news Israel-Palestine Conflict 2023/ 2024 Mega Thread

[Communion]

1 minute ago, Kassi said:

I’m asking “Where did Jews come from?”

Only people who think something super magical and otherworldly happens when the world's Jewish population all convene in one place ask this question, fyi! 

[ClashAndBurn]

I’m 100% positive the ATRL Zionists and resident Islamophobe will have absolutely nothing to say about this.

[FOCK]

14 minutes ago, Kassi said:

I’m not asking “Where do Jews go?”

 

I’m asking “Where did Jews come from?”

 

It’s a very simple question. 

Yes, it is.

 

Maybe have a little think about it. 

[ClashAndBurn]

every single one of these chucklefucks should be primaried
 

Here are the 95 Democrats who voted for the “Anti-Zionism is antisemitism” resolution:

• Alma Adams
• Colin Allred
• Gabe Amo
• Jake Auchincloss
• Ami Bera 
• Sanford D. Bishop Jr.
• Lisa Blunt Rochester
• Julia Brownley
• Nikki Budzinski
• Yadira Caraveo
• Salud Carbajal 
• Matt Cartwright
• Kathy Castor
• Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick
• Steve Cohen
• Jim Costa
• Joe Courtney
• Angie Craig
• Jason Crow
• Henry Cuellar
• Don Davis
• Rosa DeLauro
• Chris Deluzio
• Anna Eshoo
• Lizzie Fletcher
• Lois Frankel
• Maxwell Frost
• Ruben Gallego
• Jared Golden
• Vicente Gonzalez
• Josh Gottheimer
• Josh Harder
• Jahana Hayes
• Brian Higgins
• Jim Himes
• Steven Horsford
• Steny Hoyer
• Jared Huffman 
• Jeff Jackson
• William Keating
• Derek Kilmer
• Ann Kuster
• Greg Landsman
• John Larson
• Susie Lee
• Mike Levin
• Stephen Lynch
• Kathy Manning
• Doris Matsui
• Kweisi Mfume
• Joe Morelle
• Jared Moskowitz
• Seth Moulton
• Frank J. Mrvan
• Richard Neal
• Joe Neguse
• Wiley Nickel
• Donald Norcross
• Frank Pallone Jr.
• Jimmy Panetta
• Chris Pappas
• Bill Pascrell Jr.
• Mary Peltola
• Marie Gluesenkamp Pérez
• Scott Peters
• Brittany Pettersen
• Mike Quigley
• C.A. Dutch Ruppersberger
• Adam Schiff
• Brad Schneider
• Hillary Scholten
• Kim Schrier
• David Scott
• Terri Sewell
• Brad Sherman
• Elissa Slotkin
• Adam Smith
• Eric Sorensen
• Darren Soto
• Abigail Spanberger
• Melanie Stansbury
• Greg Stanton
• Haley Stevens
• Eric Swalwell
• Emilia Sykes
• Shri Thanedar 
• Mike Thompson
• Dina Titus
• Norma Torres
• Ritchie Torres
• David Trone
• Juan Vargas
• Marc Veasey
• Debbie Wasserman Schultz
• Frederica Wilson

Edited December 6, 2023 by ClashAndBurn

[Kassi]

18 minutes ago, Communion said:

Only people who think something super magical and otherworldly happens when the world's Jewish population all convene in one place ask this question, fyi! 

You’re all over the place, ma. 

 

But ok, let’s concede that Zionists were/are delusional. Melisandre, the red priestess, led Moses to a burning bush in Essos where he spoke with the Lord of Light, R’hllor, about a promised land for the Jews in Palestine… or something like that. I get it, and I agree. The idea of tracing a 3,000-year-old ancestral connection to a specific region based on a storybook is unrealistic. 

 

I still need you to answer very plainly: Where did the 6% of the world's Jewry living in Israel in 1948 originate from?

[Kassi]

13 minutes ago, FOCK said:

Yes, it is.

 

Maybe have a little think about it. 

You could also say it, since you seem to know. Let the rest of us know.

[RihRihGirrrl]

9 minutes ago, Kassi said:

You could also say it, since you seem to know. Let the rest of us know.

What are you arguing here? No one is saying that Jews should be banned from the land....living on the land and creating a Jewish ethno-state ran by Zionest are two completely different things.....Arab Jews lived on the land alongside Arab Muslims and Christians long before the arrival of Zionists and their creation of Isreal as a colonial state

Edited December 6, 2023 by RihRihGirrrl

[FOCK]

18 minutes ago, Kassi said:

You could also say it, since you seem to know. Let the rest of us know.

Your question is ridiculous. 
Judaism isn’t an ethnicity or nationality, it’s a belief system. It’s as ridiculous as asking “where do Muslims come from?” 
 

One can explain where a belief system originated, but then the spread and dissemination of that belief system is based on innumerable variables & circumstances. 
 

The adoption of “Jewishness” as an ethnicity is a fairly recent phenomenon, that Zionism played a large role in conceptualising.

 

If I traced back my lineage 3000 years, I too would have a claim to Palestine. It’s an absurd framing. 
 

Where someone “comes from” is largely understood as where someone has established, identifiable familial, communal or residential roots. 
 

None of this bares any relevance to the ongoing genocide of Palestinians & is, as I said, a deflection tactic I’ll no longer entertain.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by FOCK

[Communion]

16 minutes ago, Kassi said:

originate from

Sis, it only emphasizes the ridiculousness of your questioning the more you repeat yourself over and over.

 

There is not one singular place from which Jewish (or Christian or Muslim) people living in Israel and Palestine come 'from' (whatever this is meant to mean in the abstract), which makes your questioning nonsensical.

 

A Jewish person from Antartica of all places should have the right to live in anywhere in the Middle East.

The issue of Israel's occupation of Palestine is centrally caused, however, by the Zionist project of destroying Palestine in order to build a Jewish ethno-state on top of it.

 

The conflict is solely occurring due to a settler colonial movement stating that the people who have lived on the land for the last 600-700 years must be expelled from it or killed.

[Communion]

Anyway, I can only imagine people are more interested in philosophical debates about where people originate from (whether Pangea or our mothers' wombs) because this is what is coming out about Netanyahu, the IDF, and the alleged intelligence of the Israeli state apparatus:

 

“******* give Hamas back whoever they want and bring everyone back.”

 

“And this is all you have to say [about the pause in exchanges]? That you want to collapse Hamas’ rule? You want to show them who has bigger balls??”

 

“You have no intel. Look how we were bombed. It’s a fact that no one knew anything about our whereabouts.”

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Communion

[Kassi]

28 minutes ago, Communion said:

The issue of Israel's occupation of Palestine is centrally caused, however, by the Zionist project of destroying Palestine in order to build a Jewish ethno-state on top of it.

How did the Zionist project "destroy" Palestine to build a Jewish ethnostate on top of it?

[Kassi]

Ya'll will spout platitudes in the abstract, yet crumble at basic probes about the specifics. 

 

Anyway, here's the cheat sheet to the curriculum:

1. Jews have no ancestral claim to the land of Palestine. Jewish presence in Palestine was driven by refuge-seeking diaspora Jewish populations of all ethnic backgrounds
2. The emergence of the state of Israel was a complex interplay of Zionist aspirations and Palestinian Arab nationalism

3. The two-state solution was a concession to the idea that an outside party, the British, could not obligate people to participate non-violently in plurinationalism...without becoming the Ottoman Empire.

4. The fact of Israel is not Zionism in and of itself; Zionism was causal but the existence of the state is not itself an ideology

 

[Communion]

35 minutes ago, Kassi said:

How did the Zionist project "destroy" Palestine to build a Jewish ethnostate on top of it?

You tell us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In fact, let's ask former President Barack Obama to get his views:

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Communion

[Kassi]

^All of that has come well after the creation of the state of Israel as a consequence of the various existential threats posed against Jews and their state.

 

Completely unnecessary and avoidable.

[Harrier]

1 hour ago, Communion said:

Anyway, I can only imagine people are more interested in philosophical debates about where people originate from (whether Pangea or our mothers' wombs) because this is what is coming out about Netanyahu, the IDF, and the alleged intelligence of the Israeli state apparatus:

 

“******* give Hamas back whoever they want and bring everyone back.”

 

“And this is all you have to say [about the pause in exchanges]? That you want to collapse Hamas’ rule? You want to show them who has bigger balls??”

 

“You have no intel. Look how we were bombed. It’s a fact that no one knew anything about our whereabouts.”

 

This is why the only moral & also logical response from Israel's perspective should have been restrained military action, perhaps through targeted special operations to retrieve hostages, as well as negotiations. Yet now, it is a certainty that the IDF are responsible for some hostage deaths. Obviously Hamas have responsibility there too, but if someone takes your mum hostage and you shoot her both her and her captor... you still killed her. Not that complicated.

 

Instead they are waging what essentially amounts to a war of conquest and most of their traditional allies outside of the United States grow more cynical about them by the day. But that's what happens when your country is run by right wing idealogues who are more interested in their genocidal geopolitical goals than protecting life. 

 

It's too late for the moral or logical path, but it's not too late for the hostages. Negotiate a ceasefire. Get the them out. It seems to obvious if you're not a lunatic. But Bibi won't.

 

[welham]

6 minutes ago, Harrier said:

But that's what happens when your country is run by right wing idealogues who are more interested in their genocidal geopolitical goals than protecting life. 

 

It's too late for the moral or logical path, but it's not too late for the hostages. Negotiate a ceasefire. Get the them out. It seems to obvious if you're not a lunatic. But Bibi won't.

 

I'm sorry, but this is such a tired talking point. The vast majority of Jewish Israelis, the only group with actual power in the land, have consistently shown support the IDF's actions in the way, with a good chunk believing more "should be done". This sentiment transcends the left-center-right paradigm of politics, and even the minority anti-war Jews face life-threatening rhetoric over their position. Center and center-left (and even some supposed leftists) are at the forefront of the attack on Gaza just as much as the right-wing.

 

Saying "Bibi bad, current government bad! No Bibi = no warcrimes" is naive at best and disingenuous gaslighting at worst. 

[Harrier]

2 minutes ago, welham said:

I'm sorry, but this is such a tired talking point. The vast majority of Jewish Israelis, the only group with actual power in the land, have consistently shown support the IDF's actions in the way, with a good chunk believing more "should be done". This sentiment transcends the left-center-right paradigm of politics, and even the minority anti-war Jews face life-threatening rhetoric over their position. Center and center-left (and even some supposed leftists) are at the forefront of the attack on Gaza just as much as the right-wing.

 

Saying "Bibi bad, current government bad! No Bibi = no warcrimes" is naive at best and disingenuous gaslighting at worst. 

You're so right I forgot that most Jewish Israeli civillians are bad, sorry sis!

Your argument is the exact same one used to justify the IDF's crimes against Palestinians in Gaza and is dangerous territory. This is part of why your side is constantly accused of antisemitism.

 

Hold the right wing government of Israel and the IDF accountable, by all means. And any potential future left wing government too. But these narratives about how everyone in Israel is a supervillain... yeah it's a no from me. Public opinion during periods of conflict is messy, and also changeable. Let's be careful using it for justifying our geopolitical goals, whatever they may be.

[welham]

15 minutes ago, Harrier said:

You're so right I forgot that most Jewish Israeli civillians are bad, sorry sis!

Your argument is the exact same one used to justify the IDF's crimes against Palestinians in Gaza and is dangerous territory. This is part of why your side is constantly accused of antisemitism.

If you don't see the difference, then you're just hopeless

[Delirious]

I'm sorry but didn't both literally try to do a ceasefire last week until the Hamas not only decided to not release every hostage but broke it by launching tonnes of rockets & terrorist attacks?

[Harrier]

44 minutes ago, welham said:

If you don't see the difference, then you're just hopeless

The difference being that you decided it's different 

Civillians having bad opinions at a particular time does not justify downplaying their civllian status and/or then doing displacement or murder, we have international law for a reason 

[nooniebao]

 

[A.R.L]

On 12/5/2023 at 3:54 AM, ClashAndBurn said:

Gaza is literally described as an open air prison by Israeli Holocaust experts. Liberals ALWAYS have to deflect to whataboutism about China in order to justify what Israel gets away with in Gaza AND the West Bank. Actually obscene and abhorrent.  

 

Of course, I would bring whataboutism when I don't see a single Chinese product being boycotted and the fact that the media in the islamic world only report once every 100000 times about the horrible and inhuman situation that is happening against Muslims in China. Of course I would bring whataboutism because I see a lot of hypocrisy. 
 

You have to admit that the anger of Muslim communities over this conflict is mainly based on religious views against Judaism rather than on humanitarian issues that’s happening to poor Palestinians.

 

Putin has killed thousands of Syrian children and is now seen a good leader in the Islamic community.

 

China has killed thousands of Muslims and is still seen a beloved country.

 

Saudi Arabia has killed thousands of Yemeni children and no one has moved.

 

There have been many civil wars in Sudan, Libya, where thousands of children died. Nobody cared.

 

On the other hand, I agree that Gaza is an open-air prison, but still the situation was still better than it is at the moment, I would blame Israel for the war crimes committed against poor civilians when the target is only hamas. I don't care where they hide, it's still a war crime when you punish an entire nation for some people. Whoever has made that decision must be punished by international law.

 

But on the one hand, the policy of hamas against the existence of a state like Israel was never to help the Palestinians. Not to mention the tensions between Hamas, which rules Gaza, and the Palestinian National Authority/Fatah movement, which rules the West Bank, over customs tax revenues, Gaza financing, and political power that causes daily struggles for the Palestinians, meanwhile, the billionaire leaders of Hamas who live a luxury life in Qatar flying on private jets, and use Qatar's money to destabilize the state of Israel, which will not help the Palestinians resolve the situation.

 

Therefore, that’s why the Israeli government is also putting many restrictions on the inhabitants of Gaza and other Palestinians in the West Bank, but it was never as serious as the war we are seeing at the moment.

 

Another thing is that the Islamic mentality among Muslims about this conflict is not helping either. A lot of anti-Semitism and the idea of not recognizing the state of Israel, the claims that the Israelis don’t have their rights over those lands and that they are European colonizers, etc... are not helping the situation at all.

 

Israelis, like Palestinians, have strong ties to those lands. The only exception is that Israelis have established their sacred places before even Islam existed. Jerusalem is the most sacred place for Israel. It's like Mecca for Muslims. Therefore, for Muslims, Jerusalem is not the most sacred place, it only occupies the third place after Mecca and the medina, I mean. For f’s sake, let the Jews have at least one sacred place.

 

 

Israelis aren’t only white Europeans, they are also Arab Jews from countries such as Morocco, Yemen and Iraq, where they were forced to accept Islamic rules or fight to leave their own country in a Muslim-majority country.
 

Israelis don’t want to live their lives as second class citizens or as  dhimmis like Christians in Muslim-majority countries, they want their own state and have all the rights to do so.

 

So, as long as I condemn Israel for their war crimes. I also condemn other nations for not recognizing Israel simply based on an Islamic point of view that is based on the control of that entire region.

 

Some of those nations tried to fight Israel twice for the same reason (religious perspective) and lost terribly, so it's time to make love and peace.

 

The only solutions for long term peace are:

1- recognize the state of Israel

2- give the Jews Jerusalem since they were there first, but with guaranteed rights for the freedoms of religion for Christians and Muslims.

3- Get rid of the right-wing party in Israel

4- Get rid of corruption among Palestinian leaders, that would be quite difficult, since it’s s common in that entire region, not only in Palestine. Before some of you jump to tell me about the corruption of Israeli leaders, yes, that's true and they must be accountable for it, but let's be honest, Israel is more developed and people have access to better rights, including Muslim migrants.

Without these things, unfortunately this terrible situation would remain the same for both sides.

Edited December 6, 2023 by A.R.L

[FOCK]

6 hours ago, ClashAndBurn said:

every single one of these chucklefucks should be primaried
 

Here are the 95 Democrats who voted for the “Anti-Zionism is antisemitism” resolution:

• Alma Adams
• Colin Allred
• Gabe Amo
• Jake Auchincloss
• Ami Bera 
• Sanford D. Bishop Jr.
• Lisa Blunt Rochester
• Julia Brownley
• Nikki Budzinski
• Yadira Caraveo
• Salud Carbajal 
• Matt Cartwright
• Kathy Castor
• Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick
• Steve Cohen
• Jim Costa
• Joe Courtney
• Angie Craig
• Jason Crow
• Henry Cuellar
• Don Davis
• Rosa DeLauro
• Chris Deluzio
• Anna Eshoo
• Lizzie Fletcher
• Lois Frankel
• Maxwell Frost
• Ruben Gallego
• Jared Golden
• Vicente Gonzalez
• Josh Gottheimer
• Josh Harder
• Jahana Hayes
• Brian Higgins
• Jim Himes
• Steven Horsford
• Steny Hoyer
• Jared Huffman 
• Jeff Jackson
• William Keating
• Derek Kilmer
• Ann Kuster
• Greg Landsman
• John Larson
• Susie Lee
• Mike Levin
• Stephen Lynch
• Kathy Manning
• Doris Matsui
• Kweisi Mfume
• Joe Morelle
• Jared Moskowitz
• Seth Moulton
• Frank J. Mrvan
• Richard Neal
• Joe Neguse
• Wiley Nickel
• Donald Norcross
• Frank Pallone Jr.
• Jimmy Panetta
• Chris Pappas
• Bill Pascrell Jr.
• Mary Peltola
• Marie Gluesenkamp Pérez
• Scott Peters
• Brittany Pettersen
• Mike Quigley
• C.A. Dutch Ruppersberger
• Adam Schiff
• Brad Schneider
• Hillary Scholten
• Kim Schrier
• David Scott
• Terri Sewell
• Brad Sherman
• Elissa Slotkin
• Adam Smith
• Eric Sorensen
• Darren Soto
• Abigail Spanberger
• Melanie Stansbury
• Greg Stanton
• Haley Stevens
• Eric Swalwell
• Emilia Sykes
• Shri Thanedar 
• Mike Thompson
• Dina Titus
• Norma Torres
• Ritchie Torres
• David Trone
• Juan Vargas
• Marc Veasey
• Debbie Wasserman Schultz
• Frederica Wilson

 

[Communion]

5 hours ago, Delirious said:

I'm sorry but didn't both literally try to do a ceasefire last week until the Hamas not only decided to not release every hostage but broke it by launching tonnes of rockets & terrorist attacks?

Literally no. Every post you attempt to make steps farther away from both logic and accuracy. 

 

There was never a ceasefire, there was a "humanitarian pause" of a set 4 days to oversee civilian women and children exchanged. (Source - CNBC)

 

During every day of this pause, the IDF attacked different parts of both Gaza and the West Bank. (Source - Reuters)

 

The pause came to its last day (11/27) and was literally extended *twice* for an additional 3 days for more exchanges. (Source - NBC)

 

Violence on neither side influenced the pause to end.  Hamas offered for it to be extended a third time to handle the remaining adult civilian male hostages. There was disagreement on 12/1 between Hamas and Israel over female soldiers. Israel says all women must be released first. Hamas says they'll release civilian men instead and that no soldiers will be released until a permanent ceasefire is brokered. (Source - Reuters)

Edited December 6, 2023 by Communion

[FOCK]

Massive implications.