news Israel-Palestine Conflict 2023/ 2024 Mega Thread

[Communion]

  On 12/7/2023 at 5:53 PM, Kassi said:

that it's earned its right

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It's clear Israel feels it has the right to do something, but what right that exactly seems to be is terrifying in its implications. 

[Kassi]

  On 12/8/2023 at 12:24 AM, Jjang said:

Why do Zionists keep reciting the same long-debunked talking points from StandWithUs.org 

 

This site was created as a response to that, so #StandWithUs have some argument updates that they need to do 

 

https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/war-of-1967-was-self-defense/

https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/palestinians-sabotaged-the-peace-process/

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Those clearly biased "decolonize Palestine" articles rely so heavily on subjective interpretation of historical events that they're hard to take serious. 

 

Just looking at their perspective on Israel's casus belli for 1967, the blockade of the Straits of Tiran, the arguments are:

• The Strait of Tiran was not a significant trade route for Israel
• The blockade was targeted specifically at Israeli-flagged ships and strategic cargo
• Egypt did not strictly enforce the blockade
• Nassar was on his way to DC to discuss removing the blockade, but Israel just couldn't wait

All this just to admit that there WAS a blockade. But they don't think it was "that bad". Ok 

 

Regardless, this is old news. Israel and Egypt are now regional partners in defense, counterterrorism, and regional stability, while also engaged in joint efforts in areas like energy cooperation and trade.

 

Israel's historic decision to return the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt highlights its willingness to engage in meaningful negotiations and make significant concessions for peace, a gesture that sets a precedent for future dealings with Palestine should they ever decide to come to the table.

[Kassi]

  On 12/8/2023 at 12:24 AM, Jjang said:

Palestinians have the right to return as per the international law. Israel is not doing anyone a favor by recognizing that fact and yet still at no time in history did it ever pursue any meaningful steps towards that. In fact, this resolution gets vetoed by the US and Israel every single time. And the few political figures that attempted to do anything about it throughout history, such as Folke Bernadotte - were brutally assassinated by Israel. 

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And Israel has the right to exist, per the international law... yet Palestinians (and all of their supporters like you) continue to deny it.

 

Do you not see the hypocrisy in that? 

[ClashAndBurn]

 

[Jjang]

  On 12/8/2023 at 3:45 AM, Kassi said:

Those clearly biased "decolonize Palestine" articles rely so heavily on subjective interpretation of historical events that they're hard to take serious. 

 

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The pure projection when the majority of the world thinks that very sentiment about Zionist apologists such as yourself.

 

  On 12/8/2023 at 3:52 AM, Kassi said:

And Israel has the right to exist, per the international law... yet Palestinians (and all of their supporters like you) continue to deny it.

 

Do you not see the hypocrisy in that? 

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Literally no such thing. But thank god Decolonize Palestine already anticipated your redundant remark! 

 

https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/israel-or-any-other-state-has-a-right-to-exist/

Edited December 8, 2023 by Jjang

[Kassi]

  On 12/8/2023 at 10:10 AM, Jjang said:

The pure projection when the majority of the world thinks that very sentiment about Zionist apologists such as yourself.

 

Literally no such thing. But thank god Decolonize Palestine already anticipated your redundant remark! 

 

https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/israel-or-any-other-state-has-a-right-to-exist/

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The closing paragraph of that article:

 

Despite the bravado, Israelis, even if on an unconscious level, know that they will never belong in the region unless they are legitimized by the very people they had to dispossess to build their settler state. They will always be seen as outsiders until the indigenous people validate them. Over 100 years later, and this has yet to occur, and it will not be occurring any time soon.
 

Not this proto-MAGA fear and hatred for descendants of asylum seekers looking for a better life away from the violence and political danger that harmed their communities.

I couldn’t come up with a worse argument if I tried.
 

 

 

[Jjang]

  On 12/8/2023 at 11:30 AM, Kassi said:

The closing paragraph of that article:

 

Despite the bravado, Israelis, even if on an unconscious level, know that they will never belong in the region unless they are legitimized by the very people they had to dispossess to build their settler state. They will always be seen as outsiders until the indigenous people validate them. Over 100 years later, and this has yet to occur, and it will not be occurring any time soon.

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tea 

 

and truth remains that there’s no such thing as “Israel’s right to exist” recognized in international law while Palestinians having the right of return is. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Jjang

[Kassi]

^Unfortunately that tea is cold

 

Source: https://commons.princeton.edu/mg/movement-of-jews-in-arabic-countries-to-israel/

[Jjang]

*posts an infographic showing some Jews also lived in Iraq, Iran, Morocco, Yemen etc. to prove they have more rights to Palestine than Palestinians living in Palestine* 

 

 

Anyway, back to how you lied about Israel having the right to exist as a Zionist state as per international law 

 

  Quote

Unlike self-determination, the right to exist is an attribute of states rather than of peoples. It is not a right recognized in international law.

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Ms. “1967 was purely a defensive war” really trying to scramble 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Jjang

[A.R.L]

  On 12/8/2023 at 12:19 PM, Jjang said:

*posts an infographic showing some Jews also lived in Iraq, Iran, Morocco, Yemen etc. to prove they have more rights to Palestine than Palestinians living in Palestine* 

 

 

 

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Well, since they weren’t welcomed there most of the times, even when they were Arabized like the Amazigh in North Africa (who most of them  and Jews have no problem with that), then it IS their right to go and live in their lands to which they belong first, especially when talking about Jerusalem, the most sacred place in Judaism

[Communion]

  On 12/8/2023 at 2:48 PM, A.R.L said:

Well, since they weren’t welcomed there most of the times, even when they were Arabized like the Amazigh in North Africa (who most of them  and Jews have no problem with that), then it IS their right to go and live in their lands to which they belong first, especially when talking about Jerusalem, the most sacred place in Judaism

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No one belongs to any land like as though "belonging" is some abstract mythical birthright that entitles depopulation and displacement. 

 

Why do you think it is that the vast majority of non-European Jewry didn't migrate to Israel until long after 1948?

 

How does one reconcile that anti-Israel sentiment was a backlash and (unjustified) reactionary hatred towards Jews across the MENA with the reality of things like Israel organizing false flag bomb attacks and acts of terrorism to try and accelerate the migration of Mizrahi Jews to Israel?

Edited December 8, 2023 by Communion

[Jjang]

  On 12/8/2023 at 2:48 PM, A.R.L said:

Well, since they weren’t welcomed there most of the times, even when they were Arabized like the Amazigh in North Africa (who most of them  and Jews have no problem with that), then it IS their right to go and live in their lands to which they belong first, especially when talking about Jerusalem, the most sacred place in Judaism

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I don't know who taught you logic but no that does not mean they can establish an apartheid state on top of an already existing indigenous population in Palestine. 

[ClashAndBurn]

  On 12/8/2023 at 3:00 PM, Communion said:

No one belongs to any land like as though "belonging" is some abstract mythical birthright that entitles depopulation and displacement. 

 

Why do you think it is that the vast majority of non-European Jewry didn't migrate to Israel until long after 1948?

 

How does one reconcile that anti-Israel sentiment was a backlash and (unjustified) reactionary hatred towards Jews across the MENA with the reality of things like Israel organizing false flag bomb attacks and acts of terrorism to try and accelerate the migration of Mizrahi Jews to Israel?

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It genuinely boggles my mind that a Beyoncé stan could ever be supportive of…

 

 

…this.

[Kassi]

  On 12/8/2023 at 12:19 PM, Jjang said:

*posts an infographic showing some Jews also lived in Iraq, Iran, Morocco, Yemen etc. to prove they have more rights to Palestine than Palestinians living in Palestine* 

 

 

Anyway, back to how you lied about Israel having the right to exist as a Zionist state as per international law 

 

 

Ms. “1967 was purely a defensive war” really trying to scramble 

 

 

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On Navitism

 

Why do you hate immigrants? It’s giving MAGA. It’s giving “Jews will not replace us!”.
 

The entire point is that neither have more rights, but that both have shared rights to the land. Unfortunately, the Arabs said **** that, and 5 Muslim countries sought to annihilate a nascent nation instead of accepting, what could have been today, a 23rd state to the League of Arab Nations.
 

On the “Right to Exist”
 

The notion that “Israel shouldn’t exist” implies that some countries do have such a right. So if Israel, a UN Member state, does not have the ~right to exist~, then technically no country does. But they all do exist anyway, so the point is moot. 

 

If “Israel shouldn’t exist” is short hand for “Israel has no moral basis for defending their territory or citizens”… then I ask, who exactly is going to unmake them and how? 

[Kassi]

  On 12/8/2023 at 3:15 PM, ClashAndBurn said:

It genuinely boggles my mind that a Beyoncé stan could ever be supportive of…

 

 

…this.

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Please don’t bring black civil rights into this.
 

Not only is it tacky and irrelevant, but it’s already been attempted by Twitter-brained “activists” to force an anti-Israel statement out of Beyoncé (spoiler: it didn’t work). 

 

 

Source for full context: https://www.rabbinicalassembly.org/sites/default/files/assets/public/resources-ideas/cj/classics/1-4-12-civil-rights/conversation-with-martin-luther-king.pdf

[ClashAndBurn]

"Serving MAGA" is the selective use of MLK quotes out of context to prove points that lack logical substance. Byeeeeeee  

Edit: Not to mention, "tacky" is pretending MLK is the only Civil Rights voice there is to reference - again, also a MAGA trait  

Edited December 8, 2023 by ClashAndBurn

[Kassi]

  On 12/8/2023 at 5:20 PM, ClashAndBurn said:

Edit: Not to mention, "tacky" is pretending MLK is the only Civil Rights voice there is to reference - again, also a MAGA trait  

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What do you want from me, mama? 

 

 

Have I not expressed the same nuanced views as MLK and Mandela in my summation:

 

  On 12/6/2023 at 6:12 AM, Kassi said:

Ya'll will spout platitudes in the abstract, yet crumble at basic probes about the specifics. 

 

Anyway, here's the cheat sheet to the curriculum:

1. Jews have no ancestral claim to the land of Palestine. Jewish presence in Palestine was driven by refuge-seeking diaspora Jewish populations of all ethnic backgrounds
2. The emergence of the state of Israel was a complex interplay of Zionist aspirations and Palestinian Arab nationalism

3. The two-state solution was a concession to the idea that an outside party, the British, could not obligate people to participate non-violently in plurinationalism...without becoming the Ottoman Empire.

4. The fact of Israel is not Zionism in and of itself; Zionism was causal but the existence of the state is not itself an ideology

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Don't tell me your civil rights "reference" is like... the Nation of Islam. 

 

[A.R.L]

  On 12/8/2023 at 3:00 PM, Communion said:

No one belongs to any land like as though "belonging" is some abstract mythical birthright that entitles depopulation and displacement. 

 

Why do you think it is that the vast majority of non-European Jewry didn't migrate to Israel until long after 1948?

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That in case Israel settled in Iraq, Yemen, Morocco or Ethiopia for example based on the fact that the Jews were there first before  the Muslims. Of course, in that case, we would say that no one belongs to any land...It's as if the Romans claim land in North Africa because they were there first. Which is conceptually incorrect.

 

But in the event that you have a sacred book that says that Jerusalem is the center of the earth and the home of God making it most sacred place with holy places built for them first, well, in that case we aren’t talking about any land but of a land to die for.

 

It’s exactly how Mecca and the Medina belong to the Muslims or how the Vatican belongs to the Christians. That's how it is, religion is silly, but it's an inevitable fact.

 

  On 12/8/2023 at 3:02 PM, Jjang said:

I don't know who taught you logic but no that does not mean they can establish an apartheid state on top of an already existing indigenous population in Palestine. 

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Sis, no one in this case established anything above anything else. I admit that Israel is very aggressive in wars, they also have many war crimes against them for which they have to be accountable, no one denies it, even many of the Israelis themselves. But seriously, we cannot deny the fact that the lack of recognition against Israel as well as the widely accepted anti-Semitism in the Islamic world and the continuous provocations against Israel contributed to many bloody wars, as well as many restrictions and loss of lands

 .

Edited December 8, 2023 by A.R.L

[Kassi]

 

Her comments, along with those of the other two university presidents, were actually insane.

 

Hope she is fired.

[DAP]

We surely aren’t talking about the same Nelson Mandela who defined “secure borders” rather explicitly in a town hall speech? Where he says “We do not mean that Israel has the right to retain the territories they conquered from the Arab world, like the Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights and the West Bank. We don’t agree with that. Those territories should be returned to the Arab people“? 

 

So true that certain people shouldn’t be invoking names they know nothing about. So stick to talking about Beyonce because that’s all you know miss mawmas.

 

[Jjang]

  On 12/8/2023 at 7:10 PM, A.R.L said:

 

Sis, no one in this case established anything above anything else.

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[GraceRandolph]

 

[Kassi]

  On 12/8/2023 at 7:25 PM, DAP said:

We surely aren’t talking about the same Nelson Mandela who defined “secure borders” rather explicitly in a town hall speech? Where he says “We do not mean that Israel has the right to retain the territories they conquered from the Arab world, like the Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights and the West Bank. We don’t agree with that. Those territories should be returned to the Arab people“? 

 

So true that certain people shouldn’t be invoking names they know nothing about. So stick to talking about Beyonce because that’s all you know miss mawmas.

 

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Keep up!

Once you let go of the anti-Semitic trope that "Israel shouldn't exist", you begin to think more rationally.

 

[DAP]

You aren’t helping your case miss mawmas

 

____________

 

[nooniebao]