base talk Is Britney a legend?

[TipToe]

Yes, maybe not so much for her achievements or artistic influence but her story is undeniably one of the most recognizable and interesting of the showbizz, she is one of a kind as a celebrity and very iconic for retrospective analysis on mass media industry, pop culture etc

[Into The Void]

Is water wet?

[Mystic Boy]

6 hours ago, Eternium said:

Wasn’t 2004 the year you dedicated your life to her? Only a legend like Britney Spears could keep you fuming away in that basement, sis!

 

OT: Yes. Britney Spears is a legend. We wouldn’t have K-pop, Jessica Simpson, Christina Aguilera, Ariana Grande, Lady Gaga, Charli XCX, Taylor Swift from Red-Lover, etc. if Britney Spears didn’t exist. Fans of any those artists would have to be idiots to try to argue against her legacy.

The nerve to say that, you're on this forum for as long as me  Filling this board with your absurd and delusional posts, a real joke known by everyone here

 

4 hours ago, jijie101 said:

Not this tired narrative again. By that logic Britney was successful because of Max Martin Gaga was the lead role of the movie, wrote and sang all the songs except one or two, was the absolute star of the movie and got immense success and acclaim for her performance and music. If anything, it was more impressive than a normal studio album comeback because Gaga smashed in both movie and music.

 

3 hours ago, jijie101 said:

Girl, Gaga was the lead role of ASIB and the entire soundtrack was made and sang by her. How is that comparable to Lion King where Beyonce did absolutely nothing but shamelessly made an whole album to ride on the success only for it to flop into oblivion? ASIB was made like 4 times, only Barbra's version was as successful as Gaga's. When people think of ASIB, they think of Gaga, can't say the same for S&S or any Britney song since Circus. Many people don't even know faceless forgotten songs like I Wanna Go was by her

They know that very well but chose embarrassment, a very well known Britney stans trait

[KOMH]

Maybe a tabloid one

[Cain]

Kind of? It’s kinda hard cause she’s not respected and seen as a sad story more than anything

 

But her 00s time is very iconic and referenced a lot

[prézli]

Since Day 1.

[prézli]

2 hours ago, Cain said:

It’s kinda hard cause she’s not respected

She was in 2008 when the industry realized how impactful she is.

[She-Rah]

Im going to say No.

 

she is infamous more than a legend. She is more discussed because of her tragic life and family troubles than her music. 

[Pepo]

Not at all. 

[Villas]

A legend survives through time, Britney’s catalogue didn’t. I don’t understand why its is hard to admit that she is in the past now, though she is important to pop culture and no one can argue different from that.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Villas

[Marry The Gods]

She became a legend when she recorded I'll Never Stop Loving You. One of the most beautiful songs ever recorded from a human being. 

[Wicked]

First, we have to agree on a definition for legend and judging by this thread that's impossible.

[Eternium]

5 hours ago, Mystic Boy said:

The nerve to say that, you're on this forum for as long as me  Filling this board with your absurd and delusional posts, a real joke known by everyone here

I’ve been here for half as long as you. You’ve been on this forum stalking Britney for the majority of my life, sis. I wish I was as dedicated to her as you are.

4 hours ago, Cain said:

Kind of? It’s kinda hard cause she’s not respected and seen as a sad story more than anything

 

But her 00s time is very iconic and referenced a lot

Respect does not make a legend. Mariah, Madonna, Michael Jackson, John Lennon, Aretha Franklin, Elvis, etc. were getting dragged left-and-right for the majority of their careers. What makes someone a legend is notoriety, ubiquity and substantial impact on the next generation. Respect is typically earned in hindsight when artists’ contributions are looked back on with reverence (see: just about every classical artist and author).

 

If “respect” is what makes an artist a legend, Alison Krause and Dusty Springfield are bigger legends than any other female artists.

 

[Eternium]

7 minutes ago, Villas said:

A legend survives through time, Britney’s catalogue didn’t. I don’t understand why its is hard to admit that she is in the past now, though she is important to pop culture and no one can argue different from that.

She has the most successful recurrent streaming catalog from a female artist that debuted before this century. And she did it under JIVE and RCA, no less  

[Homebrand]

Lol no

 

Britney’s catalogue in largely forgotten. Her longevity has been severely overrated on atrl. She has yet to prove her artistry and reasons for being a “legend” especially when compared against actual pop legends like Bey, Taylor, Madonna etc. 

After the smoke and mirrors, her career is mostly tabloid fodder. She had a cute run from 1999-2004 tho 

[jijie101]

1 hour ago, Eternium said:

I’ve been here for half as long as you. You’ve been on this forum stalking Britney for the majority of my life, sis. I wish I was as dedicated to her as you are.

Respect does not make a legend. Mariah, Madonna, Michael Jackson, John Lennon, Aretha Franklin, Elvis, etc. were getting dragged left-and-right for the majority of their careers. What makes someone a legend is notoriety, ubiquity and substantial impact on the next generation. Respect is typically earned in hindsight when artists’ contributions are looked back on with reverence (see: just about every classical artist and author).

 

If “respect” is what makes an artist a legend, Alison Krause and Dusty Springfield are bigger legends than any other female artists.

 

Imagine thinking Mariah, Aretha and freaking Michael Jackson are not respected They have more talent in their finger nails than Britney does in her whole body They had their bad times but their TALENT were what people remember them for. Also, to be respected you need to be universally KNOWN in the first place. Whatever artists you listed are not good examples. 

[jijie101]

Britney is an iconic pop artist, that's for sure. But to be a legend you need to be respected and remembered for your musical talent. Britney is just not one of them. 

[Scott Borchetta]

Nope, she's more of a cautionary tale

[swissman]

For a long while on ATRL I answered "no", and had a lengthy reasoning about why this was (namely the definition differences between "legend" and "icon" having "legend" be heavier on respect, while "icon" was heavier on achievement/notoriety). My statement usually ended with "she will probably get there one day" and I think that day has arrived.

 

Most people who I wouldn't in this moment consider a "legend" WILL become legends because nostalgia and looking back creates a more optimistic and less "of-the-moment" assessment of a career. Personal opinions fade in favour of social ones, and it becomes less about remembering blights than recalling high points and peaks.

 

There are tons of icons who may not be outright "respected" for their artistry, but in time are considered legends because of the way their image/sound/art has lived on and inspired people and created it's own lore.

 

Britney definitely has that now. I think this has majorly been helped by the way even non-fans have flocked to support her, and realized perhaps how badly they have treated or regarded her in the past, and this contributes to a sort of re-assessment of her status. imo, she is a legend.

[swissman]

8 hours ago, Eternium said:

I’ve been here for half as long as you. You’ve been on this forum stalking Britney for the majority of my life, sis. I wish I was as dedicated to her as you are.

Respect does not make a legend. Mariah, Madonna, Michael Jackson, John Lennon, Aretha Franklin, Elvis, etc. were getting dragged left-and-right for the majority of their careers. What makes someone a legend is notoriety, ubiquity and substantial impact on the next generation. Respect is typically earned in hindsight when artists’ contributions are looked back on with reverence (see: just about every classical artist and author).

 

If “respect” is what makes an artist a legend, Alison Krause and Dusty Springfield are bigger legends than any other female artists.

 

But just as you said in italics, even if all those mentioned in bold were dragged in their time, what has lingered from their careers IS respect. I think we'd need to ask someone who was around during their heyday to see if they were considered legends in real time, but I would doubt they were, at least not to the unassailable lengths they are considered legends now.

Respect is first and foremost what makes a legend, which is why Alison and Dusty are legends despite not having nearly the same pop credentials/success as Mariah, Madonna, MJ, etc. Bigger legends usually also have bigger success, because it allows more people to know and agree about their legend hood, but imo the threshold for legend hood is respect not "notoriety, ubiquity and impact". Those things make an "icon". People who represent a time, place, genre, style, image, etc.

I've said in my last post, I think we're at the point that Britney is getting her respect, and so is a legend, and that's a lot to do with nostalgia and the way her personal life has transpired to put her in a position of empathy, rather than judgement. That being said, I do think that respect is the key ingredient here.

[slw84]

8 hours ago, Eternium said:

She has the most successful recurrent streaming catalog from a female artist that debuted before this century. And she did it under JIVE and RCA, no less  

Yes, Top 5  streams for artists who debuted prior 2000 on an average day is 1) Shakira 2) Beyonce, 3) Sia, 4) Madonna and 5) Britney

Madonna got a boost with her frozen remix and thatsong with the weekend. Usually she's #4 and then of course Mariah is top 2 during xmas season.

19 minutes ago, swissman said:

For a long while on ATRL I answered "no", and had a lengthy reasoning about why this was (namely the definition differences between "legend" and "icon" having "legend" be heavier on respect, while "icon" was heavier on achievement/notoriety). My statement usually ended with "she will probably get there one day" and I think that day has arrived.

 

Most people who I wouldn't in this moment consider a "legend" WILL become legends because nostalgia and looking back creates a more optimistic and less "of-the-moment" assessment of a career. Personal opinions fade in favour of social ones, and it becomes less about remembering blights than recalling high points and peaks.

 

There are tons of icons who may not be outright "respected" for their artistry, but in time are considered legends because of the way their image/sound/art has lived on and inspired people and created it's own lore.

 

Britney definitely has that now. I think this has majorly been helped by the way even non-fans have flocked to support her, and realized perhaps how badly they have treated or regarded her in the past, and this contributes to a sort of re-assessment of her status. imo, she is a legend.

I wholeheartedly respect your shift in opinion as you waited for time to pass to reconsider. I believe many more have your take post 2021. Time magazine listed her. She's impacted pap laws and conservatorship laws embedded in pop culture for her music, personal life, in movies, commercials, tv moments, and all forms of media.

 

12 minutes ago, swissman said:

But just as you said in italics, even if all those mentioned in bold were dragged in their time, what has lingered from their careers IS respect. I think we'd need to ask someone who was around during their heyday to see if they were considered legends in real time, but I would doubt they were, at least not to the unassailable lengths they are considered legends now.

Respect is first and foremost what makes a legend, which is why Alison and Dusty are legends despite not having nearly the same pop credentials/success as Mariah, Madonna, MJ, etc. Bigger legends usually also have bigger success, because it allows more people to know and agree about their legend hood, but imo the threshold for legend hood is respect not "notoriety, ubiquity and impact". Those things make an "icon". People who represent a time, place, genre, style, image, etc.

I've said in my last post, I think we're at the point that Britney is getting her respect, and so is a legend, and that's a lot to do with nostalgia and the way her personal life has transpired to put her in a position of empathy, rather than judgement. That being said, I do think that respect is the key ingredient here.

Love you for this. We used to tussle back and forth (friendly) but I respect your POV and understand and believe post 2021 and then following up with a collab which made her the 6th female artist in US history to have a top 10 in 4 decades (Barbra, Cher, Madonna, Whitney, Mariah, and Britney) has helped push that respect forward despite polarizing takes on her social media account.

The book is going ot be launch of her full circle final lap as B10 will follow and an eventual biopic movie, broadway play on her life, signature apparel line and other ventures to solidify the final lap in the 2020s decade.

[sxmescudi]

is water wet

[unclefloprry]

YES 

Stream her best album 
 

 

[suburbannature]

I’ve made entire threads about why I didn’t think she was, but honestly, I think it’s delusional to deny it. She may not have the “artistry” but she’s made an indelible mark on the industry and much of her music has stood the test of time. 

[Wewee]

A legend ? No 

A 00s pop icon ? Yes