news Democrats Cancel Primary Debates for 2024

[Archetype]

1 minute ago, ClashAndBurn said:

This party interference and undermining of democracy has “become” normal after Jimmy Carter got primaried in 1980 and George HW Bush got primaried in 1992, but it shouldn’t have to be. You rolling over and accepting it is explicitly part of the problem.

So you’re saying this has been normal for over 40 years and it’s “rolling over” if we’re not outraged by something that has zero impact over this election cycle’s nominee? 

[Sesame]

Tiktok has been leaning Marianne so shutting her out completely might be a bad move if they want young people to actually get out and vote for B*den. 

[Bhabylon]

America is scared of a smart woman huh 

 

[Zaram]

If Biden runs 2024 again then Republicans will for sure win

That guy is mentally not fit anymore to run for president.

[Ryan]

8 minutes ago, rihannafan said:

Do you have an issue with me being a realist?

[HEAVYONIT]

Why would there be primary debates?? A Democrat is currently president. When has this ever happened when the incumbent president is up for re-election? Trump had primary challengers and there were no debates. Stop acting like this a just Democrats. 

[ClashAndBurn]

3 minutes ago, Archetype said:

So you’re saying this has been normal for over 40 years and it’s “rolling over” if we’re not outraged by something that has zero impact over this election cycle’s nominee? 

You have accepted the Democratic Party’s anti democratic behavior so yes. This would actually even be the first attempted primary of an incumbent since then because there would have only been two instances where it would have been applicable. Bernie threatened a primary of Obama in 2012 when he was making deals with republicans to make Social Security cuts and Bernie backed down from it after Obama backed down on making those cuts and Harry Reid had to talk him out of it.

 

Quote

 

Bernie Sanders got so close to running a primary challenge to President Barack Obama that Senator Harry Reid had to intervene to stop him.

It took Reid two conversations over the summer of 2011 to get Sanders to scrap the idea, according to multiple people who remember the incident, which has not been previously reported.

That summer, Sanders privately discussed a potential primary challenge to Obama with several people, including Patrick Leahy, his fellow Vermont senator. Leahy, alarmed, warned Jim Messina, Obama’s presidential reelection-campaign manager. Obama’s campaign team was “absolutely panicked” by Leahy’s report, Messina told me, since “every president who has gotten a real primary has lost a general [election].”

 

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/02/sanders-obama-primary-challenge/606709/

[rihannafan]

2 minutes ago, Ryan said:

Do you have an issue with me being a realist?

It's one thing to vote for Biden because the alternative is worse and it's another thing to proudly vote for Biden, who by all accounts has caused many unnecessary deaths overseas and has done his fair share of damage domestically too.

[ClashAndBurn]

Just now, Black Jesus said:

Why would there be primary debates?? A Democrat is currently president. When has this ever happened when the incumbent president is up for re-election? Trump had primary challengers and there were no debates. Stop acting like this a just Democrats. 

Both parties being anti-democratic forces isn’t a good thing!

 

Trump’s primary challengers were all much less legitimate, however, so there is a bit of a difference. Kinda funny to see all the justifications of the parties circling their wagons around feeble old men that NOBODY wants to be president other than the sycophants in their fan bases.

[Helios]

2 minutes ago, rihannafan said:

It's one thing to vote for Biden because the alternative is worse and it's another thing to proudly vote for Biden, who by all accounts has caused many unnecessary deaths overseas and has done his fair share of damage domestically too.

And here we go again. The predictable shaming of Biden supporters. Now it makes sense why the politics thread only has the same 4 people posting in it every day.  

[rihannafan]

6 minutes ago, Helios said:

And here we go again. The predictable shaming of Biden supporters. Now it makes sense why the politics thread only has the same 4 people posting in it every day.  

Girl bye, that you got this from what I posted is just...

[ClashAndBurn]

9 minutes ago, Helios said:

And here we go again. The predictable shaming of Biden supporters. Now it makes sense why the politics thread only has the same 4 people posting in it every day.  

You act like Bernie supporters weren’t mocked for years on this site, reported as national security threats to the FBI/CIA and told they deserved to die for DARING to want healthcare.  

[Sergi91]

30 minutes ago, Ryan said:

I would proudly cast my vote for Biden in a primary, just as I did in 2020. I will proudly vote for him again for president as I did in 2020. There are no better options, with a record of achievements to replace him. I don’t need to agree with him 100% of the time, just a majority. And I do. And thus he has my support.

 

The Supreme Court, the senate, the house are too important to lose to the nonsense that plagued the 2016 campaign and tried to in 2020. 

Well said 

[ClashAndBurn]

11 minutes ago, rihannafan said:

Girl bye, that you got this from what I posted is just...

He legitimately thinks unapologetic Biden supporters are a persecuted class on this forum when they are a vast majority constantly shouting down any dissent against Biden as "divisive" and "helping Republicans"  

[Ryan]

23 minutes ago, rihannafan said:

It's one thing to vote for Biden because the alternative is worse and it's another thing to proudly vote for Biden, who by all accounts has caused many unnecessary deaths overseas and has done his fair share of damage domestically too.

I explicitly stated there is no other option. But yes, I proudly voted for him. He was the best candidate to lead us through COVID. He was the best candidate to lead us through the mess that was Trump.
 

And let’s be clear, it’s easy to hold an idealist position about your preferred candidates until they’re actually in power making decisions that have real ramifications. I don’t have the luxury of holding that anymore. Politicians make decisions that kill people. That’s the reality. Bernie would have to do it. Marianne would have to do it. 

[Archetype]

15 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

You have accepted the Democratic Party’s anti democratic behavior so yes. This would actually even be the first attempted primary of an incumbent since then because there would have only been two instances where it would have been applicable. Bernie threatened a primary of Obama in 2012 when he was making deals with republicans to make Social Security cuts and Bernie backed down from it after Obama backed down on making those cuts and Harry Reid had to talk him out of it.

 

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/02/sanders-obama-primary-challenge/606709/

It’s not as simple as you’re making it out to be.  Biden has absolutely zero challengers who have any chance at beating him in the primary.  Zero.  I get wanting to hold it out of principle, and if that’s your point, then go off.  It’s just that this changes nothing for anyone.  Marianne is not capable of pushing Biden left, she is not capable of winning, and the GP thinks she’s crazy.  I personally like her, but she’s created a specific caricature of herself that she plays on TV and is then confused as to why people don’t take her seriously.  

[ClashAndBurn]

Just now, Archetype said:

 Biden has absolutely zero challengers who have any chance at beating him in the primary.  Zero.

Of course, the only way to ensure that is to not have any debates. The public is under the impression that Biden is running unopposed, and at this point, given the way the media have portrayed this race, he is, even though he's extremely vulnerable. Nobody likes him, most DEMOCRATS want someone else, but they're too scared of causing party damage even though Biden is a flop.

 

There's a reason these debates are being cancelled, and it's not because "we haven't had a primary challenger since 40 years ago." It's because, institutionally, the Democratic Party sees incumbent primaries as a waste of time at best and actively damaging at worst. They know Biden has a high likely of embarrassing himself by drooling on stage and having his dentures pop out of his mouth because, well... It happened last time. Multiple times.

 

There likely won't be general election debates either, btw. Both Trump and Biden would want to avoid that public humiliation because neither of those two geriatrics ever come out of them looking good in 2020. But the DNC would let those happen if they do end up going on because at that point it's too late for Democratic primary voters to have buyer's remorse.

[Lil Mxnster]

A democratic party, indeed 

[Save-Me-Oprah]

1 hour ago, ClashAndBurn said:

Biden is not the nominee until after the primary (which has been rigged in advance for him btw) has concluded and he is advanced by the DNC.

 

Crowning incumbents with no legitimate challengers is extremely dangerous. The Democrats used to allow incumbents to be primaried, but they’ve been spooked out of it ever since Jimmy Carter (who Biden is maybe just as deeply unpopular as). 
 

You guys really aren’t even trying to hide your disdain for Democracy anymore. Lol.

To date, exactly zero incumbent presidents have ever participated in a primary debate. Like ever.

 

Stop being purposely obtuse. Marianne Williamson and her super energy crystals is not a serious candidate.

 

[Save-Me-Oprah]

18 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

Of course, the only way to ensure that is to not have any debates. The public is under the impression that Biden is running unopposed, and at this point, given the way the media have portrayed this race, he is, even though he's extremely vulnerable. Nobody likes him, most DEMOCRATS want someone else, but they're too scared of causing party damage even though Biden is a flop.

 

There's a reason these debates are being cancelled, and it's not because "we haven't had a primary challenger since 40 years ago." It's because, institutionally, the Democratic Party sees incumbent primaries as a waste of time at best and actively damaging at worst. They know Biden has a high likely of embarrassing himself by drooling on stage and having his dentures pop out of his mouth because, well... It happened last time. Multiple times.

 

There likely won't be general election debates either, btw. Both Trump and Biden would want to avoid that public humiliation because neither of those two geriatrics ever come out of them looking good in 2020. But the DNC would let those happen if they do end up going on because at that point it's too late for Democratic primary voters to have buyer's remorse.

Even 40 years ago when there actually was a legitimate primary challenger there still were no debates.

 

It's a screech that you try to make this out to be the Democratic Party doing something out of line, when both sides have never put on a debate when they're incumbent.

 

[ClashAndBurn]

31 minutes ago, Save-Me-Oprah said:

Even 40 years ago when there actually was a legitimate primary challenger there still were no debates.

 

It's a screech that you try to make this out to be the Democratic Party doing something out of line, when both sides have never put on a debate when they're incumbent.

 

 

1 hour ago, ClashAndBurn said:

Both parties being anti-democratic forces isn’t a good thing!

You don't even try to engage.

[Communion]

1 hour ago, Ryan said:

I would proudly cast my vote for Biden in a primary, just as I did in 2020. I will proudly vote for him again for president as I did in 2020. There are no better options, with a record of achievements to replace him. I don’t need to agree with him 100% of the time, just a majority. And I do. And thus he has my support.

 

The Supreme Court, the senate, the house are too important to lose to the nonsense that plagued the 2016 campaign and tried to in 2020. 

The "nonsense" you're describing is the sole reason why any progressive movement exists in the US.

 

Literally any progress to the left that has been made in this country in the last decade is owed to Bernie Sanders. The Joe Biden that existed before the year 2020 literally got personal joy from young people being locked up for smoking weed or saddled with debt for life by virtue of being poor. 

 

The Joe Biden you think exists and the one for whom history knows are two different people. And that's fine to personally adore a politician, but be prepared to do so at your own risk:

 

[HEAVYONIT]

1 hour ago, ClashAndBurn said:

Both parties being anti-democratic forces isn’t a good thing!

 

Trump’s primary challengers were all much less legitimate, however, so there is a bit of a difference. Kinda funny to see all the justifications of the parties circling their wagons around feeble old men that NOBODY wants to be president other than the sycophants in their fan bases.

Marianne is big a “more legitimate” candidate, no matter how much y’all try to push it…it’s not happening 

[Communion]

50 minutes ago, Save-Me-Oprah said:

To date, exactly zero incumbent presidents have ever participated in a primary debate. Like ever.

Trying to argue that historical precedence means anything is a fallacy given that primaries themselves are a fairly new phenomenon in American politics, let alone in their current form. 

 

Democrats deciding their nominee by contests in all states and allowing everyone a fair say didn't become a thing until the late 70s. It used to be that the 'real' voices of the party, with undue influence, finalized the nominee on the convention floor once enough delegates were hit, regardless of total contests.

 

You just have to look at when the DNC asserted in 2020 that it was actually a private company that was under no legal obligation to fulfill any decision made via votes to see relics of its past.

 

1976 was the first time primaries were the main way Dems decided their nominee and ended up being the year that began the primaries as we know them today. There were demands in 1980 for Carter to participate in primary debates and he refused - he went on to lose to Reagan in the presidential.

 

Primaries didn't utilize proportionality until 1992. The 'superstar' incumbency awarded to Clinton in 1996 and Obama in 2012 is a new idea that should be observed under the reality that both objectively left the Democratic Party in a worse state after both of their presidencies, no matter winning twice.

 

"It's never been done that way" - Iowa has been the leading state since the 70s and yet that has changed after 50+ years because people agree aspects of the primary should be updated to reflect current realities of the party (and because the president himself was embarrassed he did so poorly there in 2020).

 

2016 + 2022 - no matter how people feel - fundamentally changed the average Americans' understanding of electoral politics. You cannot enjoy the benefits of this change (heightened political awareness and increased turnout) while resenting the realities of that change (people wanting debates).

[Save-Me-Oprah]

I'm not reading that but y'all can have fun fuming