news Israel-Palestine Conflict 2023/ 2024 Mega Thread

[Kassi]

On 12/2/2023 at 10:16 PM, Noosa said:

A great depiction of the types of people on this thread:

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0IPCVKt_VC/?igshid=ZDE1MWVjZGVmZQ==

Very true. Every time I’ve had this “debate” in person, everyone folds on account of unsupported claims.
 

Wish people were more informed.

[ClashAndBurn]

This country is so ****** up; officially conflating Judaism with Israel explicitly makes Jews less safe.

 

Anyone who votes against this will also be smeared as an antisemite and get destroyed by attack ads, too. Very chilling.

[Communion]

Liberals openly mock the despair of Palestinians when they think they can get away with it. 

 

 

 

 

[FOCK]

 

[FOCK]

 

[A.R.L]

16 hours ago, Letemtalk said:

This is the only thing that will make a change. Companies that support ethnic cleansing and genocide should be put out of business, or at least find their businesses are unprofitable in some markets.

 

Politicians like Joe Biden and Keir Starmer should lose elections, preferably until they retire from politics. People should be reminded every day that they supported genocide. If a political party can't find someone better than those two, that party isn't worth your support.

Do you guys really believe that? A simple Google search will tell they’re open and seem to be working for at least another decade.

 

I’m against the Israeli policy when it comes to Hamas and I also condemn Hamas for the crimes committed against civilians. I hope Israel will ceasefire and give poor Palestinians another chance of peace and hamas another lesson to learn.
 

The Moroccan people are free to boycott everything they don’t want but I find it hypocritical to boycott something against Israel where Muslims have better rights than China where mosques are being closed and Muslims are not even allowed to be themselves but China is their beloved country and buy their products on a daily basis.

[RihRihGirrrl]

6 hours ago, ClashAndBurn said:

This country is so ****** up; officially conflating Judaism with Israel explicitly makes Jews less safe.

 

Anyone who votes against this will also be smeared as an antisemite and get destroyed by attack ads, too. Very chilling.

This is just freakin insane!! I hope people wake the F up and realize how much the US Government is completely controlled by Zionist

[GhostBox]

 

anyone know if this is true or not? I can’t find anyone confirming it. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by GhostBox

[Communion]

1 hour ago, A.R.L said:

Do you guys really believe that? A simple Google search will tell they’re open and seem to be working for at least another decade.

 

I’m against the Israeli policy when it comes to Hamas and I also condemn Hamas for the crimes committed against civilians. I hope Israel will ceasefire and give poor Palestinians another chance of peace and hamas another lesson to learn.
 

The Moroccan people are free to boycott everything they don’t want but I find it hypocritical to boycott something against Israel where Muslims have better rights than China where mosques are being closed and Muslims are not even allowed to be themselves but China is their beloved country and buy their products on a daily basis.

I'm sorry, but what??? This is why people say that those who preach blind anti-Islam views only end up carrying water for supremacist Western forces.

 

*ISRAEL IS COMMITTING A LITERAL GENOCIDE*. Not a metaphorical genocide. Not an erasure of culture (which is a valid concern!). It is *literally* physically killing tens of thousands of people with its politicians openly speaking of the intent to make them all stateless or kill anyone who refuses to leave. It is not remodeling mosques to "replace Arab designs with [Jewish] designs", for example. It is bombing mosques, and schools, and hospitals, and court houses, and apartment buildings. What do you think the global reaction would be if Xi Jinping bombed a hospital in Xinjiang?

 

It's a literal mass delusion event that the Western world and its sycophants can believe every claim the state department reports about China with no more than blurry satellite images or literal *drawings*, yet themselves then not believe the human rights violations done by Israel against Palestines being captured in LITERAL HIGH DEFINITION. 

 

Just by virtue of trying to stay informed about what's happening, I've seen tweets of 4K videos of Palestinian children shot through the middle of their skulled by IDF snipers. Children running for their life and just collapsing head first onto the dirt road, bleeding out. I've dropped my phone and felt on the brink of vomiting after accidentally viewing a video of a Palestinian child's body be crushed and tangled into an unrecognizable shaped as it was flattened into the treads of an IDF tank. These just so readily available for viewing yet some pretend there's still an ambiguity of what's happening??

 

Even if you earnestly believe *every single claim* reported about China and the disparity in how specific ethnic minorities are treated, even the worst claims *literally* do not measure up to what has become documented historical fact of what the Israeli regime is doing to Palestinians. The Western world does not feel like a worthwhile project to maintain anymore if it's going to produce this kind of mass insanity where people keep denying the atrocities in front of them in favor of focusing on theoretical ones because of 'vibes' and narratives to protect allies.

 

If the forced assimilation and de-Arabization policies of China infuriate and anger you (a feeling I'd agree with!), then the comparative reality of what Israel has done to the Palestinian people and what it has gotten away with in comparison should make you want to see the country of Israel burnt to the ground.  To sit here and take US accusations of what happens in China to go "hmmm guess all that killing Israel is doing isn't so bad, HUH???" is *insane*. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Communion

[ClashAndBurn]

1 hour ago, A.R.L said:

I find it hypocritical to boycott something against Israel where Muslims have better rights than China

Gaza is literally described as an open air prison by Israeli Holocaust experts. Liberals ALWAYS have to deflect to whataboutism about China in order to justify what Israel gets away with in Gaza AND the West Bank. Actually obscene and abhorrent.  

 

The reason you don't see as many complaints about the treatment of Uyghur Muslims as much is because China is NOT A US ALLY FULLY FUNDED AND ARMED TO THE TEETH AT TAXPAYERS' EXPENSE. The US has no leverage over China that wouldn't result in a global economic collapse that would be harmful to its own citizens and interests. Besides which, the US government clearly doesn't care about Muslims anyway, and only seeks to use them as a wedge issue.

[FOCK]

1 hour ago, Communion said:

I'm sorry, but what??? This is why people say that those who preach blind anti-Islam views only end up carrying water for supremacist Western forces.

 

*ISRAEL IS COMMITTING A LITERAL GENOCIDE*. Not a metaphorical genocide. Not an erasure of culture (which is a valid concern!). It is *literally* physically killing tens of thousands of people with its politicians openly speaking of the intent to make them all stateless or kill anyone who refuses to leave. It is not remodeling mosques to "replace Arab designs with [Jewish] designs", for example. It is bombing mosques, and schools, and hospitals, and court houses, and apartment buildings. What do you think the global reaction would be if Xi Jinping bombed a hospital in Xinjiang?

 

It's a literal mass delusion event that the Western world and its sycophants can believe every claim the state department reports about China with no more than blurry satellite images or literal *drawings*, yet themselves then not believe the human rights violations done by Israel against Palestines being captured in LITERAL HIGH DEFINITION. 

 

Just by virtue of trying to stay informed about what's happening, I've seen tweets of 4K videos of Palestinian children shot through the middle of their skulled by IDF snipers. Children running for their life and just collapsing head first onto the dirt road, bleeding out. I've dropped my phone and felt on the brink of vomiting after accidentally viewing a video of a Palestinian child's body be crushed and tangled into an unrecognizable shaped as it was flattened into the treads of an IDF tank. These just so readily available for viewing yet some pretend there's still an ambiguity of what's happening??

 

Even if you earnestly believe *every single claim* reported about China and the disparity in how specific ethnic minorities are treated, even the worst claims *literally* do not measure up to what has become documented historical fact of what the Israeli regime is doing to Palestinians. The Western world does not feel like a worthwhile project to maintain anymore if it's going to produce this kind of mass insanity where people keep denying the atrocities in front of them in favor of focusing on theoretical ones because of 'vibes' and narratives to protect allies.

 

If the forced assimilation and de-Arabization policies of China infuriate and anger you (a feeling I'd agree with!), then the comparative reality of what Israel has done to the Palestinian people and what it has gotten away with in comparison should make you want to see the country of Israel burnt to the ground.  To sit here and take US accusations of what happens in China to go "hmmm guess all that killing Israel is doing isn't so bad, HUH???" is *insane*. 

To add to this: 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by FOCK

[Nova_23]

Imagine still supporting Israel after everything that’s happened. Over 20,000 Palestinians murdered in less than 2 months at the hand of that murderous state. Close to 2 million people displaced from their homes. A literal genocide and ethnic cleansing. This is a modern day holocaust except this time the whole world is seeing it happening and is doing nothing. 

[ClashAndBurn]

2 minutes ago, Aristotle said:

Maybe but it has also a lot to do with the "holy land" religious madness which is what pushed Jews in this territory in the first place. Maybe Arabs would accept the offer if it this scenario happened elsewhere. Even Arabs consider the territory Israel holds as holy; 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Land#Islam

 

I doubt this would so far if it happened in another Arab region expect for Mecca.

Just moving this here since I don't really want the other thread to be taken too far off-topic

 

The "Holy Land" is significant to all three Abrahamic religions. The emotional attachment that Palestinians have to the land comes from generational trauma of being forcibly displaced from their homes that they were living in. There are grandmothers who lived through the Nakba who are currently being forced to undergo another one, and the West is showing nothing but callous indifference. The religious significance plays a role as well, but you would have a great deal of resentment had the Israelis decided to colonize Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria as well.

[Aethereal]

1 minute ago, ClashAndBurn said:

Just moving this here since I don't really want the other thread to be taken too far off-topic

 

The "Holy Land" is significant to all three Abrahamic religions. The emotional attachment that Palestinians have to the land comes from generational trauma of being forcibly displaced from their homes that they were living in. There are grandmothers who lived through the Nakba who are currently being forced to undergo another one, and the West is showing nothing but callous indifference. The religious significance plays a role as well, but you would have a great deal of resentment had the Israelis decided to colonize Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria as well.

Yes Israeli oppression radicalized a great proportion of Palestinians.

[Letemtalk]

11 hours ago, A.R.L said:

Do you guys really believe that? A simple Google search will tell they’re open and seem to be working for at least another decade.

 

I’m against the Israeli policy when it comes to Hamas and I also condemn Hamas for the crimes committed against civilians. I hope Israel will ceasefire and give poor Palestinians another chance of peace and hamas another lesson to learn.
 

The Moroccan people are free to boycott everything they don’t want but I find it hypocritical to boycott something against Israel where Muslims have better rights than China where mosques are being closed and Muslims are not even allowed to be themselves but China is their beloved country and buy their products on a daily basis.

I'm not even going to bother responding to this nonsense and just let other people point out to you how many Muslims in Gaza are not allowed to be themselves in the last two months.

[Communion]

10 hours ago, FOCK said:

To add to this: 

 

 

 

Thank you for this. Not to get off topic, but yes, the contradictions pointed out above and elsewhere by those actually familiar with Israel and China are what make such comparisons to defend Israel jarring and off-putting, because it’s clearly done with the intention of a pro-Western denial of war crimes by Israel.

 

As a Marxist interested in people’s material realities, I don’t think nation states are infallible. There’s nothing *inherently* moral to China as a state (or any state) that would forever make its policies, by virtue of being a policy, materially beneficial - and not harmful - without constant internal criticism.

 

And that integration policies without accountability, for example, can turn hostile - like seen in places like Poland; or how usage of the security state can turn repressive - like in France; or how trying to establish a lingua franca can lead to stigmatization of native languages and be examples of cultural erasure, like in Canada. My criticisms don't fall on those within China criticizing their government, but Westerners who wish to influence foreign policy for capital-driven reasons in hypocritical ways. 

 

The conversations already become muddied enough by hypocrisies between advocates for Five Eye nations and China (see: France's re-education policies often being harsher than that of China's), but someone jumping the shark and arguing the full-on genocidal, apartheid state of Israel where its leaders openly say the only good Palestinian is a dead Palestinian is somehow good because  "China bad"? This is not a serious conversation being held by anyone with serious concerns for Muslim minorities. 

 

Again, the material basis for everything is what makes such an argument so clearly absurd literally at face value.

 

Even if one believes it's credible, for instance, that Chinese government policy dictates that college-aged Uyghurs are not allowed to want to stay in Xinjiang and be farmers, but are told they have to pick a university in another province and learn Mandarin and have "modern skills" as part of an integration scheme... we do know how fundamentally different that is from what Israel does, right? Israel is not trying to fold Palestinians into some new national identity that Israelis and Palestinians can share that Israelis still control. Palestinians are not undergoing an Israelification and being integrated into Israeli society as a form of cultural erasure. Even Israeli Arabs live in what is essentially a caste system with 2nd-class citizen rights. Israelis don't want to make Palestinians more Israeli - the Israeli state apparatus literally doesn't want Palestinians to physically exist?? 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Communion

[karron0624]

7 hours ago, Nova_23 said:

Imagine still supporting Israel after everything that’s happened. Over 20,000 Palestinians murdered in less than 2 months at the hand of that murderous state. Close to 2 million people displaced from their homes. A literal genocide and ethnic cleansing. This is a modern day holocaust except this time the whole world is seeing it happening and is doing nothing. 

In reality, its the same because the whole world knew what Hitler was doing to the jew and ignored it too because of the harm we caused Germany. This is literally history just repeating itself in that the world is giving a pass to people it failed to protect in the past. 

[Jjang]

It's so interesting how Israelis absolve themselves of any guilt. 

 

1948? The Palestinians kicked themselves out and willingly never returned. We were just defending ourselves! 

1967? The Arab states are responsible for threatening our existence! We occupied and settled in those lands in self-defense! 

2023? Hamas is responsible for 10,000+ murdered Gazan children! We are telling them to evacuate and they're deliberately putting their children there! 

 

They genuinely with all their hearts believe these narratives. Even as they're being debunked in real-time. ISIS - Zionism is a mental illness. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Jjang

[Delirious]

Accounts of Sexual Violence by Hamas Are Aired Amid Criticism of U.N.

 

The body of one woman had “nails and different objects in her female organs.” In another house, a person’s genitals were so mutilated that “we couldn’t identify if it was a man or a woman.”

 

In before the Hamas supporters say it's fake. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/04/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-sexual-violence-un.html

Edited December 5, 2023 by Delirious

[Delirious]

There were literally 2 people last week who said that the sexual violence claims were propaganda. Quite disgusting but not surprising.

 

The evidence is out there if you spent a little effort searching for it which you clearly don't want to.

[GhostBox]

56 minutes ago, Delirious said:

Accounts of Sexual Violence by Hamas Are Aired Amid Criticism of U.N.

 

The body of one woman had “nails and different objects in her female organs.” In another house, a person’s genitals were so mutilated that “we couldn’t identify if it was a man or a woman.”

 

In before the Hamas supporters say it's fake. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/04/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-sexual-violence-un.html

This is horrible. On

both sides barbaric things are happening.  This will never end sadly 

[Aethereal]

Hamas knew exactly how would Israel react after October 7th but they did not care that many thousands of Palestinians would die, let's not forget that. 

[Jjang]

5 minutes ago, Aristotle said:

Hamas knew exactly how would Israel react after October 7th but they did not care that many thousands of Palestinians would die, let's not forget that. 

colonial mentality. 

[Aethereal]

5 hours ago, Jjang said:

colonial mentality. 

I am not dismissing Israel's crimes or that Israel started this madness in 1949 but you know if I were Palestinian I'd be mad at both of them for the past 2 months. Y'all keep posting those weird videos of Hamas hugging the hostages or treating them well as if they are not that bad without taking in factor what I said. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Aristotle

[Kassi]

This is awful. Can't believe it's still going on. Hamas should return all hostages and surrender.