Does 'writing camp' really take away from Beyoncé's artistry?

[Zaram]

Beyonce and artistry?

That girl sings and dances, but beside changing one, two words in a song she doesn't have much involvement in her albums.

[Josh]

1 minute ago, Zaram said:

Beyonce and artistry?

That girl sings and dances, but beside changing one, two words in a song she doesn't have much involvement in her albums.

 

for example

[Bears01]

27 minutes ago, Bang Up said:

because our fave's PR teams didn't spend the last decade forcing the idea that if you don't like them or praise them to the high heavens, you are racist. it is "uncool" to criticize beyonce so these journalist don't dare. the fact that beyonce continues to lose these big awards (oscars and grammys) goes to show this is the truth. when people are able to let their thoughts be known anonymously and without backlash, they show they are not here for beyonce and her writing camps. if these music reviewers were able to review beyonce anonymously, we would see them treat beyonce the same way the grammys have.

 

//

 

  

she literally just lost AOTY yet again because the voters (outside of ATRL) do in fact care. it's obvious beyonce's reputation within the industry is nothing close to what we see on stan twitter.

 

///

 

and of course. what kind of question is this? someone who pays others to create their art is not an artist in and of themselves. she's an aggregator of talent, but not the talent herself (writing, composing-wise). 

You spend too much time on ATRL and Stan wars darling. Let’s get you to bed 

[Ryan]

Writing camps are an exchange of ideas and actually spark creativity. This idea that somehow she’s (or anyone) is less of an artist because they rely on others in their creative process is asinine at best and obtuse at worst. I’m part of a writing team for scripts and stuff and when we get together to workshop our ideas we bring out the best in each other. The same applies here. 

[JonginBey]

Not at all. 

[QueenBLadyG]

It's actually the haters attempting to make it seem like having "writing camps" is somehow a Beyoncé gimmick that no on else utilizes. Musicians have sessions with other musicians every day. She somehow gets criticized for it despite being a proven songwriter. The amount of comments underneath any post of hers calling her a range of things only came from the snakes staying in each and every post slandering her name. Making sure lies and narratives stick and get pushed by other jealous, bitter losers who hate her because they envy her. 

[byzantium]

Obviously not writing music does not allow Beyoncé to have the artistry associated with writing music. 
 

Beyoncé is an artist that deserves credit and the music as a whole is polished but let’s not diminish the artistry of songwriting in this conversation.

[UnusualBoy]

Probably not because the final product delivers which is not the case with many of the other girls who use writing camps too.

[rowlet]

In my opinion no, but in the Grammy committee's opinion definitely. She will never win AOTY despite her massive talent because they don't see her as a true musician

[Auraeolux]

Of course it does, to not do so would effectively undermine the talent and contributions of those writers. At the same time, the ability to  interpret and curate those miscelleaneous  sounds into a cohesive and well-thought-out album requires a degree of artistry that others lack. She's probably one of the few cases where the latter gives her more "artistry points" than those who completely write and produce a mediocre album.

[Mariya Takeuchi]

45 minutes ago, Bang Up said:

because our fave's PR teams didn't spend the last decade forcing the idea that if you don't like them or praise them to the high heavens, you are racist.

Your faves PR teams are **** then 

[HausOfPunk]

18 minutes ago, Ryan said:

Writing camps are an exchange of ideas and actually spark creativity. This idea that somehow she’s (or anyone) is less of an artist because they rely on others in their creative process is asinine at best and obtuse at worst. I’m part of a writing team for scripts and stuff and when we get together to workshop our ideas we bring out the best in each other. The same applies here. 

Yes, but do you then take the work of your collaborators and pass it off as your own creation?

[Aristide]

24 minutes ago, Ryan said:

Writing camps are an exchange of ideas and actually spark creativity. This idea that somehow she’s (or anyone) is less of an artist because they rely on others in their creative process is asinine at best and obtuse at worst. I’m part of a writing team for scripts and stuff and when we get together to workshop our ideas we bring out the best in each other. The same applies here. 

Right but people are saying Beyoncé doesn't write the music at all or her input is minimal evidenced by the fact that she has 20+ other writers just for one song. Like how much help does a "legend" need, ya know?

 

Compare that with Harry's House where it's just the artist and one or two other songwriters. Much more authentic and impressive artistry 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Aristide

[Monday Night Messiah]

It only takes away from her because somehow, every time she's talked about writing songs, she always says "I wrote [this for all the girls out there]" (referring to "Irreplaceable"), and not being straightforward and honest about her contributions. It wouldn't be such a big deal otherwise.

[Loghen]

1 hour ago, AxelFox said:

We all can agree on the fact that Beyoncé is not much of a composer, as she very rarely creates something from scratch. But it is also not a case where she is given a demo, is told what to sing, how to sing it and releases it as is. She is always changing stuff, adding stuff, re-arranging stuff, bringing new ideas into it, essentially giving her own touch to a record that would not have been the same without her contribution.

 

I think this is part of the problem; not everyone will agree on that. Some will call her a songwriter, which we know is just a lil tad unfair on people who write songs from scratch, often by themselves.

[Misguided Ghost]

At the end of the day, Beyonce's music sound like something only Beyonce would do. If she wasn't talented she would have chosen some generic songs that sound like everything on the radio yet she's able to come up with incredible concepts like "Lemonade" or "Renaissance" and choose songs accordingly, later re-arranges them to suit her vocals, adding harmonies and all that. If she didn't have her vision and artistry none of her albums (especially last 3) would sound the way they do. 

[swissman]

No because you could put all those same writers in a room again and you still wouldn't come up with RENAISSANCE.

 

The fact is you always need a leader.

[bync]

it does NOT matter. people will never drag any other celebrity as much as they drag Beyoncé for this. and they do it because it's the only thing Beyoncé can't do better than their favorites, and that is a FACT

 

she can sing better, she can arrange better, she can dance better, she can perform better, she can direct better, she can command the stage better, she can serve a look better, she can do EVERYTHING else better than most of ATRL's faves, just not write a song

 

that's why it's the go-to drag

Edited February 15, 2023 by bync

[Ari29]

8 minutes ago, Aristide said:

Right but people are saying Beyoncé doesn't write the music at all or her input is minimal evidenced by the fact that she has 20+ other writers just for one song. Like how much help does a "legend" need, ya know?

 

Compare that with Harry's House where it's just the artist and one or two other songwriters. Much more authentic and impressive artistry 

So based on this logic you would agree Harry Styles (strictly talking music) is a better artist than Kanye? 

[Rhythm]

It shouldn't. She's been awarded numerous composition awards that her peers haven't to this day, and has several self-composed in her catalog, as well. Not that it matters much at all; thinking any casual music listener is twisting their ankles to run and check album credits when a record drops is absolutely boneheaded. 

 

Beyoncé just happens to be a brilliant curator, regardless of the amount of words she puts to a paper. She spearheads her own direction and has forged a musical identity that is authentically her own, and it's a facet of her artistry that's consistently proven -- both by the strength of her (latter) dynamic output and by testament of those that have actually worked closely with her (not anyone else trying to abet conspiratorial conjecture). Any listener is sensible enough to examine what they're hearing. No amount of "media manipulation" can make a record good.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Rhythm

[nathanspears]

There is nothing wrong with writing camps. I find it a bit ridiculous when simple songs require 10+ writers... but writing camps are more common than people know. It's just the marketing to make you think your faves are ~artists~

[Jjang]

1 minute ago, swissman said:

No because you could put all those same writers in a room again and you still wouldn't come up with RENAISSANCE.

 

The fact is you always need a leader.

This. She’s like the director/curator in everything she does. Movie directors get their fair share of credit, don’t they? 
 

And like others here said, she’s

very ambitious and if her ideas/direction comes at a cost of a bunch of credit samples then so be it. What matters is the final product. And it’s always excellent. 
 

She also credits everyone she references/works with so its also tired and lowkey racist (cause all ur white faves do it) to see all those “shes a thief/fraud” comments 

[on the line]

Yes, 100%

[AxelFox]

5 minutes ago, Misguided Ghost said:

At the end of the day, Beyonce's music sound like something only Beyonce would do. If she wasn't talented she would have chosen some generic songs that sound like everything on the radio yet she's able to come up with incredible concepts like "Lemonade" or "Renaissance" and choose songs accordingly, later re-arranges them to suit her vocals, adding harmonies and all that. If she didn't have her vision and artistry none of her albums (especially last 3) would sound the way they do. 

 

5 minutes ago, swissman said:

No because you could put all those same writers in a room again and you still wouldn't come up with RENAISSANCE.

 

The fact is you always need a leader.

Very well pointed, I don't know why this is very hard for people on this board to grasp. 

[Josh]

4 minutes ago, bync said:

it does NOT matter. people will never drag any other celebrity as much as they drag Beyoncé for this. and they do it because it's the only thing Beyoncé can't do better than their favorites, and that is a FACT

 

she can sing better, she can arrange better, she can dance better, she can perform better, she can direct better, she can command the stage better, she can serve a look better, she can do EVERYTHING else better than most of ATRL's faves, just not write a song

 

that's why it's the go-to drag

because other celebrities like Rihanna and Britney don't tell their audiences they wrote "Irreplaceable" for the audiences when it was Ne-Yo who wrote the song the demo and it's final sounded the same