John Slayne Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 24 minutes ago, stevyy said: Wht prompted that response? How would you know she can't? 23 minutes ago, stevyy said: Isn't it better to have receipts to counter a fake and factually wrong argument? i wasn't factually wrong though, you are just being obtuse and off topic. the OP said Mariah is bigger than Madonna. I said Madonna received more streams on Spotify than Mariah, which is a factually correct statement. you can keep clogging up the thread with the song breakdowns but it won't change the fact Madonna received more streams. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.X Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) Madonna changed the industry to be more accommodating to female popstars, challenged cultural norms and played a part in advancing women and gay rights. All while delivering high quality albums and world tours that changed the landscape of what a pop tour is. She is the top female artist of all time, weather you like it or not. I'm not even a big Madonna fan, and detest her capitalist ways, and how she was the first great gentrifiers of Lisbon, for instance. Mariah was also massive and has had cultural impact in the music industry too. Taylor has barely changed herself let alone the industry. She has mainly accumulated wealth for herself, no actual cultural impact just unabashed capitalism. The sooner she dissapears, the better for all of us and the cultural landscape at large. Edited January 2 by Mr.X 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevyy Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 42 minutes ago, John Slayne said: i wasn't factually wrong though, you are just being obtuse and off topic. the OP said Mariah is bigger than Madonna. I said Madonna received more streams on Spotify than Mariah, which is a factually correct statement. you can keep clogging up the thread with the song breakdowns but it won't change the fact Madonna received more streams. you wanted to make a point. I countered it with a point which showed context. Madonna was streamed more yesterday, yay. well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readytowind Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, Infinity said: Mariah surpassed Madonna a long time ago. Taylor will surpass her in 2024 for sure. In your daydream. Or swiftie land. Edited January 3 by readytowind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readytowind Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 2 hours ago, Goaty said: You can chop up the BB200 in any way imaginable to fit whatever criteria you want and Taylor would still be outselling every other act in existence today and it wouldn’t be close either So??? At madonnas peak, she had more hits and still has all over the world. Sold more albums too. Without streaming gimmicks era. Outside the us, many people still don't know who that person is. Sometimes they don't even know which gender that person is by only hearing that name. It's not our fault that she has no bigger impact nor influence except for selling products in the us with multiple versions to inflate the sales. And rereleases the recycles Edited January 3 by readytowind 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spree Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 I can't even really think of any chart gimmicks that Madonna has done other than immediately release Justify My Love on VHS to offset the MTV backlash. Other than that, I'm not exactly sure what she's done to game the charts. Adding Beyonce and Katy Perry and Nikki Minaj to *****, I'm Madonna, perhaps. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readytowind Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 12 minutes ago, spree said: I can't even really think of any chart gimmicks that Madonna has done other than immediately release Justify My Love on VHS to offset the MTV backlash. Other than that, I'm not exactly sure what she's done to game the charts. Adding Beyonce and Katy Perry and Nikki Minaj to *****, I'm Madonna, perhaps. More stunning is the fact that at her peak madonna did it all by herself. All her hits were by solo. No duets nor featuring. Just her. She did achieve all the records by herself. She was the center and main show of everything. What an absolute legend and huge figure she is. She sold out shows around the stadiums when the tour market was not saturated nor expanded like these days and sold and made that many classic hits without sns nor streaming gimmicks. Making so much impact and change. Influential. A Disgrace to compare with other girls who benefit from and copy her 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewel Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 8 minutes ago, readytowind said: More stunning is the fact that at her peak madonna did it all by herself. All her hits were by solo. No duets nor featuring. Just her. She did achieve all the records by herself. She was the center and main show of everything. What an absolute legend and huge figure she is. She sold out shows around the stadiums when the tour market was not saturated nor expanded like these days and sold and made that many classic hits without sns nor streaming gimmicks. Making so much impact and change. Influential. A Disgrace to compare with other girls who benefit from and copy her Doing too much. The song that turned Madonna into an A-list superstar was Like a Virgin. She has no credit on it as a songwriter, composer or producer. She's just the singer. She served Rihanna on her star-making hit. No popstar is wholly original. If Mariah "benefits from and copied" Madonna, Madonna benefited from Cher, Blondie, Donna Summer, Annie Lennox and Marilyn Monroe. Edited January 3 by Jewel 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readytowind Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Jewel said: Doing too much. The song that turned Madonna into an A-list superstar was Like a Virgin. She has no credit on it as a songwriter, composer or producer. She's just the singer. She served Rihanna on her star-making hit. And then??? Since then she co wrote and co produced all her songs. And her producers all praised how good she worked with them. They said ages a great songwriter too. Like a virgin is a big song. There's no denying. sure. But after that she has had tones of hits and today other songs by her are getting more appreciation and streaming. And other songs sold more too. She's not one hit wonder. Edited January 3 by readytowind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orsay Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewel Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 2 minutes ago, readytowind said: And then??? Since then she co wrote and co produced all her songs. And her producers all praised how she worked with them. Like a virgin is a big song sure. But after that she had tones of hits and today other songs by her are getting more appreciation and streaming. And other songs sold more. Not denying her talent or impact, but you're making it sound like she did it all herself as well as erasing the impact of the women she took from. Edited January 3 by Jewel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readytowind Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Jewel said: No one is denying or talent or impact, but you're making it sound like she did it all herself. I never said she wrote all her songs. I was talking about 'solo' songs. Duh. Don't get picky because you read otherwise. Edited January 3 by readytowind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrier Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Yes! I say that as a big Mariah stan. Madonna's global success and impact combined as an artist and performer is far greater than either M or TS. I will however say that Taylor will certainly become to most numerically successful female artist of all time. But it is hard to balance those numbers when we are comparing acts from different generations... and then to balance that with unquantifiable metrics like cultural impact, it's tough. I would just say to Swifties to not get arrogant and to have respect for artists of other gens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevyy Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Mariah Carey also had solo hits. She has 15 solo US #1 hits for starters. I believe that Mariah build her career up on her own and had limited amounts of duets and collaborations. Nowadays, collaborations are more prominent. I believe Mariah Carey has had hits. Don't slap me for my believes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VioletsandRoses Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Why is this even a question. Mariah’s only global smash is AIWFC and that rock cover (forgot the name). Taylor has yet to have a global smash ala umbrella, poker face, I kissed a girl, etc. globally her albums are much more global than both. Even in Japan, Madonna was outselling her after the 90s. Madonna is unmatched. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goaty Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, readytowind said: So??? What do you mean "so???" You keep bringing up these qualifiers to Taylor's commercial performance as if they somehow take away from her dominance but even if you strip her numbers down to pure sales and remove the "gimmicks" she's outselling her peers total chart runs with one week of sales. Yes we may not be able to 1:1 compare Madonna and Taylor chart runs due to evolving metrics but we can compare each to their peers of the time period and Taylor is outselling her peers more than Madonna was outselling her peers. Which suggests that adjusted for their respective music climates Taylor is arguably more commercially dominant than Madonna in several key markets - and if she continues her momentum Madonna will be surpassed. Madonna will not be the most successful female musician forever. Someone will pass her. We have too many decades of music consumption ahead of us for her to not be surpassed. Will it be Taylor? Maybe, maybe not. It will depend on how the next few years go for her. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goaty Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Honestly I don't think even The Beatles will hold onto some of their records forever. We really haven't been tracking music consumption for very long in human history, and with how integral music is to the human experience and will be probably forever it's likely that there were be an act -- or several acts -- that surpass them. It's only a matter of time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spree Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 51 minutes ago, Goaty said: but we can compare each to their peers of the time period and Taylor is outselling her peers more than Madonna was outselling her peers. but Madonna was competing with some of the biggest stars of all time. Taylor is not. You certainly aren't comparing Michael Jackson and Prince to....Olivia Rodrigo as equal peers are you? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goaty Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, spree said: but Madonna was competing with some of the biggest stars of all time. Taylor is not. You certainly aren't comparing Michael Jackson and Prince to....Olivia Rodrigo as equal peers are you? You think OIivia Rodrigo is the kind of peer I'm talking about? You do realize Taylor's career spans back to the mid 2000s until now, right? We're talking Eminem, Rihanna, Drake, etc. all of whom are some of the biggest acts of the century. She's easily outselling them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goaty Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 This is what you do in every thread I've seen you in - find the smallest detail of my post and magnify it like it has any significance whatsoever and ignore everything else. Missing the forest for the trees yet again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spree Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 4 minutes ago, Goaty said: You think OIivia Rodrigo is the kind of peer I'm talking about? You do realize Taylor's career spans back to the mid 2000s until now, right? We're talking Eminem, Rihanna, Drake, etc. all of whom are some of the biggest acts of the century. She's easily outselling them all. Taylor releases 2-3 albums a year. Of course she sells more than artists who haven't released in almost a decade. Why even mention them? lol. if you're going to go back to the beginning of Taylor's career and say those people are her peers and not 2024 people, then I'm going to go all the way back to 1982 and say Madonna was competing with Thriller and 1999. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleStarmen Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 10 hours ago, Goaty said: MJ, Queen, and The Beatles, to name a few. What I think is more at play here is that these big artists like Mariah and . I think the more interesting question is how can an artist change that? Something needs to generate interest in their catalogs. Otherwise they will continue to miss out on millions and millions of people who have access to all their music These artists are dead. not only that but besides MJ all ended earlier or during their prime 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodak Energy Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 20 minutes ago, spree said: Taylor releases 2-3 albums a year. Of course she sells more than artists who haven't released in almost a decade. Why even mention them? lol. if you're going to go back to the beginning of Taylor's career and say those people are her peers and not 2024 people, then I'm going to go all the way back to 1982 and say Madonna was competing with Thriller and 1999. Taylor only has two more albums than Rihanna though. And she has less albums than Drake. She also has 10 studio albums to Madonna’s 15. For the vast majority of her career, she dropped an album every 2 years. It’s just she is re-recording her discography now to gain credit for it. OT: Neither has surpassed Madonna yet, but Taylor has potential to depending on how many more years she can remain the best selling artist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleStarmen Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 No shade but does Taylor has a real classic song like Umbrella, Like A Virgin/Vogue or All I want for Xmas ? Is that Blank Space? it wasnt as big back then 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Happy New Year's Medonsters and Lambs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts