Prisoner Posted November 12 Posted November 12 The only reason she lost was cause she a woman, a poc woman at that. Another random white guy would've won 4 2
ImpressMeMuch Posted November 12 Posted November 12 (edited) 4 hours ago, Prisoner said: The only reason she lost was cause she a woman, a poc woman at that. Another random white guy would've won add together the sexists, the racists, and duped by an independent hard left crowd and you have a pretty good explanation for why dems "didn't show up" Edit: Oh, I should also have included the "but the economy" centrists lol Edited November 12 by ImpressMeMuch 2 1
terrijoe Posted November 12 Posted November 12 20 hours ago, Headlock said: Such boring trolling I'm actually not even trolling.
Headlock Posted November 13 Posted November 13 (edited) 2 hours ago, terrijoe said: I'm actually not even trolling. Ok terrijoe Edited November 13 by Headlock
GreatestLoveofAll Posted November 13 Posted November 13 i really dont think the Dems have a choice really. the entire country is moving right and rejecting anything they see as "left" and "woke" and I dont wanna seem like im stanning an establishment party and all but this isnt exactly bad messaging on their part. 1 1
brazil Posted November 13 Posted November 13 (edited) 21 minutes ago, GreatestLoveofAll said: i really dont think the Dems have a choice really. the entire country is moving right and rejecting anything they see as "left" and "woke" and I dont wanna seem like im stanning an establishment party and all but this isnt exactly bad messaging on their part. Honestly, many people that supported Trump supported Bernie in the past. It isn't just about moving to the right, it's also about officials with conviction that doesn't seem just interested in keeping the status quo while not taking hard positions, as was the case for Kamala. Kamala was ahead after Biden's resignation, but kept losing points the more centered, establishment politician she sold herself as in media engagements after the appointment. Edited November 13 by brazil 1
XAMJ Posted November 13 Posted November 13 the narrative that dems moved away from 'working class people' is such bs cause they were the only ones trying to do anything for the working class trump won due to identity politics and hate , hate is easier to convey than to educate 100M Americans with a 5th grade education on why their problems exist. 6 1
Thesedays Posted November 14 Posted November 14 On 11/11/2024 at 10:49 PM, VOSS said: She ran a centrist campaign but she was not a centrist candidate She is was center-right candidate, with a center-right record. 2
Thesedays Posted November 14 Posted November 14 On 11/11/2024 at 11:20 PM, DevilsRollTheDice said: There is literally an option for "Kamala Harris is too conservative" and it's second from the bottom. The inflation problem has been observed worldwide and has caused the largest turnover of incumbent power since WWII including in countries that have the economic policies you advocate for. The information environment also influenced the perception of that issue heavily. Instead of pretending that this was caused by millions of imagined voters who sat out that will magically appear when all your exact policy positions are on the ballot (Sanders couldn't even win a primary) it might be more productive to accept that voters WANTED Trump and swung right across many demographics. I agree with you about many of the economic policies Dems should be pushing but the problem is much more complex than that simplification or implying that Americans perceived Harris as too conservative rather than not conservative enough. This whole point is so stupid. Obama was considered "super liberal" and he won twice. The average voter has no idea of what's left and right, which is why both universal healthcare and deporting millions and a billionaire tax are all popular. Voters thinking "Kamala is too liberal" is utter meaningless because the world "liberal" has no actual logical meaning to the average voter and even if people perceived her that way, that would still wouldn't stop her from winning if she had ran a successful campaign (see Obama, for example). 1
ClashAndBurn Posted November 14 Posted November 14 On 11/11/2024 at 11:04 PM, Bloo said: When did a Bernie-like campaign run for president? We ran centrist candidates thrice now and we only barely won once in bizarre circumstances by 44k votes across three states. Again, the data is not on your side. But, since you're so set on it, I'm gonna let you live on in delusion. Arguably we've run nothing but centrists since 1976. The same neoliberal playbook has been ongoing since Carter and Dems have moved further and further right since Reagan, Bush, and now Trump. Brief moments where bringing things back to left of center have gone away as quickly as they came.
Thesedays Posted November 14 Posted November 14 (edited) On 11/12/2024 at 12:44 AM, Delirious said: Bernie had even less vote share than Kamala in his own state lol. Everyone on atrl is living in their own bubble thinking that Bernie or his policies is what Americans want or wanted He lost terribly for a reason because noone wants him not even his own party. He never lost terribly though. The one who actually lost terribly is Kamala, that had to drop out of the primary Bernie placed second because she was fifth. And now she lost terribly once again, the worst Dem defeat in 2 decades. Also, he was like 1% behind Kamala in his deep blue affluent state so like what difference does that make? He is still statistically more popular than her nationally Edited November 14 by Thesedays
VOSS Posted November 14 Posted November 14 18 minutes ago, Thesedays said: She is was center-right candidate, with a center-right record. She had the second most liberal voting record in the Senate please 1
Thesedays Posted November 14 Posted November 14 1 minute ago, VOSS said: She had the second most liberal voting record in the Senate please and is that supposed to mean anything? is there anyone who is slightly center-left in the US senate except for bernie and elizabeth warren? like, the woman literally supports an ethnostate committing genocide lol
Communion Posted November 14 Author Posted November 14 54 minutes ago, VOSS said: She had the second most liberal voting record in the Senate This isn't true. She had the most partisan, which doesn't mean anything in a highly polarized environment. The "most liberal" claim comes from one single site that took what it considered "core Dems" and compared how many votes out of all aligned. Her votes make her a middle-of-the-road Democrat, especially as one from a deep blue state. It's like arguing she's somehow more progressive than Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren when she basically vote like a big blue liberal-not-progressive like Cory Booker or Kirsten Gillibrand. 1
Armani? Posted November 14 Posted November 14 4 hours ago, VOSS said: She had the second most liberal voting record in the Senate please And yet she was campaigning with Liz Cheney for votes that didn't exist, calling for the most lethal fighting force in the world, and had no public option for Medicare. She pivoted 3 1
Onyxmage Posted November 14 Posted November 14 18 hours ago, brazil said: Honestly, many people that supported Trump supported Bernie in the past. It isn't just about moving to the right, it's also about officials with conviction that doesn't seem just interested in keeping the status quo while not taking hard positions, as was the case for Kamala. Kamala was ahead after Biden's resignation, but kept losing points the more centered, establishment politician she sold herself as in media engagements after the appointment. Yes because saying she was willing to give people that disagreed with her a seat at the table as opposed to Trump calling people who disagreed with him VERMIN means she has no conviction. The clownery in this country has reached an all time high.
ClashAndBurn Posted November 14 Posted November 14 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Onyxmage said: Yes because saying she was willing to give people that disagreed with her a seat at the table as opposed to Trump calling people who disagreed with him VERMIN means she has no conviction. The clownery in this country has reached an all time high. Giving a seat at the table to people who lost an election is loser behavior, which is why Trump and his ilk aren't doing it, and they won. All she did was demoralize her base. And frankly the Liz Cheney-hugging she was campaigning on, which utterly failed as a strategy, was a disaster. If she had won, I could maybe stomach it. But she didn't. She's a loser. A failure. Her Republican embracing was a failure. And I hope Democrats will never do it again. But who am I kidding? Liz Cheney will probably be a front runner for Josh Shapiro's running-mate in 2028. Edited November 14 by ClashAndBurn 2
Onyxmage Posted November 14 Posted November 14 1 hour ago, ClashAndBurn said: Giving a seat at the table to people who lost an election is loser behavior, which is why Trump and his ilk aren't doing it, and they won. All she did was demoralize her base. And frankly the Liz Cheney-hugging she was campaigning on, which utterly failed as a strategy, was a disaster. If she had won, I could maybe stomach it. But she didn't. She's a loser. A failure. Her Republican embracing was a failure. And I hope Democrats will never do it again. But who am I kidding? Liz Cheney will probably be a front runner for Josh Shapiro's running-mate in 2028. **** TRUMP AND **** HIS ILK.
GraceRandolph Posted November 14 Posted November 14 On 11/12/2024 at 10:48 AM, Prisoner said: The only reason she lost was cause she a woman, a poc woman at that. Another random white guy would've won Biden was set to lose by worse margins 3
brazil Posted November 14 Posted November 14 1 hour ago, Onyxmage said: Yes because saying she was willing to give people that disagreed with her a seat at the table as opposed to Trump calling people who disagreed with him VERMIN means she has no conviction. The clownery in this country has reached an all time high. Clearly that's not what I mean but not being able to make clear stances on things like trans healthcare
GreatestLoveofAll Posted November 14 Posted November 14 17 hours ago, XAMJ said: the narrative that dems moved away from 'working class people' is such bs cause they were the only ones trying to do anything for the working class trump won due to identity politics and hate , hate is easier to convey than to educate 100M Americans with a 5th grade education on why their problems exist. exactly.
Chiidish Posted Monday at 03:35 PM Posted Monday at 03:35 PM (edited) We will never be free. I see it now, liberalism is a disease the writing is on the wall. so concerned with the status quo and seeming right vs effecting real impactful change. The right is mobilizing around fringe groups and moving further right. But liberals are so concerned with taking talking points from out of touch elites that they'd rather perpetually cede power forever. No conversations about moving forward and doing something new as the people clearly have been asking for. Just the same type of candidates with the same sort of messaging that only works after republicans screw up enough that stupid people can connect the dots for a brief instance in time then forget all over again. They (libs) can't even see that there were a lot of good things that Biden did that were never campaigned on or talked about that were already aligned with left leaning populism. Instead all they said was economy is getting better while failing to break it down (DUMB IT DOWN) to their constituents ANY of the good they did. This was such a winnable election but they think being anti-Trump is enough to secure votes. Edited Monday at 03:36 PM by Chiidish 2
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