news Israel-Palestine Conflict 2023/ 2024 Mega Thread

[RihRihGirrrl]

6 minutes ago, Harrier said:

No I'm saying it is logical to say that Israel are making this faulty argument, sorry for the misunderstanding sis 

 

Oh ok gotcha...I agree! 

[Kassi]

4 hours ago, Jjang said:

the illegal military occupation of the West Bank (where Hamas does not rule) has been present and expanding for 60 years. That’s 40 years before either Hamas or Netanyahu came to political power. 

 

If Israel is so generous and kind why won’t they offer to withdraw their illegal settlements & nearly one million illegal settlers alike from Palestinian territories? Instead, they’re arming those wildly racist illegal settlers and giving them full impunity to take matters to their own hands. And I’m talking before the escalation of October 7th; the burning of Huwara village by illegal terrorist Jewish settlers happened in February and with full support of the Israeli army. 

 

Israel has a problem with Palestinians living freely in their own homeland. That’s the final boss. Not Netanyahu. 

 

Israel offered to withdraw from the West Bank, which it had acquired in a defensive war prompted by its neighbors to once again destroy it, during the Camp David Summit in 2000. Palestine declined the deal.
 

In the final offers at Camp David, the offer was for 92% of the West Bank, all of Gaza, and a split of Jerusalem. 
 

The followup offer at the Taba Summit was for 94% of the West Bank and a 3% land swap to account for major settlement blocs, in addition to financial compensation for displaced civilians.

Arafat declined, openly supported the Second Intifada, Israel gave up on negotiations and Israelis elected Sharon. Palestine has a problem with Israel existing in peace.

[ZeroSuitBritney]

8 minutes ago, Kassi said:

In the final offers at Camp David, the offer was for 92% of the West Bank, all of Gaza, and a split of Jerusalem.

 

Palestine has a problem with Israel existing in peace.

The majority of Israel would not exist if ruthless evil tactics were not used to drive Palestinians out of their original villages and homes. The "Palestinians had one chance to accept what was offered to them peacefully and turned it down so it's their fault we are here now" being used after decades of terrorization and murder to get an offer that still wouldn't give the original land owners their right of return to half the land is absolutely wild. You sound chaotic. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by ZeroSuitBritney

[State of Grace.]

21 minutes ago, Kassi said:

 

Palestine has a problem with Israel existing 

Well yes. Because it shouldn't exist in the first place.

 

The mental gymnastics to justify the current situation are very transparent. "Palestinians refused to accept Israel's offers that had settlers illegally occupying Palestinian land and giving them some of it so they had it coming" is such a silly and low talking point, but it perfectly aligns  with your posting history. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by State of Grace.

[Kassi]

1 hour ago, ZeroSuitBritney said:

The majority of Israel would not exist if ruthless evil tactics were not used to drive Palestinians out of their original villages and homes. The "Palestinians had one chance to accept what was offered to them peacefully and turned it down so it's their fault we are here now" being used after decades of terrorization and murder to get an offer that still wouldn't give the original land owners their right of return to half the land is absolutely wild. You sound chaotic. 

There have many multiple peace offers.

 

For example, in 2005, Israel unilaterally disengaged from Gaza, withdrawing its military and dismantling all Israeli settlements.

 

And look at where we are now. That is chaotic.

[Communion]

9 minutes ago, Kassi said:

There have many multiple peace offers.

 

For example, in 2005, Israel unilaterally disengaged from Gaza, withdrawing its military and dismantling all Israeli settlements.

 

And look at where we are now. That is chaotic.

Disengaged from Gaza but forcefully remained in control of all water, gas and electrical resources?

 

You're genuinely a vlllain in this rhetoric. You know what you're saying is wrong. People like you get paid handsomely to be this wrong. 

[Kassi]

1 hour ago, State of Grace. said:

Well yes. Because it shouldn't exist in the first place.

 

The mental gymnastics to justify the current situation are very transparent. "Palestinians refused to accept Israel's offers that had settlers illegally occupying Palestinian land and giving them some of it so they had it coming" is such a silly and low talking point, but it perfectly aligns  with your posting history. 

No mental gymnastics needed. I'll even simply it further for you: 

 

World War -> Immigration Crisis -> Civil War

 

We can agree that Israel shouldn't exist, but likely for different reasons. My reasons are that Israel was outnumbered, outgunned, and abandoned in 1948.

 

Israel's ability to withstand overwhelming odds and survive is proof enough that it's earned its right to exist.

[State of Grace.]

6 minutes ago, Kassi said:

Israel's ability to withstand overwhelming odds and survive is proof enough that it's earned its right to exist.

"earned its right to exist" when it's an illegal state built on the backs, bones, and blood of genocided and ethnically cleansed Palestinians? 

 

Despicable.

[Kassi]

1 hour ago, Communion said:

Disengaged from Gaza but forcefully remained in control of all water, gas and electrical resources?

 

You're genuinely a villain in this rhetoric. You know what you're saying is wrong. People like you get paid handsomely to be this wrong. 

Speaking of villains, this was Hamas's charter when they were elected in January 2006, just 4 months after Israel completed disengagement in Gaza:

 

------------

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.

...

The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam.

It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine."

 

Source: https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

------------

 

I don't now know. Doesn't sound like really great neighbors to relinquish control of all water, gas, and electricity to. What do you think? 

[ZeroSuitBritney]

5 minutes ago, Kassi said:

There have many multiple peace offers.

 

For example, in 2005, Israel unilaterally disengaged from Gaza, withdrawing its military and dismantling all Israeli settlements.

 

And look at where we are now. That is chaotic.

Please read my post again. The only part of you countering is that there were more than one offer, which may be true. 
 

As expected, you are completely ignoring every other aspect of my post because it is historically accurate and verifiable. Essentially what you’re saying is as follows:

 

”Israel withdrew all its military and settlements in Gaza, so now it’s just for the millions of Gazan refugees who were unwillingly forced there due to the Zionist Israel’s invasion of their neighborhoods and land and mass murders of their people. Palestinians in Gaza should have accepted this withdrawal and live happily in this open air prison because Israel has now given them sole residency of it even though the majority of them, if not all, would much prefer to leave Gaza and go back to their neighborhoods which Israel terrorized them out of.”

 

You are quite deranged. Do you listen to yourself when you post or even think? Either you are uniformed about the creation of Israel and the annexation of both the West Bank and Gaza, or you are well aware and trying to justify it and put the blame on Palestinians for not accepting to live (with struggle) in their own homeland without any rights or self determination.

 

Mental illness on full display over here folks.

[Kassi]

13 minutes ago, State of Grace. said:

"earned its right to exist" when it's an illegal state built on the backs, bones, and blood of genocided and ethnically cleansed Palestinians? 

 

Despicable.

Ok.

 

Then you tell me, what do you think should have happened to the half a million Jewish immigrants to Palestine in 1948 after the British left?

[Kassi]

29 minutes ago, ZeroSuitBritney said:

Please read my post again. The only part of you countering is that there were more than one offer, which may be true. 
 

As expected, you are completely ignoring every other aspect of my post because it is historically accurate and verifiable. Essentially what you’re saying is as follows:

 

”Israel withdrew all its military and settlements in Gaza, so now it’s just for the millions of Gazan refugees who were unwillingly forced there due to the Zionist Israel’s invasion of their neighborhoods and land and mass murders of their people. Palestinians in Gaza should have accepted this withdrawal and live happily in this open air prison because Israel has now given them sole residency of it even though the majority of them, if not all, would much prefer to leave Gaza and go back to their neighborhoods which Israel terrorized them out of.”

 

You are quite deranged. Do you listen to yourself when you post or even think? Either you are uniformed about the creation of Israel and the annexation of both the West Bank and Gaza, or you are well aware and trying to justify it and put the blame on Palestinians for not accepting to live (with struggle) in their own homeland without any rights or self determination.

 

Mental illness on full display over here folks.

I addressed what I assumed was your core point: that Israel had not presented multiple peace offers.

 

If your core point is that there was a civil war that displaced civilians, then I've already pointed out that Arab leaders led Palestinians astray with their rejection of the UN Partition.

 

20 hours ago, Kassi said:

A plan that was predicated on the following demographic split:

 

Territory	Arab and other population	% Arab and other	Jewish population	% Jewish	Total population
Arab State	725,000	99%	10,000	1%	735,000
Jewish State	407,000	45%	498,000	55%	905,000
International	105,000	51%	100,000	49%	205,000
Total	1,237,000	67%	608,000	33%	1,845,000

 

Source: United Nations Special Committee of Palestine: 3 September 1947: CHAPTER 4: A COMMENTARY ON PARTITION

 

If the Arabs had accepted the plan, the tiny Jewish State would have been born with a 45% Arab minority. It's unlikely that the State would have survived as a Jewish one beyond its first elections. 

 

This would have taken us down a different historical path. But we'll never know what that would have looked like.

[Jjang]

8 hours ago, Kassi said:

Israel offered to withdraw from the West Bank, which it had acquired in a defensive war prompted by its neighbors to once again destroy it, during the Camp David Summit in 2000. Palestine declined the deal.
 

In the final offers at Camp David, the offer was for 92% of the West Bank, all of Gaza, and a split of Jerusalem. 
 

The followup offer at the Taba Summit was for 94% of the West Bank and a 3% land swap to account for major settlement blocs, in addition to financial compensation for displaced civilians.

Arafat declined, openly supported the Second Intifada, Israel gave up on negotiations and Israelis elected Sharon. Palestine has a problem with Israel existing in peace.

Why do Zionists keep reciting the same long-debunked talking points from StandWithUs.org 

 

This site was created as a response to that, so #StandWithUs have some argument updates that they need to do 

 

https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/war-of-1967-was-self-defense/

https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/palestinians-sabotaged-the-peace-process/

 

 

 

Palestinians have the right to return as per the international law. Israel is not doing anyone a favor by recognizing that fact and yet still at no time in history did it ever pursue any meaningful steps towards that. In fact, this resolution gets vetoed by the US and Israel every single time. And the few political figures that attempted to do anything about it throughout history, such as Folke Bernadotte - were brutally assassinated by Israel. 

 

Anyway,

There's something sick about Zionists begging us to coddle them and sympathize with the plea that they deserve to exist in dignity all while there's a real genocide taking place as we speak that threatens the actual existence of an entire group of people. You're not the victim. The world does not revolve around you. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Jjang

[Communion]

6 hours ago, Kassi said:

that it's earned its right

It's clear Israel feels it has the right to do something, but what right that exactly seems to be is terrifying in its implications. 

[Kassi]

3 hours ago, Jjang said:

Why do Zionists keep reciting the same long-debunked talking points from StandWithUs.org 

 

This site was created as a response to that, so #StandWithUs have some argument updates that they need to do 

 

https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/war-of-1967-was-self-defense/

https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/palestinians-sabotaged-the-peace-process/

Those clearly biased "decolonize Palestine" articles rely so heavily on subjective interpretation of historical events that they're hard to take serious. 

 

Just looking at their perspective on Israel's casus belli for 1967, the blockade of the Straits of Tiran, the arguments are:

• The Strait of Tiran was not a significant trade route for Israel
• The blockade was targeted specifically at Israeli-flagged ships and strategic cargo
• Egypt did not strictly enforce the blockade
• Nassar was on his way to DC to discuss removing the blockade, but Israel just couldn't wait

All this just to admit that there WAS a blockade. But they don't think it was "that bad". Ok 

 

Regardless, this is old news. Israel and Egypt are now regional partners in defense, counterterrorism, and regional stability, while also engaged in joint efforts in areas like energy cooperation and trade.

 

Israel's historic decision to return the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt highlights its willingness to engage in meaningful negotiations and make significant concessions for peace, a gesture that sets a precedent for future dealings with Palestine should they ever decide to come to the table.

[Kassi]

3 hours ago, Jjang said:

Palestinians have the right to return as per the international law. Israel is not doing anyone a favor by recognizing that fact and yet still at no time in history did it ever pursue any meaningful steps towards that. In fact, this resolution gets vetoed by the US and Israel every single time. And the few political figures that attempted to do anything about it throughout history, such as Folke Bernadotte - were brutally assassinated by Israel. 

And Israel has the right to exist, per the international law... yet Palestinians (and all of their supporters like you) continue to deny it.

 

Do you not see the hypocrisy in that? 

[ClashAndBurn]

 

[Jjang]

7 hours ago, Kassi said:

Those clearly biased "decolonize Palestine" articles rely so heavily on subjective interpretation of historical events that they're hard to take serious. 

 

The pure projection when the majority of the world thinks that very sentiment about Zionist apologists such as yourself.

 

7 hours ago, Kassi said:

And Israel has the right to exist, per the international law... yet Palestinians (and all of their supporters like you) continue to deny it.

 

Do you not see the hypocrisy in that? 

Literally no such thing. But thank god Decolonize Palestine already anticipated your redundant remark! 

 

https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/israel-or-any-other-state-has-a-right-to-exist/

Edited December 8, 2023 by Jjang

[Kassi]

1 hour ago, Jjang said:

The pure projection when the majority of the world thinks that very sentiment about Zionist apologists such as yourself.

 

Literally no such thing. But thank god Decolonize Palestine already anticipated your redundant remark! 

 

https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/israel-or-any-other-state-has-a-right-to-exist/

The closing paragraph of that article:

 

Despite the bravado, Israelis, even if on an unconscious level, know that they will never belong in the region unless they are legitimized by the very people they had to dispossess to build their settler state. They will always be seen as outsiders until the indigenous people validate them. Over 100 years later, and this has yet to occur, and it will not be occurring any time soon.
 

Not this proto-MAGA fear and hatred for descendants of asylum seekers looking for a better life away from the violence and political danger that harmed their communities.

I couldn’t come up with a worse argument if I tried.
 

 

 

[Jjang]

2 hours ago, Kassi said:

The closing paragraph of that article:

 

Despite the bravado, Israelis, even if on an unconscious level, know that they will never belong in the region unless they are legitimized by the very people they had to dispossess to build their settler state. They will always be seen as outsiders until the indigenous people validate them. Over 100 years later, and this has yet to occur, and it will not be occurring any time soon.

tea 

 

and truth remains that there’s no such thing as “Israel’s right to exist” recognized in international law while Palestinians having the right of return is. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Jjang

[Kassi]

^Unfortunately that tea is cold

 

Source: https://commons.princeton.edu/mg/movement-of-jews-in-arabic-countries-to-israel/

[Jjang]

*posts an infographic showing some Jews also lived in Iraq, Iran, Morocco, Yemen etc. to prove they have more rights to Palestine than Palestinians living in Palestine* 

 

 

Anyway, back to how you lied about Israel having the right to exist as a Zionist state as per international law 

 

Quote

Unlike self-determination, the right to exist is an attribute of states rather than of peoples. It is not a right recognized in international law.

 

Ms. “1967 was purely a defensive war” really trying to scramble 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Jjang

[A.R.L]

2 hours ago, Jjang said:

*posts an infographic showing some Jews also lived in Iraq, Iran, Morocco, Yemen etc. to prove they have more rights to Palestine than Palestinians living in Palestine* 

 

 

 

Well, since they weren’t welcomed there most of the times, even when they were Arabized like the Amazigh in North Africa (who most of them  and Jews have no problem with that), then it IS their right to go and live in their lands to which they belong first, especially when talking about Jerusalem, the most sacred place in Judaism

[Communion]

13 minutes ago, A.R.L said:

Well, since they weren’t welcomed there most of the times, even when they were Arabized like the Amazigh in North Africa (who most of them  and Jews have no problem with that), then it IS their right to go and live in their lands to which they belong first, especially when talking about Jerusalem, the most sacred place in Judaism

No one belongs to any land like as though "belonging" is some abstract mythical birthright that entitles depopulation and displacement. 

 

Why do you think it is that the vast majority of non-European Jewry didn't migrate to Israel until long after 1948?

 

How does one reconcile that anti-Israel sentiment was a backlash and (unjustified) reactionary hatred towards Jews across the MENA with the reality of things like Israel organizing false flag bomb attacks and acts of terrorism to try and accelerate the migration of Mizrahi Jews to Israel?

Edited December 8, 2023 by Communion

[Jjang]

5 minutes ago, A.R.L said:

Well, since they weren’t welcomed there most of the times, even when they were Arabized like the Amazigh in North Africa (who most of them  and Jews have no problem with that), then it IS their right to go and live in their lands to which they belong first, especially when talking about Jerusalem, the most sacred place in Judaism

I don't know who taught you logic but no that does not mean they can establish an apartheid state on top of an already existing indigenous population in Palestine.