news Israel-Palestine Conflict 2023/ 2024 Mega Thread

[FOCK]

No one is buying it. 
 

Not even Israel.

 

 

[welham]

 

[Cloröx]

4 minutes ago, FOCK said:

No one is buying it. 
 

Not even Israel.

 

 

I knew some who believe this

 

[Cloröx]

2 minutes ago, welham said:

 

They really thought they did something, if anything there will be more reasons to support Palestine since some Zionists just sick in the head like those girl 

[FOCK]

 

[réveuse]

15 minutes ago, welham said:

 

I actually want to ***** cry because wtf is this? The trend of Israeli women mocking Palestinian women is sad. Imagine if this were the other way around. Zionists would be raging.

[State of Grace.]

"Why was Europe able to progress and let go of homophobia while the countries they invaded, colonized, destroyed, and stole from for decades did not?"

 

 

Absolutely nobody has said that homophobia was non-existent before, but colonialism exacerbated it and now you're all holding these countries up as progressive heroes. I am begging some of you to look up the long-lasting effects of colonial interference (lets not even get into how they've been trying to stick their nose back where it is not wanted with their white savior bs for years now).

 

Anyways, this is off-topic and I am absolutely tired of discussing it. Palestinians deserve their freedom and basic human rights, homophobic or not.

Edited October 22, 2023 by State of Grace.

[Letemtalk]

Meanwhile in Europe, these are what the supporters of Israel look like.

The fascists are happy when bombs are falling on Palestinians, but they don't want any Palestinian refugees.

 

Quote

Italy Exports of arms and ammunition, parts and accessories to Israel was US$19.56 Million during 2022, according to the United Nations COMTRADE database on international trade.

https://tradingeconomics.com/italy/exports/israel/arms-ammunition-parts-accessories

 

Quote

Euronews: Under Giorgia Meloni's government's new proposal, Italy would be able to export arms to countries at war as well as to those with a poor track record of human rights violations, evading bans that currently stop it from doing so.

https://www.euronews.com/2023/10/11/italys-government-is-trying-to-make-exporting-arms-easier-but-activists-say-itd-be-a-disas

[FOCK]

7 minutes ago, State of Grace. said:

"Why was Europe able to progress and let go of homophobia while the countries they invaded, colonized, destroyed, and stole from for decades did not?"

 

 

Absolutely nobody has said that homophobia was non-existent before, but colonialism exacerbated it and now you're all holding these countries up as progressive heroes. I am begging some of you to look up the long-lasting effects of colonial interference (lets not even get into how they've been trying to stick their nose back where it is not wanted with their white savior bs for years now).

 

Anyways, this is off-topic and I am absolutely tired of discussing it. Palestinians deserve their freedom and basic human rights, homophobic or not.

Seriously. 
 

Attempts to derail this into an LGBTQ issue are so tone deaf. 

 

Aside from the fact that gay & queer Palestinians exist & they do not wish for their expulsion, imprisonment & murder of their people, aside from the fact that several of the most prevalent online Palestinian spokespeople are gay individuals who live in Palestine themselves (Mohammed El Kurd) … aside from it being a completely psychopathic take &/or a clear attempt at obfuscating the humanitarian matters at hand - the education system clearly failed you, if you aren’t even able to grasp Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, which is taught at a fifth grade curriculum. 
 

In case it still isn’t clear, Palestinians have been at the bottom of it, for 75 years. 

[State of Grace.]

It is really appalling to me how they spread lies & misinformation then 'apologize' like nothing happened.

 

 

And before this:

 

Spread blatant lies & incitement -> get called out -> apologize after the damage is done and obviously not everyone sees the retraction. It has been constant for years now and I'm supposed to respect and trust these so-called 'professional' journalists and outlets? 

[bijonse]

1 hour ago, Harrier said:

Stop blaming current homophobia on century old laws.

The logic doesn't even make any sense, if Europe is in fact the true origin of all worldwide homophobia then how were they (somewhat) able to let it go while others were not? 

 

"We can't blame people in Germany for being homophobic bc like a previous administration 100 years ago really hated gay people so its not fair to expect them to have changed". It doesn't make sense - people have agency including people outside of the West.

 

In any case, the current wave of highly conservative Islam, including many of the most extreme anti-LGBT laws such as death penalties, are largely a product of the last 50 years. The conservativism of Palestinians is simply part of this global shift, in addition to being repressed by Israel for so long.

 

It's better to just accept that the Islamic world is, broadly, homophobic of its own choice, without equivocating it away. It should'nt affect your view of this conflict as a gay person regardless: human rights are human rights and Palestine deserves to be free.

The current homophobia is largely because of the century old laws though. You’re right that it doesn’t matter if they’re homophobic but it needs to be said that the very Europeans on this forum’s governments regimes are the main reason why that region is so violently homophobic so it’s even more ridiculous to try and use homophobia to dehumanize Palestinians 

[RihRihGirrrl]

39 minutes ago, FOCK said:

 

His take on Sinai is scary but the likely outcome if Isreal takes full control of Gaza.

[Harrier]

1 hour ago, More Than A Melody said:

Because Europe was allowed to prosper and evolve while the Middle East was colonized, occupied, bombed, and the victim of countless wars over the last century. You can't have social evolution and advancement at the same time as most people are constantly destabilized.

 

You're implying that Muslims are inherently homophobic and misogynistic, that it's embedded in their beings. That is the definition of racism. ALL religions have misogynistic and homophobic views, so that's not the culprit. There are countless progressive Muslims in the world, so the religion in and of itself isn't a problem. Saying that "the Islamic world is broadly homophobic of its own choice" is deeply prejudiced and lacks contextualizing.

No, it is a statement of fact backed up by every poll & by the reality of laws on the ground. Many of the most homophobic Islamic countries have not been bombed or fought any defensive wars in the last 50 years, and some are well developed. Most have been indepedent for equally as long. It simply makes y'all emotionally uncomfortable to face this reality head on without shifting blame or equivocating - easier to simply blame the West and move on. Ask any homophobe from Iran or Saudi Arabia whether their views have anything to do with the West, or some old British penal code; in fact, often their views are defined in opposition to the West.

 

I never implied that Muslims are inherently homophobic - you are inserting that implication yourself. Homophobia is cultural, and right now it is strongest in the Middle East and in Sub-Saharan Africa. At other times, it's been stronger elsewhere. I also never said that Islam is beyond reform: you inserted that yourself also.

 

[CaptainMusic]

58 minutes ago, More Than A Melody said:

so the religion in and of itself isn't a problem. 

I disagree, the average Muslim in the west tends to be way more homophobic than the average Christian nowadays.

 

Obviously there are still tons of homophobic Christians but in my experience they just don’t compare in 2023 to the violence and hate that Islam creates against the LGBT community. 

 

That said, this shouldn’t have a bearing on your views. Even if many of them are homophobic due to their religion that doesn’t mean you should blindly support a genocide, especially when there are obviously gay and non-homophobic Palestinians.

 

We can acknowledge their problematic religion and still support Palestine. The main concern right now should be the innocent civilians being slaughtered right now.

[FOCK]

1 minute ago, RihRihGirrrl said:

His take on Sinai is scary but the likely outcome if Isreal takes full control of Gaza.

Yep. It’s highly unlikely that Israel is going to stop now, unless they’re actually humiliated again in an on the ground conflict (which they’re trying to avoid) or further escalation with neighbouring countries. 
 

They didn’t call up 360,000 reservists, have the US send 2 aircraft carriers to the Middle East, or host Blinken and Biden for no reason.
 

I’m braced for even more misery, suffering & international uprising & revolt.

[More Than A Melody]

3 minutes ago, Harrier said:

No, it is a statement of fact backed up by every poll & by the reality of laws on the ground. Many of the most homophobic Islamic countries have not been bombed or fought any defensive wars in the last 50 years, and some are well developed. Most have been indepedent for equally as long. It simply makes y'all emotionally uncomfortable to face this reality head on without shifting blame or equivocating - easier to simply blame the West and move on. Ask any homophobe from Iran or Saudi Arabia whether their views have anything to do with the West; in fact, often their views are defined in opposition to the West.

 

I never implied that Muslims are inherently homophobic - you are inserting that implication yourself. Homophobia is cultural, and right now it is strongest in the Middle East and in Sub-Saharan Africa. At other times, it's been stronger elsewhere. I also never said that Islam is beyond reform: you inserted that yourself also.

 

The most homophobic places on earth are usually also the ones who have faced the most destabilization, longest colonization, poorer conditions, etc. Societal advancement (equality for genders, sexualities, religions, etc) is hard to achieve when you're under duress. Name one country in the Middle East that's thriving to the same degree Europe is.

 

Using Saudi Arabia and Iran as your examples is also severely undermining your point about how stable and developed the Muslim homophobic countries are as both are dealing with freaking ISIS.

 

22 minutes ago, Harrier said:

I never implied that Muslims are inherently homophobic

 

 No, you're right, you didn't imply it, you said it outright:

1 hour ago, Harrier said:

It's better to just accept that the Islamic world is, broadly, homophobic of its own choice

 

[More Than A Melody]

19 minutes ago, CaptainMusic said:

I disagree, the average Muslim in the west tends to be way more homophobic than the average Christian nowadays.

 

Obviously there are still tons of homophobic Christians but in my experience they just don’t compare in 2023 to the violence and hate that Islam creates against the LGBT community. 

 

That said, this shouldn’t have a bearing on your views. Even if many of them are homophobic due to their religion that doesn’t mean you should blindly support a genocide, especially when there are obviously gay and non-homophobic Palestinians.

 

We can acknowledge their problematic religion and still support Palestine. The main concern right now should be the innocent civilians being slaughtered right now.

I have no words for how racist and judgmental this is. Seek help.

[CaptainMusic]

3 minutes ago, More Than A Melody said:

I have no words for how racist and judgmental this is. Seek help.

Literally nothing I said in my post was racist, and Muslims aren’t even a race.
 

The most homophobic person I’ve ever encountered was a white Albanian Muslim man.  Calling people racist for pointing out the violent homophobia among Muslims is pathetic, get a ******* grip. 
 

Moving on, as I said, free Palestine regardless of my personal views on Islam. 

 

[More Than A Melody]

2 minutes ago, CaptainMusic said:

Literally nothing I said in my post was racist, and Muslims aren’t even a race.
 

The most homophobic person I’ve ever encountered was a white Albanian Muslim man.  Calling people racist for pointing out the violent homophobia among Muslims is pathetic, get a ******* grip. 
 

Moving on, as I said, free Palestine regardless of my personal views on Islam. 

 

It's racist to imply that an entire subsection of people is inherently homophobic because of their religion. The most homophobic person I've encountered was a Christian man, who violently raped me when he found out I had a girlfriend. What do anecdotal personal experiences have to do with what I said?

[Dialamba]

We are talking about a genocide and some of y’all be like b-but the gays !!!  

[CaptainMusic]

1 minute ago, More Than A Melody said:

It's racist to imply that an entire subsection of people is inherently homophobic because of their religion. 

I never said that, in my post I literally said there are gay and non-homophobic Palestinians. 
 

There was no racism because once again Muslims aren’t a race. Stop quoting me if you’re not gonna read and don’t know what it means to actually be racist, thanks. 

[More Than A Melody]

4 minutes ago, CaptainMusic said:

I never said that, in my post I literally said there are gay and non-homophobic Palestinians. 
 

There was no racism because once again Muslims aren’t a race. Stop quoting me if you’re not gonna read and don’t know what it means to actually be racist, thanks. 

You literally said this:

Quote

I disagree, the average Muslim in the west tends to be way more homophobic than the average Christian nowadays.

 

Obviously there are still tons of homophobic Christians but in my experience they just don’t compare in 2023 to the violence and hate that Islam creates against the LGBT community. 

I know being Muslim isn't a race, but the prejudice against Muslims is rooted in the same basis as racism, hence, it's racism. And you have a prejudice against Muslim people.

[Shelter]

Has it been answered yet why it took Israel up to 6 hours to get to the festival attack? 

[CaptainMusic]

1 minute ago, More Than A Melody said:

You literally said this:

I know being Muslim isn't a race, but the prejudice against Muslims is rooted in the same basis as racism, hence, it's racism. And you have a prejudice against Muslim people.

Yes I said Muslims tend to be way more homophobic than Christians in 2023 and I stand by that. And no it’s not on the same basis as racism, which is why i said the most homophobic person I’ve encountered was a WHITE Muslim man. 
 

I’m allowed to have a negative view of a religion that encourages homophobia and I won’t apologise for that.

 

That doesn’t mean I’m prejudiced against all muslims and think they’re all homophobic.  

[State of Grace.]

Another young, unarmed man was just killed by the IOF terrorists in Hebron, West Bank. Once again "defending themselves from Hamas" I guess.