celeb news Bette Midler turns into Jk Rowling, post transphobic tweet

[Communion]

19 minutes ago, Bey Admired said:

No, I’m fine with that. 

 

So we can all agree on “cis women, trans men and all others who menstruate” then? 

I think it'll make your day to learn that such is already the language used by most people in conversational English! 

 

Writing in medical contexts is meant to balance brevity with accuracy, so medical language will likely still continue to likely use the fewest words possible. 

 

People who menstruate = 3 words

Cis women, trans men and all others who may menstruate = 10 words

 

Since we both are very reasonable, I know you'll agree it would be unserious to have the same expectations from medical texts as one would from an in-person conversation.

 

I think also you're 100% right that we should all compromise. And you know what? I think you'll be happy with the reality that, if a doctor saw your mom's medical record she was a cis woman who wanted to be called a woman, that's exactly what she would be called even if 1 out of 10 articles on a WomensHealth.com used "people who menstruate" alongside "women".  

Edited July 5, 2022 by Communion

[Bey Admired]

Just now, Communion said:

I think it'll make your day to learn that such is already the language used by most people in conversational English! 

 

Writing in medical contexts is meant to balance brevity with accuracy, so medical language will likely still continue to likely use the fewest words possible. 

 

People who menstruate = 3 words

Cis women, trans men and all others who may menstruate = 10 words

 

Since we both are very reasonable, I know you'll agree it would be unserious to have the same expectations from medical texts as one would from an in-person conversation.

 

I think also you're 100% right that we should all compromise. And you know what? I think you'll be happy with the reality that, if a doctor saw your mom's medical record she was a cis woman who wanted to be called a woman, that's exactly what she would be called.

I’m glad we could come to a reasonable compromise  

[Headlock]

Just now, Bey Admired said:

And there we have it  

 

 

...so you admit the logical conclusion to your bad faith argument is to include every asterisk possible within an identifier, which you also admit if ******* insane 

 

Again, you can't answer a question with a question. YOU brought up an issue with a medical identifier, and YOU have not provided solid evidence as to why. Instead, you brought up a completely asinine neo-identifier to try and have a gotcha moment, meanwhile in the same breath admitting you actually have never been affected by any of this at all.

 

So, once again, the conclusion to your posts is that you are simply a transphobe.

[Headlock]

3 minutes ago, Communion said:

I think it'll make your day to learn that such is already the language used by most people in conversational English! 

 

Writing in medical contexts is meant to balance brevity with accuracy, so medical language will likely still continue to likely use the fewest words possible. 

 

People who menstruate = 3 words

Cis women, trans men and all others who may menstruate = 10 words

 

Since we both are very reasonable, I know you'll agree it would be unserious to have the same expectations from medical texts as one would from an in-person conversation.

 

I think also you're 100% right that we should all compromise. And you know what? I think you'll be happy with the reality that, if a doctor saw your mom's medical record she was a cis woman who wanted to be called a woman, that's exactly what she would be called even if 1 out of 10 articles on a WomensHealth.com used "people who menstruate" alongside "women".  

I think they should have to type that identifier out manually in every medical chart or note they have to write when seeing 45 patients on a 12 hour shift when you are short staffed and also on call for other elective procedures 

[Illuminati]

I personally prefer menstruators, like Arianators Maybe the birthing people can be called [little] bornsters 

[Bey Admired]

1 minute ago, Headlock said:

...so you admit the logical conclusion to your bad faith argument is to include every asterisk possible within an identifier, which you also admit if ******* insane 

 

Again, you can't answer a question with a question. YOU brought up an issue with a medical identifier, and YOU have not provided solid evidence as to why. Instead, you brought up a completely asinine neo-identifier to try and have a gotcha moment, meanwhile in the same breath admitting you actually have never been affected by any of this at all.

 

So, once again, the conclusion to your posts is that you are simply a transphobe.

Okay, well I’m going to stop replying to you now so this is farewell. Have you got any other names to call me before I go? 

 

 

[Communion]

1 minute ago, Bey Admired said:

I’m glad we could come to a reasonable compromise  

All people who menstruate deserve to be referred to how they wished.

[Bey Admired]

2 minutes ago, Communion said:

All people who menstruate deserve to be referred to how they wished.

So in conclusion, Bette Midler is right. There is an attempt to erase the word woman. 

 

Farewell, y’all. 

[Headlock]

3 minutes ago, Bey Admired said:

Have you got any other names to call me before I go? 

 

1 minute ago, Bey Admired said:

So in conclusion, Bette Midler was right. There is an attempt to erase the word woman. 

Illiterate, I guess?

[CaptainMusic]

This is nothing like JK Rowling’s clear hate for trans women

 

Calling women those terms is offensive and ridiculous 

[Bey Admired]

Just now, Headlock said:

 

Illiterate, I guess?

I’ll add that to the extensive list of other names you have called me. 

[Bosque]

The fact that she completely randomly attacked language that is usually used by people on the far left (objectively speaking), and completely ignored the fact that it was Republicans who just ended the right to abortion And there are 17 pages on this forum full of left-center people fighting each other over irrelevant nomenclature, while all Republicans are peacefully sitting at a table, completely unified in their quest to end the legislative rights of women, gay people, and all minorities. This is why the left/center-left will never win any political fights. 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Dephira

[Brando]

47 minutes ago, Headlock said:

There are 350 million people in the US. Do you think it's more plausible that 300,000 trans men exist, or 1.5k 

I would have thought no. Transitioning is not a choice many people decide to make, plus it's expensive. Gay people were always a small minority and trans people were always a small minority within the queer community. Having looked through several different estimates, the average seems to be around 50 to 70k. Definitely not over a million like that user claimed that sparked this whole numbers debate. But even at a highest of your estimates it's still no more than 0.3% of the "birthing people" population and that's not a debate worth having and inclusions worth fighting for when it comes to abortion debate. The time spent infighting between liberals in this thread could have been spent on something more politically productive. 

[Communion]

6 minutes ago, Bey Admired said:

So in conclusion, Bette Midler is right. There is an attempt to erase the word woman. 

If you think the word "citrus" is used at fruit stands to erase the word "orange", maybe!

Edited July 5, 2022 by Communion

[Headlock]

1 minute ago, Brando said:

Transitioning is not a choice many people decide to make, plus it's expensive.

A trans person does not need to medically transition to be trans 

 

1 minute ago, Brando said:

Having looked through several different estimates, the average seems to be around 50 to 70k.

Yeah, you're a lost cause sis 

[Headlock]

2 minutes ago, Dephira said:

And there are 17 pages on this forum full of left-center people fighting each other

I'll give you a hint, some of these people aren't left-center 

[CaptainMusic]

5 minutes ago, Brando said:

I would have thought no. Transitioning is not a choice many people decide to make, plus it's expensive. Gay people were always a small minority and trans people were always a small minority within the queer community. Having looked through several different estimates, the average seems to be around 50 to 70k. Definitely not over a million like that user claimed that sparked this whole numbers debate. But even at a highest of your estimates it's still no more than 0.3% of the "birthing people" population and that's not a debate worth having and inclusions worth fighting for when it comes to abortion debate. The time spent infighting between liberals in this thread could have been spent on something more politically productive. 

I don’t think most trans men even get pregnant anyway so it’s less than that  

[Communion]

35 minutes ago, Headlock said:

I think they should have to type that identifier out manually in every medical chart or note they have to write when seeing 45 patients on a 12 hour shift when you are short staffed and also on call for other elective procedures 

It is interesting how doctors started using "men who have sex with men"/"MSM" because of discomfort with how stigmatizing "homosexual" was to many people but then many of the same LGB people don't get that "people who menstruate" is being used in place of using "female" as a medical term when applied to trans men and not "woman" since that isn't a medical term. 

 

If using inclusive language is bad, maybe doctors should start bringing back old terms too, no matter if it makes the person with same sex attraction uncomfortable. 

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Communion

[Trent W]

15 minutes ago, Dephira said:

The fact that she completely randomly attacked language that is usually used by people on the far left (objectively speaking), and completely ignored the fact that it was Republicans who just ended the right to abortion And there are 17 pages on this forum full of left-center people fighting each other over irrelevant nomenclature, while all Republicans are peacefully sitting at a table, completely unified in their quest to end the legislative rights of women, gay people, and all minorities. This is why the left/center-left will never win any political fights. 

I agree, but honestly have you read the last few pages?

 

This thread went into a mental asylum mode

 

I will just keep it cute an say again, I would punch anyone who called a woman close to me a “menstruator” or a “birthing person”

 

A woman is a lot more than their reproductive organs, it’s so dehumanizing, humiliating and unnecessary. Idgaf if it’s only for medical terms is completely dehumanizing to call a woman that.

 

Anyway I’ve never even heard these terms irl, it sounds like something a lunatic on twitter made up.

 

I hope it doesn’t become a thing cause there will be a lot more division in real life.

[Brando]

7 minutes ago, CaptainMusic said:

I don’t think most trans men even get pregnant anyway so it’s less than that  

not to mention that number groups people who fully transitioned and thus can't get pregnant and those who only identify as such

truth is, no one knows the actual number, but atrl gender police would fight you to death for it

[Rogue_Redux]

18 pages  

[Communion]

7 minutes ago, Brando said:

truth is, no one knows the actual number

Why is this serving the GOP trying to sabotage the census during redistricting time 

[Headlock]

9 minutes ago, Communion said:

It is interesting how doctors started using "men who have sex with men" because of discomfort with how medicalized "homosexual" was to many people but then many of the same LGB peope don't get that "people who menstruste" is being used in place of the word "female" as a medical term and not "woman" since that isn't a medical term. 

 

If using inclusive language is bad, maybe doctors should start bringing back old terms too, no matter if it makes the person with same sex attraction uncomfortable. 

 

It's almost like the goal of a physician or other medical professional is to serve their patients to the best of their ability, and using inclusive language aids in that objective because it allows them access to patient populations that require service but are often excluded due to prejudice, fear, or trepidation of their own due to past experiences with the (admittedly, sometimes awful) healthcare system 

 

Your MSM is a perfect example, honestly. The amount of research, data, and care that is able to be provided due to that term cannot be underscored. You would think as mainly cis gay men on this website that one would be thankful such advances in terminology are made when new data shows its value to both the patient and the provider.

[Headlock]

10 minutes ago, Trent W said:

I will just keep it cute an say again, I would punch anyone who called a woman close to me a “menstruator” or a “birthing person”

 

 

Anyway I’ve never even heard these terms irl,

So you acknowledge this isn't actually a real issue you would ever encounter, and is just right-wing reactionary nonsense 

[Headlock]

23 minutes ago, CaptainMusic said:

I don’t think most trans men even get pregnant anyway so it’s less than that  

That's not what "birthing people" means