news Israel-Palestine Conflict 2023/ 2024 Mega Thread

[Aethereal]

These genocidal comments that we see about Palestinians are not only limited to them, it is just that Western media has made it more open for people to express their real selves this time. 

 

Those types of comments (sentiment) exist for African and other Middle Eastern countries too, but people are less likely to vocalize about that.

[FOCK]

 

[ZeroSuitBritney]

A refugee camp was just bombed

 

 

[FOCK]

 

 

[Harrier]

On 12/24/2023 at 9:21 AM, Communion said:

 

 

Well I'm sure all of us are just glad to have your burning commentary on a country you just discovered existed today.

Please, y'all are so ******* weird. 11 laugh reacts for this derangement? Yemen is hardly a wildly discussed country on this website, you could search any member's in here's posts (especially members that don't have 10s of thousands of posts unlike you ms thing) and this would be the result. I can't speak for GhostBox's knowledge but just because they or any other member hasn't posted about something doesn't mean they don't know of its existence, I mean what kind of dumb narrative is that. I don't think I've posted about idk, Venezuela or Maduro, but that doesn't mean ****. Like what are we doing here?

 

Not only that, it's in response to them dunking on the usual suspects cheering on violent far right Islamists because they also hate the West, again. Like clockwork. Race to the bottom with y'all.

[Communion]

10 minutes ago, Harrier said:

Please, y'all are so ******* weird. 11 laugh reacts for this derangement? Yemen is hardly a wildly discussed country on this website

Hmm, why would people want to dunk on a vehement, die hard blind Joe Biden supporter trying to wade in on geopolitics and now - for the first time ever - Yemen in a way that blindly will be for the next 20 pages in line with whatever Joe Biden feels?

 

 

It is interesting you have a very intense feelings that compel you to randomly pathologize users like myself and others as "campists" and "tankies" and that somehow these random personal attacks should be expected because "it's your entire forum personality", but someone whose entire forum purpose is to defend Joe Biden (including when Joe Biden says death toll numbers are fake !) shouldn't be dunked on when doing so incoherently?

 

I think the suffering of the Yemeni people is awful. I also think anyone who supports someone who gleefully sold Saudi Arabia the bombs to drop on Yemen for years is largely disqualified from claiming such themselves. 

Edited December 25, 2023 by Communion

[Nova_23]

 

[mons†er]

sincerely, genuinely and honestly

praying for all the Palestinians. the fact that genocide is occurring and it has become a footnote to the rest of the world is truly disgusting. the Palestinian people do not deserve to have this happened or watch this happened to their people. I hope during this holiday season where consumerism has become the DNA of the season, that people actually look and support efforts to support Palestinians in their time of need now more than ever. I send well wishes and honest love to all those affected by this awful tragedy, and pray to God, Allah & the universe that this will come to an end in favor of the Palestinians. 

[State of Grace.]

27 minutes ago, Harrier said:

Not only that, it's in response to them dunking on the usual suspects cheering on violent far right Islamists because they also hate the West, again. Like clockwork. Race to the bottom with y'all.

It's incredibly fascinating how you just refuse to get it and continue to push this "angry homosexuals rooting for violent Islamists because they hate the West" narrative 

 

[Nova_23]

 

Edited December 25, 2023 by Nova_23

[ClashAndBurn]

1 hour ago, Harrier said:

Please, y'all are so ******* weird. 11 laugh reacts for this derangement? Yemen is hardly a wildly discussed country on this website, you could search any member's in here's posts (especially members that don't have 10s of thousands of posts unlike you ms thing) and this would be the result. I can't speak for GhostBox's knowledge but just because they or any other member hasn't posted about something doesn't mean they don't know of its existence, I mean what kind of dumb narrative is that. I don't think I've posted about idk, Venezuela or Maduro, but that doesn't mean ****. Like what are we doing here?

 

Not only that, it's in response to them dunking on the usual suspects cheering on violent far right Islamists because they also hate the West, again. Like clockwork. Race to the bottom with y'all.

The Houthis forcing the West to spend $1.8M per missile to shoot down $2k drones is objectively hilarious.  

 

The West’s Prosperity Guardian operation crumbling to dust in less than a week because Joe Biden is a failure of a coalition leader is also objectively hilarious.  
 

Not everything is about cheering on terrorism, sis! Though there’s been plenty of that from the America and IDF stans in this thread since Israel began its ground invasion

 

Edited December 25, 2023 by ClashAndBurn

[airplane]

i can’t believe that pathetic lowlife (📦)is still allowed to troll on here 

Edited December 25, 2023 by airplane

[Harrier]

4 hours ago, Communion said:

Hmm, why would people want to dunk on a vehement, die hard blind Joe Biden supporter trying to wade in on geopolitics and now - for the first time ever - Yemen in a way that blindly will be for the next 20 pages in line with whatever Joe Biden feels?

 

 

It is interesting you have a very intense feelings that compel you to randomly pathologize users like myself and others as "campists" and "tankies" and that somehow these random personal attacks should be expected because "it's your entire forum personality", but someone whose entire forum purpose is to defend Joe Biden (including when Joe Biden says death toll numbers are fake !) shouldn't be dunked on when doing so incoherently?

 

I think the suffering of the Yemeni people is awful. I also think anyone who supports someone who gleefully sold Saudi Arabia the bombs to drop on Yemen for years is largely disqualified from claiming such themselves. 

I don't agree with much of what GhostBox (or Kassi ) post, and I don't care for Joe Biden which you seem to recognise. But you and others in this thread are more representative of the prevailing views on this website and of the mods, thus why it feels more prudent to me to pushback where I disagree. For me I've not been interested in doing Israel apologia, rather it's about opposing leftist support of violent Islamists to own the libs/own the westerners. And that has been a thing on this website since literally the opening hours of Oct 7th.

But also I won't hide or deny that I have a particular distaste for your brand of politics, and that's been there for years, ever since I did Chinese/Soviet history units at uni. I genuinely think you and others who share your views - especially the willingness to justify violence - are dangerous. I look at you and other leftists' willingness to support "revolutionary" or "resistance' violence and I see the same ideaology that justified what was done in the CR in China, to pick one example.  It is a particularly concerning brand of modern American leftism that I have always disliked and desperately do not want to influence my country.

 

Spoiler

On the personal attacks, me calling you a tankie or wathever does not constitute a personal attack in the same manner that you calling me a racist, 'a danger to queer youth' or the various other things you've called me over the years. So let's not go down that path. The swearing is just that im Aussie and its how we talk

 

[Mr. Mendes]

5 hours ago, Harrier said:

Not only that, it's in response to them dunking on the usual suspects cheering on violent far right Islamists because they also hate the West, again.

Oh give me a break. I'm really tired of the people in this thread and in the real world supporting the systematic murder of an entire group of people trying to pretend that we're the bad guys. The call is coming from inside the house, and that's who you're choosing to defend here.

 

We don't hate the west, we hate the westerns who're rising up to celebrate the murder of people simply because of the fact that they're Muslims. if it were any other group of people then there would be no debate on this subject. It'd be a unanimous decrying of Israel's daily acts of terrorism. 

Edited December 25, 2023 by Mr. Mendes

[Harrier]

5 hours ago, State of Grace. said:

It's incredibly fascinating how you just refuse to get it and continue to push this "angry homosexuals rooting for violent Islamists because they hate the West" narrative 

 

There's nothing I don't "get", miss smug. I know what you people believe and why you believe it.  I also have never made an argument about "angry homosexuals" and have fought against the "Gazans dont support your gay rights" narrative several times. But this is always the case with online leftists - everyone who disagrees in any way is put in the same camp - see the above post as well. I'm a zionist that loves Israel because I think Hamas is bad and supporting them is bad for Palestinans.

 

It's incredibly fascinating how people can get so self righteous and self assured that they think pushing back on open support and celebration of Islamist groups is somehow controversial, and worthy of smug jeering. You can't make up the derangement

[FOCK]

 

[Jjang]

5 hours ago, Harrier said:

There's nothing I don't "get", miss smug. I know what you people believe and why you believe it.  I also have never made an argument about "angry homosexuals" and have fought against the "Gazans dont support your gay rights" narrative several times. But this is always the case with online leftists - everyone who disagrees in any way is put in the same camp - see the above post as well. I'm a zionist that loves Israel because I think Hamas is bad and supporting them is bad for Palestinans.

 

It's incredibly fascinating how people can get so self righteous and self assured that they think pushing back on open support and celebration of Islamist groups is somehow controversial, and worthy of smug jeering. You can't make up the derangement

There is absolutely something you don't get, Miss Smug. You don't get that your energy here is completely and utterly useless and certainly not what Palestinians need right now. In case you didn't notice, our tolerance here for anyone not siding with us is not because we're some crazy leftists but because the case we are defending is a century-old systemic oppression day in and day out that Palestinians have been subjected to. That's why we're not tolerant. we could not give a rat's ass about your pseudo-intelligent nuanced opinion in times of ongoing genocide. 

 

Both secular and Islamist Palestinian liberation fronts were rejected by Israel. If tomorrow a new secular & ultra gay-friendly Palestinian liberation front morphed Israel is gonna try to kill them tomorrow. Their anti-Palestinian systemic racism and their plight to never give Palestinians their right to self-determination is the issue we're trying to tackle here.

 

The only reason Hamas was able to thrive and become so hostile is precisely because of the blockade culture that Israel created in Gaza. So any way you are going to try to turn it around, the source issue remains Israel's existence. There are extremist Islamic groups that are bad for citizens in Lebanon and Jordan too, does that mean they should live indefinitely under occupation until that's resolved? Do you also want me to mention a bunch of resistance groups throughout history that did not give a **** about civilians that now history praises regardless? 

 

And by all means, let us Palestinians protest Hamas once Palestine is free. Let us protest our gay rights once Palestine is free. You don't get to dictate the terms and conditions of our freedom and only then we can entertain the idea of living freely on our ******* land. **** that bs.

 

And there's something very orientalist about objecting to ExtRemIst ISlAmic OrGaniZations as if the Middle East is not mainly a Muslim region.  That's the situation in that region and that's the cards we're dealt with. You either make the effort to grasp this reality and pick up the conversation from where it's at or you're against us. Sawry miss smug! 

 

Edited December 25, 2023 by Jjang

[Harrier]

39 minutes ago, Jjang said:

There is absolutely something you don't get, Miss Smug. You don't get that your energy here is completely and utterly useless and certainly not what Palestinians need right now. In case you didn't notice, our tolerance here for anyone not siding with us is not because we're some crazy leftists but because the case we are defending is a century-old systemic oppression day in and day out that Palestinians have been subjected to. That's why we're not tolerant. we could not give a rat's ass about your pseudo-intelligent nuanced opinion in times of ongoing genocide. 

 

Both secular and Islamist Palestinian liberation fronts were rejected by Israel. If tomorrow a new secular & ultra gay-friendly Palestinian liberation front morphed Israel is gonna try to kill them tomorrow. Their anti-Palestinian systemic racism and their plight to never give Palestinians their right to self-determination is the issue we're trying to tackle here.

 

The only reason Hamas was able to thrive and become so hostile is precisely because of the blockade culture that Israel created in Gaza. So any way you are going to try to turn it around, the source issue remains Israel's existence. There are extremist Islamic groups that are bad for citizens in Lebanon and Jordan too, does that mean they should live indefinitely under occupation until that's resolved? Do you also want me to mention a bunch of resistance groups throughout history that did not give a **** about civilians that now history praises regardless? 

 

And by all means, let us Palestinians protest Hamas once Palestine is free. Let us protest our gay rights once Palestine is free. You don't get to dictate the terms and conditions of our freedom and only then we can entertain the idea of living freely on our ******* land. **** that bs.

 

And there's something very orientalist about objecting to ExtRemIst ISlAmic OrGaniZations as if the Middle East is not mainly a Muslim region.  That's the situation in that region and that's the cards we're dealt with. You either make the effort to grasp this reality and pick up the conversation from where it's at or you're against us. Sawry miss smug! 

 

You say Palestinians can protest Hamas after Palestine is free - so after Hamas achieves its goals?  Your nationalist delusion will not happen. Palestine will not be from river to sea, not unless israel is bombed into submission by Iran or something. Israel will not cease to exist without extreme, completely unjustifiable violence. It is an entrenched modern state with the backing of a superpower, and the UN recognition of virtually every state outside of the Islamic world. We are completely powerless to do anything about it, especially those of us who aren't American. Face that reality.

 

Is it justice? No. Should it be this way? No. I have always said that Israel should never have existed. But peace is more important than justice. The lives of Palestinian children are more important than one free state. The sacrificial, martryed, revolutionary politics of Hamas and their supporters in the online left makes pawns of innocent Palestinians in service of an impossible goal. Accepting Israel's existence and pushing for hard immediate peace is the only way forward and I will continue to fight anyone who says otherwise regardless of who you are or whatever any of you think of me. Violence will end only in genocide.

 

 

[Jjang]

19 minutes ago, Harrier said:

Your nationalist delusions will not happen. 

Palestine will not be from river to sea, not unless israel is bombed into submission by Iran or something. Israel will not cease to exist without extreme, completely unjustifiable violence. It is an entrenched modern state with the backing of a superpower, and the UN recognition of virtually every state outside of the Islamic world. We are completely powerless to do anything about it, especially those of us who aren't American. Face that reality.

 

Is it justice? No. Should it be this way? No. I have always said that Israel should never have existed. But peace is more important than justice. The lives of Palestinian children are more important than one free state. The sacrificial, martryed, revolutionary politics of Hamas and their supporters in the online left makes pawns of innocent Palestinians in service of an impossible goal. Accepting Israel's existence and pushing for hard immediate peace is the only way forward and I will continue to fight anyone who says otherwise regardless of who you are or whatever any of you think of me. Violence will end only in genocide.

The same was said by apartheid South Africa for 40 years and colonial Algeria for 130 years. If anything, we're closer to a one-state solution conversation than we've ever been in terms of public discourse. The support Palestinians are receiving internationally is also beyond unprecedented. 

 

So basically, in short, you are here to taunt Palestinians in bad faith, tell them they're delusional for believing in a world where they are free, and that the only thing they should strive for is to continue getting murdered and humiliated by Israel day in and day out, but they should do it silently. Your solution is that Palestinians should just accept death.

 

Palestinians haven't had a day of peace or justice for nearly 100 years now. Way, way, way, way before Hamas was even a thing. 

 

Also, that's a horrendous quote. Did you steal it from Yuval Harrari? lol. 

 

You know you could just have entered this thread and wrote "it is what it is, Palestinians should just continue to die quietly" and be honest with yourself because clearly that's your opinion. Glad I exposed your fake psuedo nuanced other opinion you were trying to insert here. 

Edited December 25, 2023 by Jjang

[Jjang]

anyway, my friend's cousin in Hebron is still under arrest (for quite literally nothing, and by that I mean nothing) and has been kidnapped from his family for nearly a month now. 

 

Should he just follow Miss Harrier's advice and choose peace? let me call my friend to tell his cousin to do a peace sign to the nice soldiers, I'm sure that will get him out and free him in the non-Hamas governed Hebron.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Jjang

[Harrier]

16 minutes ago, Jjang said:

The same was said by apartheid South Africa for 40 years and colonial Algeria for 130 years. If anything, we're closer to a one-state solution conversation than we've ever been in terms of public discourse. The support Palestinians are receiving internationally is also beyond unprecedented. 

 

So basically, in short, you are here to taunt Palestinians in bad faith, tell them they're delusional for believing in a world where they are free, and that the only thing they should strive for is to continue getting murdered and humiliated by Israel day in and day out, but they should do it silently. Your solution is that Palestinians should just accept death.

 

Palestinians haven't had a day of peace or justice for nearly 100 years now. Way, way, way, way before Hamas was even a thing. 

 

Also, that's a horrendous quote. Did you steal it from Yuval Harrari? lol. 

 

You know you could just have entered this thread and wrote "it is what it is, Palestinians should just continue to die quietly" and be honest with yourself because clearly that's your opinion. Glad I exposed your fake psuedo nuanced other opinion you were trying to insert here. 

There is indeed more international support for Palestine now than there was 15 years ago - but why is that? It's because of the death. It's because of the current genocide. This is the matyrdom politics in action. How many tens of thousands more must be sacrificed to Israel's brutality for the one state utopia to become a reality?

 

South Africa was a state ruled by less than 10% of its population. Ditto Algeria. It is in no way comparable to a modern state with a strong ethnic majority. 

 

I use the harsh words I use because I want people to face reality. I don't want Palestinians to be silent and die - I want them to make the best of an unjust situation and do what is right for the safety and security of their children, as many colonised groups around the world have done before. And the first step in that path is the acceptance of Israel's existence.

[State of Grace.]

5 hours ago, Harrier said:

There's nothing I don't "get", miss smug. I know what you people believe and why you believe it.  I also have never made an argument about "angry homosexuals" and have fought against the "Gazans dont support your gay rights" narrative several times. But this is always the case with online leftists - everyone who disagrees in any way is put in the same camp - see the above post as well. I'm a zionist that loves Israel because I think Hamas is bad and supporting them is bad for Palestinans.

 

It's incredibly fascinating how people can get so self righteous and self assured that they think pushing back on open support and celebration of Islamist groups is somehow controversial, and worthy of smug jeering. You can't make up the derangement

I think @Jjang already said it all much more eloquently than I could have so I'll just add my two cents.

 

First of all, no one here was cheering for the Houthis or supporting them. We're just cackling at the Biden Admin getting humiliated again. If you don't see the difference, then that's on you. 

 

Now I do know you're not a Zionist and you haven't been doing Israel apologia like other members here, but you're sincerely not you’re not doing Palestinians or their cause any good with your "I support Palestinians but Hamas is bad for them" energy. 

 

We've also had this exact same conversation several times before and you still don't get it:

On 12/2/2023 at 12:19 PM, State of Grace. said:

Exactly. You simply don't get what resistance is. And you very clearly don't get the difference between acknowledging resistance movements and their right to resist their occupier and oppressor VS agreeing with all of their ways. This has been clear since day one.

On 11/6/2023 at 3:16 PM, State of Grace. said:

I think one of the most bizarre things to me about that user is the fact that they're not even white. You would think someone with his racial background would understand that appealing to the conscience of the oppressor never works and that the whole "responding to violence with violence is bad uwu" is pure bullshit. Like...Civil Rights Movement? Hello? I'm not about to give history lessons  I actually really don't give a single **** if you think I'm a "terrorist", but history has shown us several times that oppressors/occupiers do not "peacefully" leave people and their lands. Nobody likes to see blood being shed, but decolonization always comes with horrific violence. You don't like that? Either don't colonize in the first place or maybe hand people their lands and rights back. Settlers can wake up tomorrow and be like "You know what? We're actually sorry for stealing your lands and treating you as subhuman. We just want to live here with you with the exact same human rights and no privileges or laws of ethnic supremacy." But that **** only happens in fictional movies/books.

Black people fought, struggled, and violently resisted Jim Crow laws and South African Apartheid.

Jewish people violently resisted the Nazi regime in Warsaw.

Irish people violently resisted British rule.

Algerians violently resisted the French colonization.

Ukraine is violently resisting and fighting back.

etc. etc. etc.

 

Do they not deserve our support and sympathy? Would you have stood and told them "hmm maybe you should try protesting peacefully" with a full chest?

 

No matter what Palestinians do, there will always be people like him who claim that they're against the illegal occupation and support a #FreePalestine, but still stand in the way of their liberation because...they don't like the way they're resisting. Anyway, I'm pretty sure this thread has been posted here before but I'll leave it again as a reminder for anyone still asking this question.

 

 

I'm sure you will consider this a "pro-Hamas" talking point, but again, we just recognize the right of occupied people to resist their occupier and respond to +7 decades of brutal occupation. All of this "I just want peace" crap is good and all that, but it remains completely useless when Israel itself doesn't want peace and has never ever existed in peace.

 

People like you were also calling my North African great-grandparents savage terrorists when they were resisting and fighting the French occupation. It's the same talking point. Every single liberation movement in history was labeled a "terrorist organization" by its oppressor.

 

So if there's anyone here cheering on terrorists and violent groups, it's the Israel/IDF apologists and Biden stans constantly arguing against a ceasefire. Now that is pure derangement. 

[Wolf Alice]

12 minutes ago, Harrier said:

I want them to make the best of an unjust situation and do what is right for the safety and security of their children, as many colonised groups around the world have done before

So basically let the oppressors bleed them dry till there is nothing else to give and then maybe rebuild from whatever's left if the oppressors decide to spare something. Must be great typing that from wherever safe place you are in.

[Harrier]

14 minutes ago, State of Grace. said:

I think @Jjang already said it all much more eloquently than I could have so I'll just add my two cents.

 

First of all, no one here was cheering for the Houthis or supporting them. We're just cackling at the Biden Admin getting humiliated again. If you don't see the difference, then that's on you. 

 

Now I do know you're not a Zionist and you haven't been doing Israel apologia like other members here, but you're sincerely not you’re not doing Palestinians or their cause any good with your "I support Palestinians but Hamas is bad for them" energy. 

 

We've also had this exact same conversation several times before and you still don't get it:

I'm sure you will consider this a "pro-Hamas" talking point, but again, we just recognize the right of occupied people to resist their occupier and respond to +7 decades of brutal occupation. All of this "I just want peace" crap is good and all that, but it remains completely useless when Israel itself doesn't want peace and has never ever existed in peace.

 

People like you were also calling my North African great-grandparents savage terrorists when they were resisting and fighting the French occupation. It's the same talking point. Every single liberation movement in history was labeled a "terrorist organization" by its oppressor.

 

So if there's anyone here cheering on terrorists and violent groups, it's the Israel/IDF apologists and Biden stans constantly arguing against a ceasefire. Now that is pure derangement. 

But this is my point though - if we are for ceasefire, as I of course am - is that not the path of peace? Is that not the path of ending violence, including the resistance violence of Hamas?

 

You all are essentially making an argment against ceasefire. You are arguing from the same position as those who chanted "no peace on stolen land" in Brooklyn (  ) a few weeks ago. If groups have the right to resist in whatever manner they see fit - then it follows from that you think that Hamas should continue to fight for years to come, regardless of the toll inflicted on Gazans. This is why I say the pro-violence online left, call people tankies etc. It is a position that is fundamentally against peace.

 

For the record, I do appreciate you not putting me in a box with zionists and Israel apologists - that goes a long way with me, so thank you.

[State of Grace.]

29 minutes ago, Harrier said:

But this is my point though - if we are for ceasefire, as I of course am - is that not the path of peace? Is that not the path of ending violence, including the resistance violence of Hamas?

 

You all are essentially making an argment against ceasefire. You are arguing from the same position as those who chanted "no peace on stolen land" in Brooklyn (  ) a few weeks ago. If groups have the right to resist in whatever manner they see fit - then it follows from that you think that Hamas should continue to fight for years to come, regardless of the toll inflicted on Gazans. This is why I say the pro-violence online left, call people tankies etc. It is a position that is fundamentally against peace.

 

For the record, I do appreciate you not putting me in a box with zionists and Israel apologists - that goes a long way with me, so thank you.

But Hamas is also calling for a permanent ceasefire. They're only rejecting the "temporary humanitarian pause" and "sustainable ceasefire" offers.

 

Quote

Hamas rejects any further temporary pause and says it will discuss only a permanent ceasefire. Israel has ruled that out and says it will agree only limited humanitarian pauses until Hamas is defeated.

 

"Hamas' stance remains: they don't have a desire for humanitarian pauses. Hamas wants a complete end to the Israeli war on Gaza," a Palestinian official said.

 

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu repeated that the war would end only with Hamas eradicated, all hostages freed and Gaza posing no more threat to Israel.

 

"Whoever thinks we will stop is detached from reality...All Hamas terrorists, from the first to the last, are dead men walking," he said in a statement on Wednesday.

 

Israel has faced increasing pressure from its Western allies to curb a military onslaught in Gaza that has laid waste to much of the densely populated coastal enclave.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-battles-hamas-streets-gaza-city-un-delays-vote-again-2023-12-20/

It just goes to show you that Israel couldn't care any less about the hostages and their civilians considering they're refusing to stop until "all Hamas terrorists" (ie all Gazans) are dead.

Edited December 25, 2023 by State of Grace.