Blue Monday Posted April 24, 2023 Posted April 24, 2023 7 hours ago, suburbannature said: Like I just really wanted to post the gif but I agree
Jjang Posted April 24, 2023 Posted April 24, 2023 As if self proclaimed fascist Biden can form a sentence anyway
Bang Up Posted April 24, 2023 Posted April 24, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, rihannafan said: What are you making this face about? We are quite literally in the midst of a trans genocide (which will turn into an LGBT genocide) and the only thing we can do to stop it is vote in these milquetoast Democrats. It's like y'all want trans people dead. 8 hours ago, Save-Me-Oprah said: Since when have either party held debates when they have an incumbent candidate? Let's be serious, this isn't news. Yeah, but knowing this fact doesn't give OP a chance to bash Dems and Biden, or to push Republican talking points. If a decent Democrat challenger arises, I will support debates. But as of right now, the only alternative to Biden and his slate of impressive legislative achievements, is a woman who is a pathological liar and thinks praying can fix things. BTW, when is ATRL going to crack down on people like the OP who push right-wing talking points and support trans genocide in the name of "sticking it to the Dems"? 3 hours ago, GraceRandolph said: I mean, these polls are still conducted the old-fashioned way that essentially leave out the young vote. The young may not like Biden, but they will vote for him to keep Trump out of the office just like they've been voting for Dems since 2020. Edited April 24, 2023 by Bang Up
PrettyHurts Posted April 24, 2023 Posted April 24, 2023 (edited) Marianne has them SHOOK Edited April 24, 2023 by PrettyHurts
Bears01 Posted April 24, 2023 Posted April 24, 2023 If he had a legit primary challenger (ala Bernie) that would be good. Marianne and RFK jr are not it.
ClashAndBurn Posted April 24, 2023 Author Posted April 24, 2023 When ATRL cracks down on bad-faith accusations of “supporting trans genocide” maybe. People like @Bang Up actively push people away from voting for Democrats with their alienating bullshit. Frankly you’re doing more to advance the cause of trans genocide (and LGBT genocide) with your attitudes towards even the most mild of dissent.
ATRL Administrator Ryan Posted April 24, 2023 ATRL Administrator Posted April 24, 2023 10 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said: When ATRL cracks down on bad-faith accusations of “supporting trans genocide” maybe. People like @Bang Up actively push people away from voting for Democrats with their alienating bullshit. Frankly you’re doing more to advance the cause of trans genocide (and LGBT genocide) with your attitudes towards even the most mild of dissent. There’s nothing wrong with dissent. It’s the obtuse posturing and idealistic positions that annoy people. The reality is Biden is the person we *have* to vote for because there are no serious alternatives either from those running as Dems, the GOP or independents. Anyone other than him is a wasted vote of protest or whatever, so people can feel good about not voting for him leaving it to GOP victory and they can claim how the party “should have done this or nominated this progressive liberal with no platform of success” and then blame the party establishment for not doing it, all the while everything goes to hell.
Pop Posted April 24, 2023 Posted April 24, 2023 President Biden is doing an incredible job as POTUS Obviously he will win in 2024 and defeat Don The Con once more.
SmittenCake Posted April 24, 2023 Posted April 24, 2023 1 hour ago, getBusy said: Bc the alternative is so much better… 🤔 That's what i was told last time and Biden is doing everything "the alternative" was going to do
ClashAndBurn Posted April 24, 2023 Author Posted April 24, 2023 17 minutes ago, Ryan said: There’s nothing wrong with dissent. It’s the obtuse posturing and idealistic positions that annoy people. The reality is Biden is the person we *have* to vote for because there are no serious alternatives either from those running as Dems, the GOP or independents. Anyone other than him is a wasted vote of protest or whatever, so people can feel good about not voting for him leaving it to GOP victory and they can claim how the party “should have done this or nominated this progressive liberal with no platform of success” and then blame the party establishment for not doing it, all the while everything goes to hell. Most people’s individual votes do not matter in the grand scheme of things. A New Yorker or Californian Bernie supporter who abstains from voting is not “responsible for Trump getting into office.” Yet they disproportionately get the most blame from liberals even though their vote in 2016 factually meant nothing. Just as much as my vote for Hillary in 2016 factually meant nothing, given she lost my state by more than 5%. Unless you live in the state of Wisconsin specifically, your vote most likely has no impact on the presidency. Sorry. But until the Electoral College is erased, Liberals are just preaching at disaffected voters who have lost all hope in the system for a reason. And that reason is because of people like Joe Biden.
Communion Posted April 24, 2023 Posted April 24, 2023 39 minutes ago, Bang Up said: It's like y'all want trans people dead. Allowing a candidate as wildly disliked and unelectable as Biden to run is tantamount to helping the Republicans win on purpose. People who care about trans people wouldn't allow Biden to run. Just look at how all those people who allowed Hillary to run despite being unelectable gave us Trump. Have you learned nothing from 2016?
Communion Posted April 24, 2023 Posted April 24, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Ryan said: There’s nothing wrong with dissent. It’s the obtuse posturing and idealistic positions that annoy people. The reality is Biden is the person we *have* to vote for because there are no serious alternatives either from those running as Dems, the GOP or independents. Anyone other than him is a wasted vote of protest or whatever, so people can feel good about not voting for him leaving it to GOP victory and they can claim how the party “should have done this or nominated this progressive liberal with no platform of success” and then blame the party establishment for not doing it, all the while everything goes to hell. Did telling people they had to vote for a widely disliked candidate work in 2016? It's genuinely confusing to see the direct contrast of what Clinton did in 2016 and what Biden did in 2020 and suggest Biden should now mimick Clinton and ignore the way that giving into those to his left gave him more electoral success in 2020. Biden being pushed to the left in 2020 made him electable. A Biden primary in 2020 without Sanders results in a Trump win. There's no logic in not keeping Biden's feet to the fire. Edited April 24, 2023 by Communion
Sazare Posted April 24, 2023 Posted April 24, 2023 8 hours ago, Ryan said: I would proudly cast my vote for Biden in a primary, just as I did in 2020. I will proudly vote for him again for president as I did in 2020. There are no better options, with a record of achievements to replace him. I don’t need to agree with him 100% of the time, just a majority. And I do. And thus he has my support. The Supreme Court, the senate, the house are too important to lose to the nonsense that plagued the 2016 campaign and tried to in 2020.
Vermillion Posted April 24, 2023 Posted April 24, 2023 29 minutes ago, Ryan said: There’s nothing wrong with dissent. It’s the obtuse posturing and idealistic positions that annoy people. The reality is Biden is the person we *have* to vote for because there are no serious alternatives either from those running as Dems, the GOP or independents. Anyone other than him is a wasted vote of protest or whatever, so people can feel good about not voting for him leaving it to GOP victory and they can claim how the party “should have done this or nominated this progressive liberal with no platform of success” and then blame the party establishment for not doing it, all the while everything goes to hell. This was literally THE 2016 debate on this forum that lasted hundreds of pages and peaked when Susan Sarandon promoted the chaos theory on Chris Hayes show that either 3rd-party or write-in protest votes were worth the subsequent chaos that would ensue to accelerate change to wake-up limousine liberals that otherwise hadn't had to suffer prior, not caring for the damage that would occur in in the interim to millions. Why Hillary didn't win is the deadest of all dead horses on this forum followed in a close second by this debate. I already engaged in both and got nowhere and clearly we haven't gotten anywhere since then. 6 minutes ago, Communion said: Did telling people they had to vote for a widely disliked candidate work in 2016? The one glaring asterisk working in the lesser-of-two-evils argument's favor in the Electoral College is the defeat of Dobbs. If Biden squeaks out a win against Trump in the Upper Midwest, it will be because Roe has now been proven to beat inflation in potency. Ron DeSantis would beat Biden, but I've been consistent with both those arguments for about a year.
Communion Posted April 24, 2023 Posted April 24, 2023 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Ryan said: “should have done this or nominated this progressive liberal with no platform of success” l Biden explicitly won in 2020 due to young voters via him appropriating pillars of Bernie's platform. Please actually look into the facts of what is a successful platform before denigrating progressive politics as unsuccessful. That is how the post is reading. Not even Democratic primary voters in 2020 deemed Biden's platform as successful. Exit polls showed us Bernie's platform was more popular. Biden was just seen as more electable via the Obama coalition and nostalgia and thus deemed "safer" by scared voters. Polls consistently showed that Biden voters routinely did so because they thought he could beat Trump, even when saying they supported Bernie's policies more or thinking Bernie was more likely to actually care about people like them. Edited April 24, 2023 by Communion
ATRL Administrator Ryan Posted April 24, 2023 ATRL Administrator Posted April 24, 2023 35 minutes ago, Communion said: Please actually look into the facts of what is a successful platform before denigrating progressive politics as unsuccessful. That is how the post is reading. A tangible record of success. Do any of the people actually running have a record of implementation of the policies they support? As in, “as mayor, county executive, state senator or representative, governor, attorney general, I instituted these policies and they were successful in these ways.” That’s what I mean. It’s easy to argue the theory of why these things should be supported, it’s another to show them working in every day life. If progressive liberals (who are actually in power and not just running for it) had a successful slate of accomplishments that people can see and support, it would be an easier haul to get them to support a presidential candidate running on it because they can see it works.
BletaRexher Posted April 24, 2023 Posted April 24, 2023 I doubt Biden could even debate for over an hour without caving in
Frogger17 Posted April 24, 2023 Posted April 24, 2023 (edited) Off-Cycle: "I will not be bullied into voting for the Democrats!" Election Cycle: "omg, the Republicans are committing genocide, fascism, Nazi, CRT, book ban, WW3" Off Cycle: "I will not be bullied into voting for the Democrats!" I can't wait to see what the Right bans next so ya'll can complain and say it's the Democrats' fault for not putting up a candidate more aligned with your ever-shifting morals and ever-changing ideals. I also can't wait for us to continue arguing these points and pointing fingers while we're on the bus to the death camps. Edited April 24, 2023 by Frogger17
Bethenny Frankel Posted April 24, 2023 Posted April 24, 2023 13 hours ago, Save-Me-Oprah said: Since when have either party held debates when they have an incumbent candidate? Let's be serious, this isn't news. Exactly. There is no reason for this.
Kassi Posted April 24, 2023 Posted April 24, 2023 The way you would almost forget that Biden won his Senate seat, the VP-ship, and a presidency. Imagine replacing a winner with a record of achievements with woo woo madame Marianne or supporting an ACTUAL political dynasty (which they falsely accused Hillary of being just for being a First Lady), all to “own the libs”. People can NOT like Biden, but it doesn’t mean he won’t benefit from the incumbent effect, a long record of legislative victories, and name brand recognition. For the DNC to try and “shake things up” just for giggles, would be like betting against a winning horse. Not only would Biden most likely win again, but the 2024 news cycle would be splashed with negative and disenchanting headlines about all Democrats in the race. Ugh. Incumbents can only serve two terms. So please stop the madness, you get to have your woo woo madame in 2028.
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted April 24, 2023 ATRL Moderator Posted April 24, 2023 This is such a horrible precedent. We need to stop just assuming incumbents are owed a lane. Voters should have the choice to revisit the candidacy of an incumbent candidate in a supposed Democracy. For full transparency, I strongly dislike Biden and think he’s a bad president. But, it would be a good opportunity for him to prove his naysayers (like me) wrong by making the case that he’s the best for the job against his contemporaries in a primary. If I have just his already shoddy record of siding with segregationists, defending credit card companies, and personally making it impossible for people to file bankruptcy for student debt, then I don’t have a strong reason to vote for him in 2024. If he wants to appeal to voters that are less impressed with the current status of his presidency, a primary is a golden opportunity for him.
ClashAndBurn Posted April 24, 2023 Author Posted April 24, 2023 4 hours ago, Kassi said: The way you would almost forget that Biden won his Senate seat, the VP-ship, and a presidency. Imagine replacing a winner with a record of achievements with woo woo madame Marianne or supporting an ACTUAL political dynasty (which they falsely accused Hillary of being just for being a First Lady), all to “own the libs”. People can NOT like Biden, but it doesn’t mean he won’t benefit from the incumbent effect, a long record of legislative victories, and name brand recognition. For the DNC to try and “shake things up” just for giggles, would be like betting against a winning horse. Not only would Biden most likely win again, but the 2024 news cycle would be splashed with negative and disenchanting headlines about all Democrats in the race. Ugh. Incumbents can only serve two terms. So please stop the madness, you get to have your woo woo madame in 2028. Biden might not even survive to Election Day. His brain is barely there as it is, and he hides from the media because he can’t form complete sentences to respond to questions about policy. His VP is just as incoherent and inspires even less confidence, yet she’s likely to be anointed despite being universally despised and you people will be crowing about how we need to get over it and support YASS Queen Kamala. You also overstate Biden’s rate of success. His history is one of failing upwards. He had to leave the 1988 presidential race for plagiarizing a speech for ****’s sake
publikcitizen Posted April 25, 2023 Posted April 25, 2023 Didn’t they do this in 2012? Seems normal for an incumbent president.
ClashAndBurn Posted April 25, 2023 Author Posted April 25, 2023 1 minute ago, publikcitizen said: Didn’t they do this in 2012? Seems normal for an incumbent president. There wasn’t even a contest in 2012. Barack Obama ran unopposed, and he was regarded as having lost to Mitt Romney in the debates due to being out of practice. He came close to losing in the general as well, but Ohio held blue, which it wouldn’t do if 2012 election were held in the political climate of today. Ironically, Joe Biden destroyed Paul Ryan, but that wouldn’t be the reality now that he’s lost much of the mental acuity that he had back then.
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