base talk Is Beyoncé vs Taylor the most boring stan war of all time?

[Badgalbriel]

But just so you guys know, this whole thing started waaaaay before the tours started. This fight started years ago. Beyoncé fans started being vicious towards Taylor on Twitter. The whole LWYMMD pose being a copy of Beyonce, they were the ones that incited Twitter against Taylor during the Kimye phone call cancelation, then they trended Mayo-chella when she performed with a marching band (which she had already done before during fearless). 

 

I'm not saying Swifties don't do the same, but I feel like Hive knows that them + sjw Twitter have been the biggest antis of anything-Taylor for years now. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Badgalbriel

[Devin]

3 minutes ago, Rotunda said:

Racism doesn’t imply that a Black artist can never be #1, but that the barriers to success impact artists of minority groups to a greater degree than artists of majority groups. The fact that you have to use the exception to disprove the rule is exactly why your point is idiotic. 

 

You’re serving “If racism exists how was Obama president?”

This is what I wanted to say but didn’t have the energy to go in depth. Thank u 

[Blue Rose]

It was the entire public calling Taylor’s performance Mayochella not just Hive.

Also let’s not forget that time Swifties got the Beyoncé base closed because they came in there comparing Blue Ivy to a monkey and making fun of Beyoncé’s miscarriages. The bottom of the barrel  

[PoisonedIvy]

20 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Aww thank you! You are so kind. 
 

I always try to be critical, but I’m still biased towards things I like/love. I don’t like when I get into those pointless arguments. However, I do see so many Swifties bringing Taylor in Beyoncé threads and it frustrates me deeply, so I might sometimes say things that wouldn’t be the best. However, it wouldn’t change the fact that August and All Too Well (10 Minute Version) are on my mind daily since I’ve heard them for the first time. 
 

This stupid stan war is even more ridiculous when you consider that those are the two women that respect each other and look up to each other. Beyoncé is the one who was there for Taylor at the VMAs and she was the one that helped shape the way Taylor does business, and Taylor has always said only the kindest things about Beyoncé and I’m sure Beyoncé follows what Taylor does and is inspired by her. 

I know there are some annoying Swifters that don’t let other women’s achievements get celebrated. And sometimes I can get sensitive to the Navy’s provocations for example,  when you’re passionate about something it’s almost impulsive to defend it in whatever way possible.

 

Every now and then I say something I’m not proud of as well but overall I try to set the example I want others to follow: we can celebrate and uplift all different kinds of artists without diminishing or degrading or deflecting to other artists as some sort of compare & contrast.
 

When Bey succeeds, there is no need to bring Taylor up. When Taylor succeeds, there’s no need to bring Bey up. Hopefully one day we can get to that point but the nature of humanity tells me that we won’t  So for my own sanity I just try to do so myself and encourage others who do by engaging with them more than the trolls. 

[Badgalbriel]

4 minutes ago, Blue Rose said:

It was the entire public calling Taylor’s performance Mayochella not just Hive.

Also let’s not forget that time Swifties got the Beyoncé base closed because they came in there comparing Blue Ivy to a monkey and making fun of Beyoncé’s miscarriages. The bottom of the barrel  

That was done by the monsters. Back there there were barely any Swiftie here 

[Jon Snow]

17 minutes ago, ugo said:

well there are members on both sides that will always be fighting 

And what about you? 

[liam13]

1 minute ago, Rotunda said:

Racism doesn’t imply that a Black artist can never be #1, but that the barriers to success impact artists of minority groups to a greater degree than artists of majority groups. The fact that you have to use the exception to disprove the rule is exactly why your point is idiotic. 

 

You’re serving “If racism exists how was Obama president?”

lmao, i have never said that racism doesnt exist and thats why mj was biggest.

you want some more names, sure. the weekend, rihanna, bad bunny... all poc artists that are bigger than beyonce currently and their music is streamed by the masses that couldnt give a fk about their skin color. or have you ever thought it was the music? how about the art? maybe their music is more digestible than bey's? somehow yall always go back that one card also goes to white skin too, if too many basic b*tches are out there, wheres another taylor?

 

youre serving "people enjoy taylor more because racism"

[PoisonedIvy]

7 minutes ago, Blue Rose said:

It was the entire public calling Taylor’s performance Mayochella not just Hive.

Also let’s not forget that time Swifties got the Beyoncé base closed because they came in there comparing Blue Ivy to a monkey and making fun of Beyoncé’s miscarriages. The bottom of the barrel  

This was awful, absolutely repugnant and the low point of this site for sure; but was that not either the Britney or Gaga fans — who, historically, have a far more vicious and deep-rooted conflict with the Hive ?

 

Not that it matters. That kind of thing should never have happened and hopefully never happens again. From any fanbase towards any other. All over some strangers who don’t even know us at that. 

[Kingdom]

2 hours ago, vale9001 said:

 Beyoncè  never had a peak era like of the ones of britney, whitney, prince, queen, adele, gaga or taylor. What should be her baby one more time,  purple rain, the fame monster, 21, the bodyguard, 1989. More impact in culture in the last decade than with music. 

 

So the fact they try to show she's the most relevant popstar in the current state of music (when she peaked as gp star the year obama was elected) is just giving non sense. "Even" Dua lipa last 10 years are bigger than Beyoncè.

 

They should just accept Beyoncè strongness is her longevity and talent as performer but she has never touched the MUSICAL penetration in culture beatles, taylor, madonna, MJ. whitney, elvis had  You can't be mad when people talks about  current Taylormania comparing to Beatles or MJ talking about THE SUCCESS OF MUSIC...beyoncè never touched something like this WITH MUSIC, even in 2003 or 2008. Just accept it and move on 

 

 

 

You said 1989, like i am sasha fierce wasn't one of the biggest pop girls eras.......telling us that we SHOULD JUST ACCEPT and submit to a white woman (YES WHITE) is asinine and very insulting.

 

You just wrote a whole paragraph trying to diminish the accomplishment of a BLACK woman to uplift taylor swift and yet you expect hive to BACK down and JUST accept...Yeah no

 

Focus of enjoying flat notes and ill gotten hip movements and nursery level performance abilities and never try to TALK down on black women.

[Jon Snow]

5 minutes ago, WeFoundTrouble said:

I know there are some annoying Swifters that don’t let other women’s achievements get celebrated. And sometimes I can get sensitive to the Navy’s provocations for example,  when you’re passionate about something it’s almost impulsive to defend it in whatever way possible.

 

Every now and then I say something I’m not proud of as well but overall I try to set the example I want others to follow: we can celebrate and uplift all different kinds of artists without diminishing or degrading or deflecting to other artists as some sort of compare & contrast.
 

When Bey succeeds, there is no need to bring Taylor up. When Taylor succeeds, there’s no need to bring Bey up. Hopefully one day we can get to that point but the nature of humanity tells me that we won’t  So for my own sanity I just try to do so myself and encourage others who do by engaging with them more than the trolls. 

You’re doing great 

 

Let us be the example of how Swifties and Hive can agree on things 

[PoisonedIvy]

Just now, Jon Snow said:

You’re doing great 

 

Let us be the example of how Swifties and Hive can agree on things 

Let’s start by agreeing that Beyonce needs to put a single on radio. There is no reason for this era to be so damn radio silent!! Like ma’am, you already withholding the visuals. Why you holding your songs hostage from the radio too  

[Jon Snow]

56 minutes ago, liam13 said:

lmao, i have never said that racism doesnt exist and thats why mj was biggest.

you want some more names, sure. the weekend, rihanna, bad bunny... all poc artists that are bigger than beyonce currently and their music is streamed by the masses that couldnt give a fk about their skin color. or have you ever thought it was the music? how about the art? maybe their music is more digestible than bey's? somehow yall always go back that one card also goes to white skin too, if too many basic b*tches are out there, wheres another taylor?

 

youre serving "people enjoy taylor more because racism"

Beyoncé is different than those people because she makes music that celebrates African American community. If you want to find someone who is like her, there is Kendrick Lamar. It’s different when you’re black and make music that appeals to white people and when you’re black and make music about how black you are and how you love being black 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Jon Snow

[Badgalbriel]

Also, Swifities can definitely stop with the superiority complex. There was no reason for you guys to go in that box score thread and claim "Taylor is coming", "wait until Taylor releases her numbers". 

[What_A_Mess]

They are both queens. I Watched the Renaissance Tour and The Eras tour. You can love both. They are not mutually exclusive 

Edited September 4, 2023 by What_A_Mess

[Kingdom]

4 minutes ago, liam13 said:

lmao, i have never said that racism doesnt exist and thats why mj was biggest.

you want some more names, sure. the weekend, rihanna, bad bunny... all poc artists that are bigger than beyonce currently and their music is streamed by the masses that couldnt give a fk about their skin color. or have you ever thought it was the music? how about the art? maybe their music is more digestible than bey's? somehow yall always go back that one card also goes to white skin too, if too many basic b*tches are out there, wheres another taylor?

 

youre serving "people enjoy taylor more because racism"

You sound like an ALL LIVES MATTER kind of person. Yikes...but not surprised.

 

What you just did is what is called tokenism.. Naming 4 POC artist does not negate the deep rooted systemic racism that allows white people to easily pierce through the system and get more opportunities than people of colour and specifically black skin(that is a very specific kind of struggle). You could name 20 other poc successful artists and the percentage will still  largely be in favour of WHITE mediocrity.

 

I also find it interesting you assume those listening to them don't care about colour. There are white people whose entire music library is HIP HOP and when push comes to shove they will be quick to weaponise their whiteness against you.

 

Hope you actually learn from this.

[Steve Johnson]

Hives are extremely obsessed with Taylor. Just go to Taylor’s base thread and we rarely talk about Beyoncé there. And check Beyoncé base thread, you’ll find pages and pages about Taylor and her success. 

[Jon Snow]

2 minutes ago, WeFoundTrouble said:

Let’s start by agreeing that Beyonce needs to put a single on radio. There is no reason for this era to be so damn radio silent!! Like ma’am, you already withholding the visuals. Why you holding your songs hostage from the radio too  

She’s gonna do her own thing, and I’m fine with that. She might do things that aren’t good for her career, but she always manages to shake things up. The same is with Lana. No radio may help them in the long run. I’m happy when I have good music to enjoy and good visuals which I don’t have right now, but patience is a virtue. If I were Beyoncé, though, I’d release the visuals, a documentary, a remix album and five singles to radio in the last year. Sadly, I’m not. I’m talentless and poor. 
Now I’m looking forward to 1989 TV, it’s my favorite TS album and it made me really like her back in 2014. But I lost that feeling when when it came to drama with Kim and Kanye though and the AOTY speech. I was also sad about Kendrick not winning. Taylor was one of my most streamed artists, though. Red TV was amazing. I even enjoyed Midnights, which is not as good as her previous work, in my opinion. 
Too many thoughts in my head right now 

[Kisuke]

Yes Bey is from a while different generation

then Taylor so idk why her fans keep attacking her 

4 minutes ago, Steve Johnson said:

Hives are extremely obsessed with Taylor. Just go to Taylor’s base thread and we rarely talk about Beyoncé there. And check Beyoncé base thread, you’ll find pages and pages about Taylor and her success. 

like how Taylor her fans are all over bey her tour threads 

[AxelFox]

It's the most frustrating for sure. The fact that Beyoncé gets compared to somebody like taylor swift on the frequent is beyond insulting. All because she's selling/being streamed a lot currently.

 

But that's a general problem with these younger generations I noticed, that nobody knows how to stay in their lane, show respect and feel entitled to their stupidity. 
 

You don't see the Hive talking **** about Mariah, Whitney, Janet and Madonna like that. And I'm gonna leave it at that. 

[Jon Snow]

Thank you to everyone who gives their best to stop this nonsense and move on  

 

#happybdaybeyoncé

[Steve Johnson]

4 minutes ago, Kisuke said:

like how Taylor her fans are all over bey her tour threads 

I don’t see any swifties in original renaissance tour thread. 

[MidnightsAtPeace]

I see a lot of BeyHives in here calling Taylor "mediocre" and "basic", and calling swifties or those who enjoy her music "mediocre people who need someone to relate to" (as if loving an artist because they're relatable is a bad thing), I think we know the problem here.

 

We love both Taylor and Beyoncé, both very talented and incredible in their own unique ways. meanwhile you guys are here insulting talented and beautiful women because you probably have nothing better to do. 

[PoisonedIvy]

 

3 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

She’s gonna do her own thing, and I’m fine with that. She might do things that aren’t good for her career, but she always manages to shake things up. The same is with Lana. No radio may help them in the long run. I’m happy when I have good music to enjoy and good visuals which I don’t have right now, but patience is a virtue. If I were Beyoncé, though, I’d release the visuals, a documentary, a remix album and five singles to radio in the last year. Sadly, I’m not. I’m talentless and poor. 
Now I’m looking forward to 1989 TV, it’s my favorite TS album and it made me really like her back in 2014. But I lost that feeling when when it came to drama with Kim and Kanye though and the AOTY speech. I was also sad about Kendrick not winning. Taylor was one of my most streamed artists, though. Red TV was amazing. I even enjoyed Midnights, which is not as good as her previous work, in my opinion. 
Too many thoughts in my head right now 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts  

 

You’re right that Bey doesn’t need the radio, I just think the music is solid and it deserves some more exposure. I love her embrace of blackness. It’s really progressive from a cultural standpoint and since I’m black myself it’s very meaningful on a personal level too. 
 

Kendrick losing for TPAB is one of those moments that is indeed tragic. GKMC is my favorite Kendrick album but TPAB is far and away his best. It’s quite literally genius beyond the comprehension of the general population. I love Taylor, 1989 is one of my lesser albums from her, but i understand it’s an absolute juggernaut. It was a very important album for her career and, quite literally, the biggest album of that year. TPAB displays a wide range of musical diversity and mature themes that Taylor wasn’t touching and probably never will be able to just due to her privilege and race. I’ve never personally held that AOTY win against her the way some other people seem to do— she benefits from white privilege but that’s something she can’t help.
 

The problem is our society that continues to neglect or ignore POC. Black and brown artists should be more recognized and awarded and hopefully we move in that direction soon because it’s been decades and we still haven’t even remotely caught up, especially in historical ceremonies like those of the Oscars and the Grammys. 

[Rotunda]

33 minutes ago, liam13 said:

lmao, i have never said that racism doesnt exist and thats why mj was biggest.

you want some more names, sure. the weekend, rihanna, bad bunny... all poc artists that are bigger than beyonce currently and their music is streamed by the masses that couldnt give a fk about their skin color. or have you ever thought it was the music? how about the art? maybe their music is more digestible than bey's? somehow yall always go back that one card also goes to white skin too, if too many basic b*tches are out there, wheres another taylor?

 

youre serving "people enjoy taylor more because racism"

Black art and black aesthetics are often highly commodified and highly consumed by white audiences. Rihanna, The Weeknd, and Michael Jackson are all Black artists who make music that is widely accessible and commodifiable by white audiences. Since the SoundScan era, even rap consumption has been widely consumed by suburban white boys who adopt Black affects, Black trends, and Black musics as a way to feel part of a life and space they deem to be cool. 
 

The difference between Beyoncé and a lot of the other mainstream Black pop or rap acts who achieve widespread success, is that she acts from a position that isn’t cool  for the average person to appropriate. Focusing on aesthetic and artistic choices that champion the community rather than ones that make the community’s aesthetics more accessible to non-Black people means that her appeal isn’t seen the same way by White audiences the same way the appeal of a Drake may be.

 

This doesn’t mean that her art is superior to these artists or that she is experiencing a unique form of racism. It means that she’s makes art that is less appealing to the White Gaze. 
 

Naming pop artist who de-emphasize race in their work, or naming rap artists who have their work fetishized so that White boys in McMansions can pretend to have some edge to them doesn’t detract from the point I’m making. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Rotunda

[Jon Snow]

4 minutes ago, WeFoundTrouble said:

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts  

 

You’re right that Bey doesn’t need the radio, I just think the music is solid and it deserves some more exposure. I love her embrace of blackness. It’s really progressive from a cultural standpoint and since I’m black myself it’s very meaningful on a personal level too. 
 

Kendrick losing for TPAB is one of those moments that is indeed tragic. GKMC is my favorite Kendrick album but TPAB is far and away his best. It’s quite literally genius beyond the comprehension of the general population. I love Taylor, 1989 is one of my lesser albums from her, but i understand it’s an absolute juggernaut. It was a very important album for her career and, quite literally, the biggest album of that year. TPAB displays a wide range of musical diversity and mature themes that Taylor wasn’t touching and probably never will be able to just due to her privilege and race. I’ve never personally held that AOTY win against her the way some other people seem to do— she benefits from white privilege but that’s something she can’t help.
 

The problem is our society that continues to neglect or ignore POC. Black and brown artists should be more recognized and awarded and hopefully we move in that direction soon because it’s been decades and we still haven’t even remotely caught up, especially in historical ceremonies like those of the Oscars and the Grammys. 

I’m okay with Taylor getting the awards. I’m fine with Folklore getting the AOTY too. I was just sad about Kendrick losing. I was disappointed when All Too Well lost SOTY this year, though. She deserved it. One of the best written songs in recent history.