (Billboard)[86]	6
Singapore (RIAS)[20]	6
Indonesia (Billboard)[85]	10
Indonesia (ASIRI)[84]	11
New Zealand Hot Singles (RMNZ)[29]	12
Global 200 (Billboard)[83]	17
Netherlands (Global Top 40)[32]	17
Japan Combined Singles (Oricon)[18]	24
Japan (Japan Hot 100)[17]	25
UK Singles Downloads (OCC)[89]	33
UK Singles Sales (OCC)[31]	33
Argentina (Argentina Hot 100)[33]	50
Nigeria Streaming (TurnTable Top 100)[88]	87

As you can see, SKZ have wider reach across the globe such as charting in 25 different countries including in Europe (which is VERY hard market to break for Kpop acts), North America (including Hot 100) and Asia (they charted higher in Japan as well). SKZ's global reach is very impressive and rare for a group with such a niché sound, and only BTS and BP are above them.

In comparison, aespa is more local to Asia as you can see and only charting in 11 local charts compared to SKZ who is charting in 25 local charts. 

 

Keep in mind that SKZ is also considered more of an album artist rather than a singles artist unlike aespa who is the opposite. SKZ are absolutely destroying aespa, not just in album sales but also album charting across the world. 

 

----------------

 

Now let's compare the global charts of their most successful albums of last year: 

 

Stray Kids - ATE (EP)

  Reveal hidden contents

Weekly chart performance for Ate

Chart (2024)	Peak position
Austrian Albums (Ö3 Austria)[99]	1
Belgian Albums (Ultratop Flanders)[100]	1
Belgian Albums (Ultratop Wallonia)[101]	1
Croatian International Albums (HDU)[103]	1
French Albums (SNEP)[108]	1
Greek Albums (IFPI)[110]	1
Hungarian Albums (MAHASZ)[111]	1
Polish Albums (ZPAV)[119]	1
Portuguese Albums (AFP)[120]	1
South Korean Albums (Circle)[121]	1
US Billboard 200[127]	1
US World Albums (Billboard)[128]	1
Australian Albums (ARIA)[98]	2
German Albums (Offizielle Top 100)[109]	2
Japanese Albums (Oricon)[114]	2
Japanese Combined Albums (Oricon)[115]	2
Swiss Albums (Schweizer Hitparade)[125]	2
Japanese Hot Albums (Billboard Japan)[116]	5
Danish Albums (Hitlisten)[105]	6
Italian Albums (FIMI)[113]	6
Lithuanian Albums (AGATA)[117]	6
Spanish Albums (PROMUSICAE)[123]	6
Dutch Albums (Album Top 100)[106]	7
Finnish Albums (Suomen virallinen lista)[107]	9
New Zealand Albums (RMNZ)[118]	9
Swedish Albums (Sverigetopplistan)[124]	12
Icelandic Albums (Tónlistinn)[112]	17
Canadian Albums (Billboard)[102]	21
Slovak Albums (IFPI)[122]	60
UK Albums (OCC)[126]	62
Czech Albums (ČNS IFPI)[104]	92

 

Year-end chart performance for Ate

Chart (2024)	Position
US World Albums (Billboard)[145]	2
South Korean Albums (Circle)[142]	3
Global Albums (IFPI)[136]	10
Japanese Albums (Oricon)[138]	15
Hungarian Albums (MAHASZ)[137]	26
Austrian Albums (Ö3 Austria)[131]	34
Japanese Download Albums (Billboard Japan)[139]	37
Portuguese Albums (AFP)[141]	45
Polish Albums (ZPAV)[140]	60
French Albums (SNEP)[134]	65
Swiss Albums (Schweizer Hitparade)[143]	75
Belgian Albums (Ultratop Flanders)[132]	76
German Albums (Offizielle Top 100)[135]	88
US Billboard 200[144]	139
Belgian Albums (Ultratop Wallonia)[133]	143

 

 

Certifications and sales for Ate

Region	Certification	Certified units/sales
France (SNEP)[146]	Gold	50,000‡
South Korea (KMCA)[147]	2× Million	2,000,000^
United States (RIAA)[148]	Gold	500,000‡
Summaries
Worldwide (IFPI)	—	2,900,000[136]

 

aespa - Armageddon (Studio Album)

  Reveal hidden contents

Weekly chart performance for Armageddon

Chart (2024)	Peak position
US World Albums (Billboard)[50]	1
South Korean Albums (Circle)[45]	2
Japanese Combined Albums (Oricon)[40]	3
US Independent Albums (Billboard)[49]	3
Japanese Albums (Oricon)[39]	4
Portuguese Albums (AFP)[44]	5
Australian Hitseekers Albums (ARIA)[32]	12
Croatian International Albums (HDU)[36]	14
Japanese Hot Albums (Billboard Japan)[41]	14
Swedish Physical Albums (Sverigetopplistan)[46]	20
US Billboard 200[48]	25
Nigerian Albums (TurnTable)[43]	34
Austrian Albums (Ö3 Austria)[33]	45
German Albums (Offizielle Top 100)[38]	45
UK Album Downloads (OCC)[47]	52
French Albums (SNEP)[37]	77
Belgian Albums (Ultratop Flanders)[34]	94
Lithuanian Albums (AGATA)[42]	98
Belgian Albums (Ultratop Wallonia)[35]	196

 

Year-end chart performance for Armageddon

Chart (2024)	Position
Japanese Albums (Oricon)[53]	96
Portuguese Albums (AFP)[54]	141
South Korean Albums (Circle)[55]	12

 

 

Certifications for Armageddon

Region	Certification	Certified units/sales
South Korea (KMCA)[56]	Million	1,000,000^

SKZ's album reached #1 in 10 different countries (including Hot 100), reached top 2 overall in 15 countries and reached top 10 in 22 countries overall.

 

aespa's album didn't reach #1 in any country, and only reached top 10 in 3 countries. 

 

And if we look at Year-end chart performance for both albums, then aespa only charted in 3 countries, while SKZ charted in 14 countries. 

 

And if we look at RIAA certifications, SKZ's album is certified Gold in US and France, while aespa is N/A. 

 

------

 

If we look at Spotify streams of each albums:

 

SKZ's EP with less songs and only 1 single is having more daily streams right now than aespa studio album with multiple singles and more songs overall:

 

ATE  (EP with 1 single)= 1M daily streams

Armegaddon (studio album with 2 singles) = 900K

 

-------------------

 

And last but not least, people are listening to SKZ's entire albums and discography, and not just their singles, hence why they have consecutively been charting on Spotify Global Artist Daily for almost 3 years straight, while aespa are never charting, and only appear on the chart for a few days during comeback period. 

 

Stray Kids' 1st world tour (Unveil Tour) was canceled after 3 months due to COVID. They had planned to tour internationally, but many dates were either postponed or canceled as the global situation worsened. The group was only able to complete the tour in Asia, and the international legs were either rescheduled or canceled entirely. It wasn't until their second world tour, starting in 2022, that they were able to complete an official global tour. Hence why the gap might seem closer than what it actually is, since you're basically comparing 1 global tour of SKZ with 2 global tours of aespa, and yet aespa's total tour gross still haven't surpassed SKZ 2nd world tour alone.

 

When SKZ were 5 years into their career like aespa they concluded for the first time a world tour that grossed $71.5M and sold 776k tickets across 42 shows. The same year SKZ also had concluded a dome tour that grossed $30,6M and sold 353K tickets across 10 shows. The dome tour can even be considered a bigger significant success, since it nearly grossed half of their 42-show 2nd world tour despite having far fewer dates. Let's see if aespa can reach these numbers this year. 

 

And if we compare SKZ's touring power now with aespa  SKZ are touring for the first time in Europe and Latin America this year, and yet they will become the first Kpop act to have full on stadium tour in Europe and Latin America that is also fully sold out. And I don't need to bring up North America or Japan either, with their ticketing power being even more insane over there. 

 

-----------------

 

Now, how the hell is aespa bigger than Stray Kids after me posting all of this info and receipts  

 

Baby, you brought up my Britney stanning as if it made me a one-dimensional music listener. I come from a majority black city - I listen to and hear more rap and hip-hop than I do any other genre here. I'm just not gagged by any K-pop rap and it's very rare when I find them to be that impressive (Yubin, TOP, Chanmina, etc.). Most K-pop rappers are rappers because they couldn't make the vocal line, not because it's their genre of music.

 

Nobody's arguing that SKZ after 7 years don't have more streams than Aespa after 4 years. What we're arguing is that Aespa after 4 years has significantly more streams than SKZ did at the same point in time and they're growing more quickly, despite not having a sizable fanbase using Stationhead.

 

As far as global charting, I'm aware SKZ's fans use Stationhead to get quick one week peaks in other countries. It's no different than "Who" by Jimin. But Aespa outlasts that because their songs stay on charts for significant periods. 
 

Aespa are at 74 weeks on the Billboard Global 200 (as of 9/24/24 - meaning they've added at least 19 weeks since then). Aespa have 880 weeks on the Circle digital charts. Stray Kids do well for one week on the Billboard Global 200 and then crater. Aespa's 2024 singles charting total outdid SKZ's entire career. SKZ don't have a song with even 10 weeks on the Global 200  
 

Here's their Billboard Global 200 Entries:

#8. Whiplash (19 Weeks & Charting)

Supernova (25 weeks)

Armageddon (13 weeks)

 

 

SKZ's first world tour was their Unveil Tour. It has a reported gross of $770k. Their second would tour got cut short due to COVID, but it was grossing less than Synk Hyper Line. Aespa's first global tour outgrossed SKZ's first two global tours and Aespa's gross at 4 years in is ahead of where SKZ's gross was 6 years in to their career.