official Civics Rules

[ATRL Moderation Team]

ATRL Civics Rules & Guidelines

 

The ATRL Civics section is dedicated to empowering discussion around politics, current events, and elections across the world. While we welcome spirited debate for this section, respectful boundaries must be maintained. To that end, see the below rules regarding proper conduct in the ATRL Civics forum.

 

Conduct

• Members are free to criticize politicians and/or political ideologies.
• Debates should be constructive. Personal attacks, trolling, and/or baiting other members is not acceptable.
• While we welcome participation of those across the political spectrum, citing political to evade the established Zero Tolerance Policy (ZTP) meant to combat racism, sexism, xenophobia, and other forms of bigotry is not legitimate. In short, the ZTP will be enforced. 
• While discussion can naturally become heated, we hope that you practice ignoring members if you feel you are getting too worked up. Remember, you do not need to respond to everyone. Personal disagreement is natural and crossing the line on ATRL is not worth it.
• Targeted reporting of members whose political ideology is different from your own is highly discouraged and can be met with a WP.

 

Political Base Threads

First, it is important to establish that members will engage in the Civics section for countless reasons. Grossly speaking, we believe most members will want to participate in Civics to (i) casually chat about current events in the (political) world and (ii) debate on politics, current events, and the geopolitical climate at large

 

Casual conversations and heavy debate on subjects relevant to the Civics section is welcome and legitimate. However, we want to ensure that this section is safe and welcome for members who want to participate in both of these modes. To this end, we distinguish between political base threads meant more for casual conversations and political base threads where debate is more welcome.

 

• Political Base Threads for Casual Conversation. These threads are not meant to allow for intense back-and-forth discussion. Reserve debates for the other Politics Base Threads.
  • General & Casual Politics Thread
• Political Base Threads for Debates and thorough Discourse. 
  • US Politics Thread
  • Social Democratic & Democratic Socialists Thread

 

Sometimes it is natural that debate may spark up in threads meant for for casual conversation. This is likely to be an awkward tightrope that we will actively work on in time. Please be flexible with us as we all get the hang of it. 

 

FAQ

Can members say "F**k [insert politician here]"?

Yes. Outside of the Civics section, similar comments would be met with a WP. However, politicians and pop stars are not comparable and discussion surrounding them should be viewed differently. 

 

Can members express bad feelings for a politician?

Generally yes. Politicians are not pop stars. Political leaders are people that can have immensely harmful impacts on our lives. People are allowed to express negative feelings towards said politicians. Wishing death upon them though is beyond the pale and will be warned accordingly.
 

[Jotham]

The casual politics thread sounds like a great idea. When is it planned to open?

[Polgg48]

 

OT: good idea if everyone agrees...

 

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Polgg48

[Pendulum]

Quote

• Targeted reporting of members whose political ideology is different from your own is highly discouraged and can be met with a WP.

So by that logic, people can be downright Nazis without any punishment, while the users who are against this ideology would be the ones catching the WPs?

 

[redacted]

Edited August 27, 2022 by Pendulum

[Communion]

Our king @Espresso deserves this. 

 

Especially for being a good sport for so long.

Him keeping the news updated and consistent while 3 arguments occur in US Politics:

The girl in the back in a chokehold are @Kassi and I debating whether Nancy Pelosi once wore a blue or pink suit on the 3rd Sunday of a breezy June of 1997. 

[Mrnoniee]

I remember getting a wp from an American Moderator just cause I sided w/ China and was defending it
I was warned for "defending misinformation" or something similar.

if ya'll really wish to make such thread make sure yalls biases don't rule out

Imagine me/some other atrlers criticizing some political figure and a mod happens to like them.

[Espresso]

6 hours ago, Jotham said:

The casual politics thread sounds like a great idea. When is it planned to open?

Unless I was told otherwise by a mod during its first inception the last few weeks and I missed it (which is totally possible), until they receive enough feedback here, ideally before fall begins for the midterms. If they don't, they'll cross that bridge when they reach it.

 

Again just to emphasize as I did in that thread's OP this was all their idea and reached out to me. 

 

3 hours ago, Communion said:

Our king @Espresso deserves this. 

 

Especially for being a good sport for so long.

Him keeping the news updated and consistent while 3 arguments occur in US Politics:

The girl in the back in a chokehold are @Kassi and I debating whether Nancy Pelosi once wore a blue or pink suit on the 3rd Sunday of a breezy June of 1997. 

 

 

Until things are resolved on the feedback end, I'm going back to posting in the U.S. Politics thread.

 

There's way too much that's occurred even since this has been posted I've missed  

[BOOMBAYAH]

5 hours ago, Pendulum said:

So by that logic, people can be downright Nazis without any punishment, while the users who are against this ideology would be the ones catching the WPs?

 

[redacted]

No, because being a Nazi would go against the bigotry rule…

[khalyan]

7 hours ago, Pendulum said:

So by that logic, people can be downright Nazis without any punishment, while the users who are against this ideology would be the ones catching the WPs?

 

[redacted]

Those members would be warned under this rule,
 

While we welcome participation of those across the political spectrum, citing political to evade the established Zero Tolerance Policy (ZTP) meant to combat racism, sexism, xenophobia, and other forms of bigotry is not legitimate. In short, the ZTP will be enforced. 

We have had several issues in the past with members being targeted and their posts being reported by one poster even if those posts don’t break any rules.  And it’s happened to members on both sides of the political spectrum.

[Bloo]

@Jotham @Espresso I meant to open it last night. The Casuals Thread is now unlocked so please chat in there to break it in. 

[shelven]

I haven't frequented the civics section/political threads in a while, but the casual thread is a great idea  I remember during the 2020 election season, it felt like there wasn't really a space to neutrally discussing polling updates and the state of key races without those updates inevitably turning into arguments about candidate quality and policy minutia. Glad to see there's finally a space for that type of discussion now!

[GreatestLoveofAll]

casual politics sounds like it set up for the inevitable crash and burn but it wont hurt to try

[Espresso]

7 hours ago, GreatestLoveofAll said:

casual politics sounds like it set up for the inevitable crash and burn but it wont hurt to try

Very well could - It doesn't bother me one way or the other what happens to the thread now or then since that'll all be on the mods  

 

19 hours ago, Bloo said:

@Jotham @Espresso I meant to open it last night. The Casuals Thread is now unlocked so please chat in there to break it in. 

Oop. Done.  

[DonSiblon]

Dead threads 

[Espresso]

16 hours ago, DonSiblon said:

Dead threads 

The amount of 503s certainly doesn't help  

[Communion]

On 8/29/2022 at 7:12 PM, DonSiblon said:

Dead threads 

Too many pinned threads makes the 1st page look static tbh

[Espresso]

If the goal was to better the flow here by putting news posts and casual conversations in the other thread to not distract as much from debates in the original US politics thread, the 503s have rendered all that effort irrelevant  

 

It was suggested to me in the Ukraine thread to do explanation bulletin of the tweets instead with just URL's per post with my own text but so much context is lost that way. One tweet max per post helps but only barely. 

 

Being able to post about any politics outside the U.S. in the General and Casual Politics thread makes sense and maybe it's because we're not as close yet to the midterms but the effort feels so overwhelmingly like a stranded boat with me on it in the middle of the ocean with no sonar of comms shouting to no one that until there's further traffic to that thread I'm going back to posting back on the U.S. Politics thread.

 

It's been communicated that there's little the mods can do barring a complete host change over which is off the table regarding the 503s, which again, bring one more layer of chaos to an already trying experience here. Exhibit A is the 20 minutes it takes me to edit the OP for Ukraine each time with the maps, which does have an insanely large OP in terms of data upload but I haven't quite settled into adjusting my expectations around here (especially after contributing a while back - maybe there'll be another fund drive!)

 

Welp, off to delete those posts from the general thread and transfer them but first I have to catch up in the U.S. Politics thread. 

 

So far the signs aren't good. A well meaning idea I'm not writing off completely (that wasn't mine but sounded promising) until after the midterms. 

 

Deep sigh. 

[khalyan]

On 8/30/2022 at 8:11 PM, Communion said:

Too many pinned threads makes the 1st page look static tbh

What do you suggest we keep pinned and what do you think we can remove?  

 

19 hours ago, Espresso said:

If the goal was to better the flow here by putting news posts and casual conversations in the other thread to not distract as much from debates in the original US politics thread, the 503s have rendered all that effort irrelevant  

 

It was suggested to me in the Ukraine thread to do explanation bulletin of the tweets instead with just URL's per post with my own text but so much context is lost that way. One tweet max per post helps but only barely. 

 

Being able to post about any politics outside the U.S. in the General and Casual Politics thread makes sense and maybe it's because we're not as close yet to the midterms but the effort feels so overwhelmingly like a stranded boat with me on it in the middle of the ocean with no sonar of comms shouting to no one that until there's further traffic to that thread I'm going back to posting back on the U.S. Politics thread.

 

It's been communicated that there's little the mods can do barring a complete host change over which is off the table regarding the 503s, which again, bring one more layer of chaos to an already trying experience here. Exhibit A is the 20 minutes it takes me to edit the OP for Ukraine each time with the maps, which does have an insanely large OP in terms of data upload but I haven't quite settled into adjusting my expectations around here (especially after contributing a while back - maybe there'll be another fund drive!)

 

Welp, off to delete those posts from the general thread and transfer them but first I have to catch up in the U.S. Politics thread. 

 

So far the signs aren't good. A well meaning idea I'm not writing off completely (that wasn't mine but sounded promising) until after the midterms. 

 

Deep sigh. 

Not understanding the logic here.  Why did you delete the posts and transfer them to the other thread if your concern was 503s because now there are just more 503s in the debate thread?  

[Espresso]

15 minutes ago, khalyan said:

Not understanding the logic here.  Why did you delete the posts and transfer them to the other thread if your concern was 503s because now there are just more 503s in the debate thread?  

Fair questions and implications so let me amend what I've said somewhat. 

 

The 503s are going to happen regardless and anywhere so let me put that to the side. 

 

For now, it's about current forum traffic of logged in members and also what escaped me initially which is for the Casual thread to attract casual discussion of global politics as opposed to there being a division between two threads on U.S. politics alone. 

 

I mean, it makes sense but I didn't realize it initially and didn't think to ask. 

 

Unless you had an issue I was just going to continue until this section and/or threads gets presumably more traffic as we get closer to the midterms and then I'll reassess - not to discourage one way or another and I'm still fine with having the OP. Just let me know if you had other concerns on this. 

[Steve Jobs]

Honestly I wouldn’t mind if this and the lounge got merged again. Both sections feel underutilized since they got separated. 

[khalyan]

1 hour ago, Espresso said:

Fair questions and implications so let me amend what I've said somewhat. 

 

The 503s are going to happen regardless and anywhere so let me put that to the side. 

 

For now, it's about current forum traffic of logged in members and also what escaped me initially which is for the Casual thread to attract casual discussion of global politics as opposed to there being a division between two threads on U.S. politics alone. 

 

I mean, it makes sense but I didn't realize it initially and didn't think to ask. 

 

Unless you had an issue I was just going to continue until this section and/or threads gets presumably more traffic as we get closer to the midterms and then I'll reassess - not to discourage one way or another and I'm still fine with having the OP. Just let me know if you had other concerns on this. 

To be honest, I was a little disheartened to see you give up on the casual thread within less than a week.  We've had constant complaints of members that the debates thread was too much for them and they wished to see the same news but without the debates and we thought creating the casual thread was a great idea for these members.  I know it's going to take some time and consistency in order to build up the membership that would regularly use that thread, just like how we have a regular group of members in the debates thread.  

 

I guess my question is, if you are still interested in posting content to the casual thread?  

[Communion]

2 hours ago, khalyan said:

What do you suggest we keep pinned and what do you think we can remove?  

I don't personally think anything in particular deserves tp stay or go since you can make the case that everything pinned currently is relevant and timely. That's why really I didn't mention any specific threads. Just that a lot of the pinning may make the top of the forum seem stagnant. 

 

Maybe the only one I can think of is this thread. You'd want the rules easily seen but maybe unpinning it and having the announcement bar up top? But then if people claim they didn't see certain new rules cause it wasn't pinned.. 

[Bloo]

2 hours ago, Communion said:

I don't personally think anything in particular deserves tp stay or go since you can make the case that everything pinned currently is relevant and timely. That's why really I didn't mention any specific threads. Just that a lot of the pinning may make the top of the forum seem stagnant. 

 

Maybe the only one I can think of is this thread. You'd want the rules easily seen but maybe unpinning it and having the announcement bar up top? But then if people claim they didn't see certain new rules cause it wasn't pinned.. 

After some time, we're going to lock this and unpin this thread after a while and have feature the rules as a clickable pop-up like in other sections. It's open for discussion in case people have feedback for the rules as they are now.

[Espresso]

2 hours ago, khalyan said:

I guess my question is, if you are still interested in posting content to the casual thread?  

I know you don't mean to imply this, but a little bit of the problem I have with the premise of this question is that I should be responsible for driving traffic to a thread that should be receiving it organically. 

 

I'm not sure to be honest in terms of what I was expecting for engagement and creating a base of support for people to go there, which I guess is implied for the OP to an extent, and maybe we're putting too much on the midterms to provide that. 

 

I....bother to spend the time to look up the news to post to receive some sort of hope of engagement that's there to begin with I guess, not to hope that it might come - when it's just me that posting Twitter strings that end up practically shutting pages down with all blanks of 503s regardless of whether it's the US Politics thread or General thread it undoubtedly turns people off and away from either. I am interested in posting content but again my takeaway is what there'll be to show for it and when as opposed to the first 9 pages being almost entirely my tweets with no text to break it up and those that were hesitant to post in the other thread will feel discouraged to post regardless. 

 

On one end it's the endless debate and on the other end it's entire blank pages with no text break-up that may also turn-off those that want to post non-US news. 

 

I am absolutely still interested in posting content there but I feel for you also in not receiving more engagement from other members here as to why it isn't or may not. It's kind of a chicken v. egg argument. 

[khalyan]

5 hours ago, Espresso said:

I know you don't mean to imply this, but a little bit of the problem I have with the premise of this question is that I should be responsible for driving traffic to a thread that should be receiving it organically. 

 

I'm not sure to be honest in terms of what I was expecting for engagement and creating a base of support for people to go there, which I guess is implied for the OP to an extent, and maybe we're putting too much on the midterms to provide that. 

 

I....bother to spend the time to look up the news to post to receive some sort of hope of engagement that's there to begin with I guess, not to hope that it might come - when it's just me that posting Twitter strings that end up practically shutting pages down with all blanks of 503s regardless of whether it's the US Politics thread or General thread it undoubtedly turns people off and away from either. I am interested in posting content but again my takeaway is what there'll be to show for it and when as opposed to the first 9 pages being almost entirely my tweets with no text to break it up and those that were hesitant to post in the other thread will feel discouraged to post regardless. 

 

On one end it's the endless debate and on the other end it's entire blank pages with no text break-up that may also turn-off those that want to post non-US news. 

 

I am absolutely still interested in posting content there but I feel for you also in not receiving more engagement from other members here as to why it isn't or may not. It's kind of a chicken v. egg argument. 

You should obviously not be the sole factor for driving traffic to that thread, but my impression this entire time was that you would/wanted to consistently post in the casual thread just like you have done in the debate thread and now and the traffic would organically grow from there.  So now I'm just a little confused as to where to go from here.