news Israel-Palestine Conflict 2023/ 2024 Mega Thread

[More Than A Melody]

1 minute ago, CaptainMusic said:

Yes I said Muslims tend to be way more homophobic than Christians in 2023 and I stand by that. And no it’s not on the same basis as racism, which is why i said the most homophobic person I’ve encountered was a WHITE Muslim man. 
 

I’m allowed to have a negative view of a religion that encourages homophobia and I won’t apologise for that.

 

That doesn’t mean I’m prejudiced against all muslims and think they’re all homophobic.  

There's currently a huge wave of homophobia and transphobia in the South of the US because of Evangelicals, the current governor of Florida, where a good chunk of my family is, who literally has waged a cold war against queer people, is Christian. Your evidence is anecdotal.

 

It doesn't matter if the specific person you had a problem with was white. Most of Muslim people aren't white. And you aren't limiting your (justified) hatred to the specific white person who did that to you, but you're applying it to Muslims all over the world, majority of whom are NOT white and are systematically oppressed.

[RihRihGirrrl]

8 minutes ago, State of Grace. said:

Another young, unarmed man was just killed by the IOF terrorists in Hebron, West Bank. Once again "defending themselves from Hamas" I guess.

 

 

Sick murderers!!!!

[Harrier]

46 minutes ago, More Than A Melody said:

The most homophobic places on earth are usually also the ones who have faced the most destabilization, longest colonization, poorer conditions, etc. Societal advancement (equality for genders, sexualities, religions, etc) is hard to achieve when you're under duress. Name one country in the Middle East that's thriving to the same degree Europe is.

 

Using Saudi Arabia and Iran as your examples is also severely undermining your point about how stable and developed the Muslim homophobic countries are as both are dealing with freaking ISIS.

 

 No, you're right, you didn't imply it, you said it outright:

 

"The Islamic world is, broadly, homophobic of its own choice" 

"Muslims are inherently homophobic"

 

These statements are wildly different. One is talking about broad cultural realities, the other is talking about inherent qualities of a type of person. You conflate the two in an attempt to falsely frame me as racist. "America has a gun culture problem. Americans are innately violent and aggressive".

 

In any case, the thread is about the war, and we are off topic. I won't say any more about this.

[Shelter]

Do yous have to keep quoting that long post  

Edited October 22, 2023 by Shelter

[More Than A Melody]

2 minutes ago, Harrier said:

"The Islamic world is, broadly, homophobic of its own choice" 

"Muslims are inherently homophobic"

 

These statements are wildly different. One is talking about broad cultural realities, the other is talking about inherent qualities of a type of person. You conflate the two in an attempt to falsely frame me as racist. "America has a gun culture problem. Americans are innately violent and aggressive".

 

In any case, the thread is about the war, and we are off topic. I won't say any more about this.

America has a gun problem because of NRA lobbying. The vast majority of American people are pro gun reform.

 

It's understood that if you say "America has a gun problem" you're not talking about the people in America. When I posited that the Muslim world is more homophobic because of cultural and political context (such as the gun problem America has) you rejected that and said it was a conscious choice. I don't know who you're trying to fool with semantics but... yeah, you should try harder.

[Gaia]

Islam is a RELIGION not a RACE.

 

Islam being practiced by mostly non-whites does NOT mean Islamophobia = Racism.

 

Anyone is allowed to dislike a religion and disliking it has nothing to do with race. The way people just change the definition of words kills me  

 

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Gaia

[Cloröx]

Accidentally my a$$ 

 

 

[More Than A Melody]

4 minutes ago, Cloröx said:

Accidentally my a$$ 

 

 

For one of the most advanced militaries in the world they sure seem to have a f*ck ton of "accidents"

[State of Grace.]

Days ago someone here *cough* we all know who *cough* was denying the fact that supporting Palestine could easily get you fired/doxxed/discriminated against and that the "blacklisting" was not real. Interesting. And this is not even the only one I've seen.

 

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by State of Grace.

[FOCK]

…

Sick.

[ICLDXU4HS]

 

Screaming at the fact that it was 95% old white brainwashed Boomers in attendance of this **** show. 

[mystery]

1 hour ago, Shelter said:

Has it been answered yet why it took Israel up to 6 hours to get to the festival attack? 

I think the bigger question should be why didn't Israel do anything about an attack they most likely knew would happen. If Egypt was aware how is it possible that the IDF (who demonstrated that they can provide "recordings" that absolve them of any blame for the hospital) had no idea it would happen.

Edited October 22, 2023 by mystery

[More Than A Melody]

It's very curious that the same users who are "neutral" and continue to pedal "both sides" also call having an outward bias against a religion practiced mostly by brown people "disliking a religion" (which is no different than any other religion in and of itself).

 

Huh, very curious.

[Nova_23]

we’ve reached the point where since Israel is so open with their intent to slaughter Palestinians, people are trying to justify it by now claiming that Arabs are inherently homophobic so it’s okay if Palestinians are killed. 

 

Some of you are just as evil as the people who are carrying out the attacks. Y’all probably would be joining them if you could. Sick. 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Nova_23

[brazil]

It's heartbreaking to see the current devastation in Gaza. The international community not doing more to stop this in light of US position puts western hypocrisy at full display

[State of Grace.]

 

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by State of Grace.

[SignificantOther]

Even if all Palestinians were homophobic, which they aren't, it still wouldn't justify genociding them. Even homophobes deserve human rights. 

[Communion]

4 hours ago, Harrier said:

Stop blaming current homophobia on century old laws.

The logic doesn't even make any sense, if Europe is in fact the true origin of all worldwide homophobia then how were they (somewhat) able to let it go while others were not? 

 

"We can't blame people in Germany for being homophobic bc like a previous administration 100 years ago really hated gay people so its not fair to expect them to have changed". It doesn't make sense - people have agency including people outside of the West.

 

In any case, the current wave of highly conservative Islam, including many of the most extreme anti-LGBT laws such as death penalties, are largely a product of the last 50 years. The conservativism of Palestinians is simply part of this global shift, in addition to being repressed by Israel for so long.

 

It's better to just accept that the Islamic world is, broadly, homophobic of its own choice, without equivocating it away. It should'nt affect your view of this conflict as a gay person regardless: human rights are human rights and Palestine deserves to be free.

You're missing the larger point by focusing on that the person you're referencing had mentioned laws.

 

Of course culture is different from legal constructs - laws in some countries can be rooted in colonial rule while the culture of homophobia is perpetuated by modern day views.

 

However, both of these arguments miss out on the reality that the West (largely the US) has been more than happy to platform, fund and support forces that were homophobic and social conservative within the Middle East for their own strategic benefit. Islamism has always been favored by the US over secular socialism.

 

To where your argument veers more into pedantry than something substantial. Look at the the way Iran's history is discussed with the US-backed coup against Mosaddegh. When people discuss how the US is to blame for how conservative and religious Iran is, of course they don't mean the US invented conservative Islamic thought. Of course the US didn't invent the concept of the hijab and modest dress. People say that the US holds blame for how conservative and religious Iran is because they literally did everything in their power to snuff out progressive and secular leaders who wanted more for their country than being subservient to the West.

 

So hearing about how Hamas' ranks are built on extremist Islamic thought is meaningless to me. It's meaningless to me to hear Zionists scream that Hamas would kill gay people when the very same Zionst's government have help to fund and support these Islamists for decades. "HAMAS IS ISSI!!!" is braindead as a persuasive argument when Israel literally was giving medical aid to ISIS fighters and sending them back into Syria when the US saw ISIS fighters as allies against the Syrian Armed Forces.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Communion

[Cloröx]

It's pretty sure that Israel kills more Palestinians queer than Hamas itself (honestly I never heard that Hamas killed LGBTQ community, discrimination is there but to the point of killing them I've yet found any report)

[Shelter]

49 minutes ago, mystery said:

I think the bigger question should be why didn't Israel do anything about an attack they most likely knew would happen. If Egypt was aware how is it possible that the IDF (who demonstrated that they can provide "recordings" that absolve them of any blame for the hospital) had no idea it would happen.

We know they let it happen. 

[Chemist]

On 10/21/2023 at 7:16 PM, More Than A Melody said:

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Unemployed people in the United Nations

 

The projecting is very funny. You're commenting here too, aren't you?

Eye watering support for Palestine around the world . Thank you for this post!

[Gaia]

I’m sorry, is the assumption that only white people dislike Islam as a religion?
 

That seems to be the implication with “so strange you’d dislike a religion practiced by majority non-whites” as if there’s not many people who ALSO dislike Christianity/Catholicism. Many people don’t like religions (especially ones known to preach a strong hatred toward certain groups). 
 

 

 

[Communion]

3 hours ago, Harrier said:

No, it is a statement of fact backed up by every poll & by the reality of laws on the ground. Many of the most homophobic Islamic countries have not been bombed or fought any defensive wars in the last 50 years, and some are well developed. Most have been indepedent for equally as long. It simply makes y'all emotionally uncomfortable to face this reality head on without shifting blame or equivocating - easier to simply blame the West and move on. Ask any homophobe from Iran or Saudi Arabia whether their views have anything to do with the West, or some old British penal code; in fact, often their views are defined in opposition to the West.

 

I never implied that Muslims are inherently homophobic - you are inserting that implication yourself. Homophobia is cultural, and right now it is strongest in the Middle East and in Sub-Saharan Africa. At other times, it's been stronger elsewhere. I also never said that Islam is beyond reform: you inserted that yourself also.

 

Again, this is an essentialist argument because you have no issue grouping together nations based on being Muslim even when the nations you're hoping to group together aren't similar besides "being Muslim". You view religiosity as a destiny - that Muslims will inevitably be homophobic. That a Muslim nation can never itself open up to reform, yet there is no consistency within the "Muslim world".  That is the premise for your argument.

 

Even when ignoring the different sects of Islam, are all Muslims the same? Are Lebanese Muslims the same as Saudi Muslims? Are Syrian Muslims the same as Kazakh Muslims? Are Turkish Muslims the same as Chadian Muslims? Are Palestinian Muslims the same as Egyptian Muslims? The idea these groups can be simply folded into one another is why the West is demanding Egypt participate in the ethnic cleansing of Gaza. If you agree culture is mendable, why group nations with little shared culture or history?

 

"Well the rich Islamic oil nations have always been powerful and conservative so I reject the notion that other countries' conservatism is fueled in part by historical events" is like... braindead of a claim and a blatant logical fallacy that ignores these basic facts:

• Israel has a very large religious, conservative population, with some polls showing a majority of Israelis holding views that would get others deemed homophobic
• By knowing this, we can know that LGBTQ rights have nothing to do with this issue, the issue being the occupation of Palestine
• Israel itself has funded and supported Islamist leaders who they thought were more favorable to them than secular leaders
• Israel has partnered with the US to offer military and medical aid at different points to Islamist groups like ISIS in other conflicts
• There are multiple secular military groups within Palestine, with the fastest growing ones being Marxist-Leninist ones in belief
• Every secular group within Palestine sees cooperation with Israel as a dead-end and are working with Hamas in their recent operations of resistance, with many of these secular groups focusing their own operations in dismantling and taking out military outposts and bases around the borders of Gaza and the West Bank. So no, you cannot condemn them for attacking civilians like Hamas did.

Those who claim to fear extremist religious thought in the Middle East should support these secular groups within Palestine instead of cheerleading for what amounts to a theocratic Jewish ethno-state just because it serves as a military outpost for the goals of Western military regimes. 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Communion

[VilsonMuqa]

Why did it take the israelis 7hours to get to the attackers? 
it seems really fishy…

 

inside job? 

[Nova_23]

20 minutes ago, VilsonMuqa said:

Why did it take the israelis 7hours to get to the attackers? 
it seems really fishy…

 

inside job? 

 

Add to the fact that they’re indiscriminately bombing the area where the hostages were taken. It’s very clear Israel does not care about any civilians, including their own, with how they’ve handled this situation.