news Israel-Palestine Conflict 2023/ 2024 Mega Thread

[Gaia]

11 minutes ago, Scars said:

What? it's true. Signing a letter that condems the actions of Israel or openly criticize a zionist individual can get your full name, face picture and whereabouts here: https://canarymission.org/

 

I personally know people that have made into the student list simply for calling for the end of ethnic cleansing in Palestine, which the Canary Mission believes to be an "antisemitic trope to demonize Israel". There are some sort of anti-BDS law placed in most states in US and bills proposed in many other western countries, like the UK, that directly target companies, small bussiness and even public bodies to assosiciate themselves with the BDS movement, the concept of what it means to have an "BDS association" being very inconsistent to begin with. People will rightfully feel scared to express their views and face the risk of hurting their careers and safety.

 

I'm not trying to be rude or mean, but you should try to be more careful while discussing such a sensitive topic that directly impacts the lives of millions of people. You were the member that randomly said that "Middle Easteners didn't dissociate themselves enough from the actions of 9/11 and ISIS", despite the fact that the 9/11 attack was done by al-Qaeda, which didn't even operate in the Middle East.

 

Geopolitical topics are complex and no one knows everything, but fact-checking doesn't hurt, especially when you have openly admitted to hold a certain bias against pro-palestinian voices, even though you're not fully aware of the history of the Palestinian struggle.

I'll speak on what I want to and how I want to but you're free to correct me if I'm wrong about something. I don't care about being corrected if I misspeak. But Al-qa'ida and ISIS are both islamic groups so just get bunched together in my brain. My bad

 

But do you have any concrete evidence anyone has been discriminated against or just he said she said?

Edited October 15, 2023 by Gaia

[Chemist]

Iran does NOT need to get involved

 

 

[Cloröx]

6 minutes ago, Chemist said:

Iran does NOT need to get involved

 

 

Agreed just like the US

[Cloröx]

The fact that I need to cross and double triple check any source from Israel because they often to makin up story to push their propaganda 

 

 t

[Aethereal]

Can they give Palestinians more time to move out of Northern Gaza? 

Quote

Day seven of the Israel-Hamas war began with a grim warning from Israel for Palestinians in Gaza to flee the northern reaches of the enclave within 24 hours, a demand the UN secretary general dismissed as “impossible”.

Read about the fear and confusion caused by the demand here.

Observers also believe the order is laying the groundwork for an Israeli ground incursion into Gaza. Read about the strategic implications of such an operation here.

 

 

[Chemist]

 

[welham]

1 minute ago, Aristotle said:

Can they give Palestinians more time to move out of Northern Gaza? 

 

Some people will simply not move. They (rightfully) believe that once they leave, they will not be allowed to go back. A minister in the new emergency government said the quiet part out loud and said the Gaza strip should "pay" with the shrinkage of it's territory. It is an ethnic cleansing operation and everyone in Gaza knows it. Some decide to leave for fear of their lives, some decide to stay, and some (according to questionable reports, but I have to mention it) are forced to stay by Hamas. 

[Scars]

1 hour ago, Gaia said:

I'll speak on what I want to and how I want to but you're free to correct me if I'm wrong about something. I don't care about being corrected if I misspeak.

 

But do you have any concrete evidence anyone has been discriminated against or just he said she said?

Yeah, I initially thought your not-very-bright takes were just the case of the average american that can't point to the Middle East in a globe map but still felt like they had to share their CNN'd view on topics that are clearly out of their depth, but considering your few last posts, it's not an innocent lack of knowledge on the matter, there's bad faith and intellectual dishonesty at play here.

 

People losing jobs left and right and being publicly targeted by an organization entirely dedicated to harass pro-palestinian voices, on top of the existence of anti-BDS laws in the first place, are more than concrete proves that being pro-Israel is a very much protected view in the Western world and openly oppose such view can threaten the safety of one, as @ClashAndBurn initially said. After you finally check on Google where is the location of Afghanistan after learning that Al-Qaeda didn't operate in the Middle East, maybe you can Google for more 'concrete evidence' as you wish.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Scars

[Khris]

Now the nearly the entire world has come to its senses and condoned this "response"... Could  we see a reality where BB is ousted?

[Aethereal]

Ron DeSantis says US should NOT accept refugees from Gaza because 'they are all anti-Semitic', after progressive Democrat said America should welcome some of the 1M forced to flee

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12631477/ron-desantis-gaza-refugees-not-welcome-united-states.html?ico=topics_pagination_desktop

[nooniebao]

 

[Communion]

Part of the harm of the "PALESTINIANS ARE ALL SAVAGE ISLAMISTS!!!" framework - and why it's important to recognize polling that the average Israeli is no-less and sometimes more extremist in their views than your average Palestinian - is because you can just as easily find contrasting realities like the below.

 

To where you have an American woman migrate to a country thousands of miles away because she believes it to be a sacred religious homeland and cheers on one of the world's most aggressive armies as "God's soldiers" dropping bombs that then land on the heads of entrapped and innocent Palestinians who have only known life inside that of an internment camp:

Bringing up ISIS, let alone al-Qaeda, when discussing Israel's occupation of Palestine is just... historical illiteracy. 

[FOCK]

Gazan’s have now had to resort to storing dead bodies in Ice Cream trucks due to the overwhelming amount of civilian murders.

 

 

 

[futurenostalgic]

tw:

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by futurenostalgic

[Genius1111]

Israelis Call for Netanyahu's Resignation Over Handling of Hamas Hostage Crisis (businessinsider.com)

 

 

 

Haaretz, Israel's left-leaning and longest-running newspaper, published an editorial on Sunday titled, "Netanyahu Bears Responsibility for This Israel-Gaza War."

"The prime minister, who has prided himself on his vast political experience and irreplaceable wisdom in security matters, completely failed to identify the dangers he was consciously leading Israel into when establishing a government of annexation and dispossession," the editorial reads.

[welham]

Most of you guys are really lucky you don't speak Hebrew. The way so many Israelis are calling and celebrating the idea of ethnic cleansing is bone-chilling (yes, they explicity say things like "this is what they get" and calls to "clear" the entire strip and build Jewish towns on top of the rubble). 

 

Worse yet, I finally made posts on Instagram calling for peace and for an end to the war, only to see that merely asking for calling for peace (even when explicitly condemning Hamas' targeting of civilians) can be painted as "spreading information that impacts public peace and/or the spirit of soldiers' during times of war" if a well-funded right-wing nuts try to push it that far. It can result up to five years in prison, and now I'm scared. I hid my story from every Jewish Israeli person I have on my Instagram. Even though in 99.9% of the time I only add people that I know and "vet," and I know them as fairly liberal and maybe just moderate within the context of Israeli politics, I just don't feel safe anymore. A witch hunt is happening all over the country, everyone who expressed opposition to the war are attacked, villified, and have their careers or educational opportunities threatened if not destroyed. 

 

I like to think that even if they (unfortunately) disagree with my humanitarian message, most of them would not in a million years do such a thing. But with the current atmosphere, I really don't know. I'm getting scared for my future for simply speaking up against the killing of civilians (on both-sides, mind you!!!). I just don't know anymore. 

[ClashAndBurn]

7 minutes ago, welham said:

Most of you guys are really lucky you don't speak Hebrew. The way so many Israelis are calling and celebrating the idea of ethnic cleansing is bone-chilling (yes, they explicity say things like "this is what they get" and calls to "clear" the entire strip and build Jewish towns on top of the rubble). 

 

Worse yet, I finally made posts on Instagram calling for peace and for an end to the war, only to see that merely asking for calling for peace (even when explicitly condemning Hamas' targeting of civilians) can be painted as "spreading information that impacts public peace and/or the spirit of soldiers' during times of war" if a well-funded right-wing nuts try to push it that far. It can result up to five years in prison, and now I'm scared. I hid my story from every Jewish Israeli person I have on my Instagram. Even though in 99.9% of the time I only add people that I know and "vet," and I know them as fairly liberal and maybe just moderate within the context of Israeli politics, I just don't feel safe anymore. A witch hunt is happening all over the country, everyone who expressed opposition to the war are attacked, villified, and have their careers or educational opportunities threatened if not destroyed. 

 

I like to think that even if they (unfortunately) disagree with my humanitarian message, most of them would not in a million years do such a thing. But with the current atmosphere, I really don't know. I'm getting scared for my future for simply speaking up against the killing of civilians (on both-sides, mind you!!!). I just don't know anymore. 

It genuinely brings to mind the atmosphere of what things were like in the aftermath of 9/11. It was... lonely being one of the only children in my elementary school who didn't regularly make jokes about nuking the Middle East and turning Iraq into glass. I imagine it's even worse now, watching people you grew up with act this way as adults. At least for me, you could assume that elementary school kids were being impressed upon by bigotry from their parents and could hope for them to grow up to be better people.

[ClashAndBurn]

 

[DAP]

 

…. whatever that means. 

 

[Harrier]

And this is among Gazan ADULTS. Nevermind the million or so under 18s.

Even putting aside the immorality of the "civillian culpability" argument Israel has been pushing, it's also literally untrue that most Gazans want this 

[Capris Groove]

"These guys make Al-Qaeda look pure." OH MY GOD.

[Robert]

4 hours ago, stevyy said:

The security and esxistence and continued secure existence of Israel is a fundamental politcial Principal as per the constitution of the Federal Republic of Germany. I stand with that.

Why does Germany have any jurisdiction over the Middle East? 

[fememeist]

This is such a tense situation I fear this cold war is turning even bigger.

[Archetype]

1 hour ago, Harrier said:

And this is among Gazan ADULTS. Nevermind the million or so under 18s.

Even putting aside the immorality of the "civillian culpability" argument Israel has been pushing, it's also literally untrue that most Gazans want this 

This survey doesn't really tell us anything about the two state solution either, considering it's ONLY based on the borders from the 60's.  If someone disagrees with those exact borders, they're going to vote "No", regardless of if they support a two state solution that would look different. 

 

The entire concept of the 1967 borders being the only way for a two state solution is idiotic when

1) it's clear no Palestinian or Gazan would find that to be fair, considering the borders were extremely biased towards Israel and Palestinians had little power in those discussions

and 2) the Israeli government severely and regularly violates this border agreement and cannot be trusted to uphold their legal commitments 

 

Regardless, peace is impossible in this region for as long as Hamas continues to exist and thrive.  The biggest issue is Iran at this point, because Hamas, as an organized group, is a mess, but they can continue operating for as long as they funded and given weapons.  I do think Netanyahu will be forced out of Government eventually due to how he and his govt chose to ignore warnings, and public favor from western propaganda will diminish as more and more atrocities by his military are carried out over the next few weeks.  We already see cable news in the US starting to crack.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Archetype

[Cloröx]

14 minutes ago, Archetype said:

This survey doesn't really tell us anything about the two state solution either, considering it's ONLY based on the borders from the 60's.  If someone disagrees with those exact borders, they're going to vote "No", regardless of if they support a two state solution that would look different. 

 

The entire concept of the 1967 borders being the only way for a two state solution is idiotic when

1) it's clear no Palestinian or Gazan would find that to be fair, considering the borders were extremely biased towards Israel and Palestinians had little power in those discussions

and 2) the Israeli government severely and regularly violates this border agreement and cannot be trusted to uphold their legal commitments 

 

Regardless, peace is impossible in this region for as long as Hamas continues to exist and thrive.  The biggest issue is Iran at this point, because Hamas, as an organized group, is a mess, but they can continue operating for as long as they funded and given weapons.  I do think Netanyahu will be forced out of Government eventually due to how he and his govt chose to ignore warnings, and public favor from western propaganda will diminish as more and more atrocities by his military are carried out over the next few weeks.  We already see cable news in the US starting to crack.

I don't think dethroning Hamas will solve the issue at all. I mean look at West Bank. The biggest issue is not Iran but Israel gov and their zionism/apartheid practice. Don't expect peace can be achieved in the region as long as Israel keeps discriminating non-Jews.