news Israel-Palestine Conflict 2023/ 2024 Mega Thread

[ClashAndBurn]

2 minutes ago, Aristotle said:

Maybe but it has also a lot to do with the "holy land" religious madness which is what pushed Jews in this territory in the first place. Maybe Arabs would accept the offer if it this scenario happened elsewhere. Even Arabs consider the territory Israel holds as holy; 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Land#Islam

 

I doubt this would so far if it happened in another Arab region expect for Mecca.

Just moving this here since I don't really want the other thread to be taken too far off-topic

 

The "Holy Land" is significant to all three Abrahamic religions. The emotional attachment that Palestinians have to the land comes from generational trauma of being forcibly displaced from their homes that they were living in. There are grandmothers who lived through the Nakba who are currently being forced to undergo another one, and the West is showing nothing but callous indifference. The religious significance plays a role as well, but you would have a great deal of resentment had the Israelis decided to colonize Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria as well.

[Aethereal]

1 minute ago, ClashAndBurn said:

Just moving this here since I don't really want the other thread to be taken too far off-topic

 

The "Holy Land" is significant to all three Abrahamic religions. The emotional attachment that Palestinians have to the land comes from generational trauma of being forcibly displaced from their homes that they were living in. There are grandmothers who lived through the Nakba who are currently being forced to undergo another one, and the West is showing nothing but callous indifference. The religious significance plays a role as well, but you would have a great deal of resentment had the Israelis decided to colonize Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria as well.

Yes Israeli oppression radicalized a great proportion of Palestinians.

[Letemtalk]

11 hours ago, A.R.L said:

Do you guys really believe that? A simple Google search will tell they’re open and seem to be working for at least another decade.

 

I’m against the Israeli policy when it comes to Hamas and I also condemn Hamas for the crimes committed against civilians. I hope Israel will ceasefire and give poor Palestinians another chance of peace and hamas another lesson to learn.
 

The Moroccan people are free to boycott everything they don’t want but I find it hypocritical to boycott something against Israel where Muslims have better rights than China where mosques are being closed and Muslims are not even allowed to be themselves but China is their beloved country and buy their products on a daily basis.

I'm not even going to bother responding to this nonsense and just let other people point out to you how many Muslims in Gaza are not allowed to be themselves in the last two months.

[Communion]

10 hours ago, FOCK said:

To add to this: 

 

 

 

Thank you for this. Not to get off topic, but yes, the contradictions pointed out above and elsewhere by those actually familiar with Israel and China are what make such comparisons to defend Israel jarring and off-putting, because it’s clearly done with the intention of a pro-Western denial of war crimes by Israel.

 

As a Marxist interested in people’s material realities, I don’t think nation states are infallible. There’s nothing *inherently* moral to China as a state (or any state) that would forever make its policies, by virtue of being a policy, materially beneficial - and not harmful - without constant internal criticism.

 

And that integration policies without accountability, for example, can turn hostile - like seen in places like Poland; or how usage of the security state can turn repressive - like in France; or how trying to establish a lingua franca can lead to stigmatization of native languages and be examples of cultural erasure, like in Canada. My criticisms don't fall on those within China criticizing their government, but Westerners who wish to influence foreign policy for capital-driven reasons in hypocritical ways. 

 

The conversations already become muddied enough by hypocrisies between advocates for Five Eye nations and China (see: France's re-education policies often being harsher than that of China's), but someone jumping the shark and arguing the full-on genocidal, apartheid state of Israel where its leaders openly say the only good Palestinian is a dead Palestinian is somehow good because  "China bad"? This is not a serious conversation being held by anyone with serious concerns for Muslim minorities. 

 

Again, the material basis for everything is what makes such an argument so clearly absurd literally at face value.

 

Even if one believes it's credible, for instance, that Chinese government policy dictates that college-aged Uyghurs are not allowed to want to stay in Xinjiang and be farmers, but are told they have to pick a university in another province and learn Mandarin and have "modern skills" as part of an integration scheme... we do know how fundamentally different that is from what Israel does, right? Israel is not trying to fold Palestinians into some new national identity that Israelis and Palestinians can share that Israelis still control. Palestinians are not undergoing an Israelification and being integrated into Israeli society as a form of cultural erasure. Even Israeli Arabs live in what is essentially a caste system with 2nd-class citizen rights. Israelis don't want to make Palestinians more Israeli - the Israeli state apparatus literally doesn't want Palestinians to physically exist?? 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Communion

[karron0624]

7 hours ago, Nova_23 said:

Imagine still supporting Israel after everything that’s happened. Over 20,000 Palestinians murdered in less than 2 months at the hand of that murderous state. Close to 2 million people displaced from their homes. A literal genocide and ethnic cleansing. This is a modern day holocaust except this time the whole world is seeing it happening and is doing nothing. 

In reality, its the same because the whole world knew what Hitler was doing to the jew and ignored it too because of the harm we caused Germany. This is literally history just repeating itself in that the world is giving a pass to people it failed to protect in the past. 

[Jjang]

It's so interesting how Israelis absolve themselves of any guilt. 

 

1948? The Palestinians kicked themselves out and willingly never returned. We were just defending ourselves! 

1967? The Arab states are responsible for threatening our existence! We occupied and settled in those lands in self-defense! 

2023? Hamas is responsible for 10,000+ murdered Gazan children! We are telling them to evacuate and they're deliberately putting their children there! 

 

They genuinely with all their hearts believe these narratives. Even as they're being debunked in real-time. ISIS - Zionism is a mental illness. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Jjang

[Delirious]

Accounts of Sexual Violence by Hamas Are Aired Amid Criticism of U.N.

 

The body of one woman had “nails and different objects in her female organs.” In another house, a person’s genitals were so mutilated that “we couldn’t identify if it was a man or a woman.”

 

In before the Hamas supporters say it's fake. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/04/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-sexual-violence-un.html

Edited December 5, 2023 by Delirious

[Delirious]

There were literally 2 people last week who said that the sexual violence claims were propaganda. Quite disgusting but not surprising.

 

The evidence is out there if you spent a little effort searching for it which you clearly don't want to.

[GhostBox]

56 minutes ago, Delirious said:

Accounts of Sexual Violence by Hamas Are Aired Amid Criticism of U.N.

 

The body of one woman had “nails and different objects in her female organs.” In another house, a person’s genitals were so mutilated that “we couldn’t identify if it was a man or a woman.”

 

In before the Hamas supporters say it's fake. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/04/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-sexual-violence-un.html

This is horrible. On

both sides barbaric things are happening.  This will never end sadly 

[Aethereal]

Hamas knew exactly how would Israel react after October 7th but they did not care that many thousands of Palestinians would die, let's not forget that. 

[Jjang]

5 minutes ago, Aristotle said:

Hamas knew exactly how would Israel react after October 7th but they did not care that many thousands of Palestinians would die, let's not forget that. 

colonial mentality. 

[Aethereal]

5 hours ago, Jjang said:

colonial mentality. 

I am not dismissing Israel's crimes or that Israel started this madness in 1949 but you know if I were Palestinian I'd be mad at both of them for the past 2 months. Y'all keep posting those weird videos of Hamas hugging the hostages or treating them well as if they are not that bad without taking in factor what I said. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Aristotle

[Kassi]

This is awful. Can't believe it's still going on. Hamas should return all hostages and surrender.

[FOCK]

 

[nooniebao]

 

[nooniebao]

 

 

[Kassi]

 

 

[Communion]

7 minutes ago, Kassi said:

 

 

"Protest this completely made-up claim.

 

 

Not Zionists who fire young people for their social media posts supporting Palestine."

 

[BionicWooHoo]

8 hours ago, Delirious said:

Accounts of Sexual Violence by Hamas Are Aired Amid Criticism of U.N.

 

The body of one woman had “nails and different objects in her female organs.” In another house, a person’s genitals were so mutilated that “we couldn’t identify if it was a man or a woman.”

 

In before the Hamas supporters say it's fake. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/04/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-sexual-violence-un.html

It’s interesting how Israel cares so much about these women that they knew about the Oct 7 attacks a year in advance and yet didn’t do anything such as ramp up security. The Israel government failed those Israel women. If you also cared about those women, you’d also want Israel to stop doing things that will continue to radicalize Palestinians. You think carpet bombing entire families is going make Palestinians go “hmmm oh well guess I won’t want revenge or anything” 

Furthermore Israel has absolutely ZERO moral high ground here when they routinely imprison CHILDREN and then subject CHILDREN to rape 

 

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT85mLm45/

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-ngo-shut-down-reporting-sexual-assault-ex-us

 

 

[ClashAndBurn]

The Zionists are calling for her to get fired for saying Israel has a right to exist. She gave a morally defensible answer and they still want her head to roll. I can’t

[ClashAndBurn]

1 hour ago, Communion said:

"Protest this completely made-up claim.

 

 

Not Zionists who fire young people for their social media posts supporting Palestine."

 

The way Elon’s acolytes have hijacked fact checking features to spread blatant misinformation  

 

then again, liberals did this with their fact checks of Bernie Sanders. So it’s not unheard of <_>

[Delirious]

7 minutes ago, BionicWooHoo said:

It’s interesting how Israel cares so much about these women that they knew about the Oct 7 attacks a year in advance and yet didn’t do anything such as ramp up security. The Israel government failed those Israel women. If you also cared about those women, you’d also want Israel to stop doing things that will continue to radicalize Palestinians. You think carpet bombing entire families is going make Palestinians go “hmmm oh well guess I won’t want revenge or anything” 

Furthermore Israel has absolutely ZERO moral high ground here when they routinely imprison CHILDREN and then subject CHILDREN to rape 

 

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT85mLm45/

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-ngo-shut-down-reporting-sexual-assault-ex-us

 

 

"Reads story with some of the most most horrific, unimaginable witness accounts in modern history --> proceeds to whatabout the living hell out of said atrocities with unsubstantiated claims in order to divert the argument and justify the perpetrators

 

It happened. It's still happening to some of the hostages. NOTHING justifies it. Get your head out of your little bubble and step out of your echo chamber!!"

[Communion]

1 minute ago, Delirious said:

"Reads story with some of the most most horrific, unimaginable witness accounts in modern history --> proceeds to whatabout the living hell out of said atrocities with unsubstantiated claims in order to divert the argument and justify the perpetrators"

I'm so glad you've been able to accurately describe the way you've belittled and denied the genocide of Palestinians by making nonsense remarks about China.

[SmittenCake]

I don't know what's up with the influx of people with Ukrainian flags being pro-Israel and justifying this continuous war + invasion. Make it make sense. 

[Delirious]

1 minute ago, Communion said:

I'm so glad you've been able to accurately describe the way you've belittled and denied the genocide of Palestinians by making nonsense remarks about China.

No, I bring up China because it's just SO SO SO ironic that here you are supporting Palestine but still here in this very thread, you're denying & defending the well documented and accounted genociding of Ughur people.

 

I've already said many times that I condemn the actions of Israel AND the Hamas but none of you seem to get that. Cause of all the delusional echo chambering.