celeb news Bette Midler turns into Jk Rowling, post transphobic tweet

[Headlock]

44 minutes ago, 305 said:

I'm not referring to anyone who is capable of being pregnant as a "birthing person" or "person with a ******."

Transwomen and cis women can still be referred to as women without having to blur the terms

Trans women have nothing to do with this omfg, you're just proving you're buying into right-wing propaganda 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Headlock

[Specter]

jfjklsdfk;

 

I've only read the first 4-5 pages and I hate this site. Some of y'all should go the LGBTQ+ 4chan equivalent, and the more I see the types of "opinions" on this site the more I think this is the gay 4chan.

 

There is /some/ truth to the notion that being referred to as a function of biology sounds de-humanizing; but the point is that it's medical language that is supposed to be inclusive, and, since it is medical/institutional language, it is supposed to be clinical and detached. What this means that it is NOT meant as an "attack" on anyone personally, much less all cis women

 

But again, there is no utility to these conversations online, because any genuine concern one may have about language that is both inclusive AND practical (you will find many transmen are not very comfortable being called menstruators either!) is ultimately lost amidst a sea of "WOMEN ARE VANISHING? THE WORD WOMAN CAN'T BE SAID ANYMORE?" when a view like this is reactionary and frankly...stupid. The average Joe isn't going to refer to every - or any  - feminine presenting individual as a menstruator. This site stans 95% women, none of whom will be referred to as menstruators or birthing people by stans. This little "erasing vocabulary" point is just right-wing nonsense draped up in what seems like a feminist platitude, which is why it can be so potent.

 

Ultimately views like this are so harmful, and decidedly transphobic - she's literally Othering transmen in the first line of the tweet, which is inherently transphobic no matter how you dress it up as uWu I'm just saying cis and trans people are not the same uWu pwease don't be mad :(. I also have to laugh personally at people feigning ~horror at medicalized language when otherwise used to it in the medical contexts; y'all know why the clinics ask "Have you recently been sexually active? If yes, how many partners?" vs "DID YOU SLEEP WITH DOZENS OF PEOPLE, SL U T?"

Edited July 5, 2022 by Phantom

[ConceptD]

1 hour ago, Headlock said:

The way you almost get it 

It's almost as if these are all right-wing talking points hijacking medical terminology used amongst physicians and reproductive rights advocates and pinning it on trans people who don't give a ****. Furthermore, trans women have nothing to do with this, it's trans men who fall into the reproductive category.

 

Women's right's are indeed being erased, by cis men 

I agree with you I think. What’s happened at the moment and the discourse surrounding trans people has absolutely nothing to do with trans people themselves and is being carried on and furthered by cis men that want them to die and green haired neo liberals that want you to respect the fact that they identify as the ghost of a German Shepard from 18th century Romania. The fact that these people have both chosen trans people to latch onto is disgusting because the shame that trans people had to endure for years (trying on clothes secretly, stealing high heels so they didn’t have to buy them, sneakily trying out makeup etc) was making serious progress back around 2015 but all of that is being undone because of certain groups taking these medical terminologies and forcing them  down peoples throats and making it legit dangerous to be a trans woman on the street because people are feeling hostile to them due to the fact they’re being told they have to convince themselves that trans women can menstruate/get pregnant and if you question that then you’re transphobic so most people just go all in and become quasi terfs or outright hateful.
 

As much as it would be lovely to live in a world where we could have these things, that don’t really harm anybody, people just don’t want that and it’s making a very nuclear environment for trans people to exist in through absolutely no fault of the trans community itself who just want to live normal lives. 

[EnterTheAttic]

She didn't say anything wrong, honestly 

[Mr. Blue_Shirt]

36 minutes ago, Headlock said:

Trans women have nothing to do with this omfg, you're just proving you're buying into right-wing propaganda 

These people forget that trans men exist is sending me 

 

[LoveInStereo]

Majority of us agrees with her so I’m over the notion that the entire world is expected to radically reorganize itself around a very tiny statistical minority of people. Sane ppl don’t have that perspective. I saw a clinic intake form that asked if you have a “front hole”. That **** is degrading to the vast majority of people & only exists to feign making an effort to help a tiny handful of ppl. Vast majority of ppl getting angry at TERFs aren’t even LGBTQ. Whole thing has gotten so psycho. Who is actually being helped by the SJW lunacy online? There’s no material change for the better. It’s a net negative

Edited July 5, 2022 by LoveInStereo

[Headlock]

10 minutes ago, ConceptD said:

 green haired neo liberals that want you to respect the fact that they identify as the ghost of a German Shepard from 18th century Romania.  

Aaaaaand you're back to right-wing reactionary talking points 

 

11 minutes ago, ConceptD said:

certain groups taking these medical terminologies and forcing them  down peoples throats and making it legit dangerous to be a trans woman on the street  

Yeah, right-wingers are the ones doing this 

A few random people on twitter doesn't negate that the machine behind this anti-trans push are conservative cis men and TERFs who bought into the trans panic. "Green haired neoliberals" are not the issue.

 

13 minutes ago, ConceptD said:

people just don’t want that and it’s making a very nuclear environment for trans people to exist in through absolutely no fault of the trans community itself who just want to live normal lives. 

The majority of people actually just don't give a ****, and the small minority who do are, you guessed it: right-wing reactionaries, or the people who unfortunately bought into their propaganda.

[Specter]

1 minute ago, LoveInStereo said:

Majority of us agrees with her so

"A lot of people believe it, so it must be right" 

 

 

2 minutes ago, LoveInStereo said:

Vast majority of ppl getting angry at TERFs aren’t even LGBTQ.

Absolutely, the anti-TERF consciousness is led by heterosexual frat men 

 

[Azealia Banks]

16 hours ago, Communion said:

This is all just right-wing propaganda. No one is erasing the term "women" and she, like any other poorly illiterate boomer, is buying into elite media anti-trans narratives like the op-ed recently published in the NYT. 

agree

[Price of Fame]

Some of y’all are gonna be so shook when you start getting put in camps in a few years

[May]

what a shame that our world came down to arguing over this .. we should be swinging in the trees with monkeys and singing kumbayah by the camp fire together .. 

[Headlock]

28 minutes ago, Phantom said:

jfjklsdfk;

 

I've only read the first 4-5 pages and I hate this site. Some of y'all should go the LGBTQ+ 4chan equivalent, and the more I see the types of "opinions" on this site the more I think this is the gay 4chan.

 

There is /some/ truth to the notion that being referred to as a function of biology sounds de-humanizing; but the point is that it's medical language that is supposed to be inclusive, and, since it is medical/institutional language, it is supposed to be clinical and detached. What this means that it is NOT meant as an "attack" on anyone personally, much less all cis women

 

But again, there is no utility to these conversations online, because any genuine concern one may have about language that is both inclusive AND practical (you will find many transmen are not very comfortable being called menstruators either!) is ultimately lost amidst a sea of "WOMEN ARE VANISHING? THE WORD WOMAN CAN'T BE SAID ANYMORE?" when a view like this is reactionary and frankly...stupid. The average Joe isn't going to refer to every - or any  - feminine presenting individual as a menstruator. This site stans 95% women, none of whom will be referred to as menstruators or birthing people by stans. This little "erasing vocabulary" point is just right-wing nonsense draped up in what seems like a feminist platitude, which is why it can be so potent.

 

Ultimately views like this are so harmful, and decidedly transphobic - she's literally Othering transwomen in the first line of the tweet, which is inherently transphobic no matter how you dress it up as uWu I'm just saying cis women and trans women are not the same uWu pwease don't be mad :(. I also have to laugh personally at people feigning ~horror at medicalized language when otherwise used to it in the medical contexts; y'all know why the clinics ask "Have you recently been sexually active? If yes, how many partners?" vs "DID YOU SLEEP WITH DOZENS OF PEOPLE, SL U T?"

[FreeXone]

3 minutes ago, Price of Fame said:

Some of y’all are gonna be so shook when you start getting put in camps in a few years

Girl lol i dont think it will be all that

[Headlock]

9 minutes ago, LoveInStereo said:

I saw a clinic intake form that asked if you have a “front hole”. 

Post it.

[loliza]

Well idk what is she talking about but to refer a non pregnant ciswoman as birthing person is offensive af

[Mystic Warrior]

4 minutes ago, FreeXone said:

Girl lol i dont think it will be all that

maybe not camps, but we could def be facing prison for existing so don't get too comfy if the world keeps going the way it is.

 

OT: i really hope bette clarifies she's not a transphobe. this would ruin hocus pocus for me lol

[Sparrow's Bride]

22 minutes ago, LoveInStereo said:

Majority of us agrees with her so I’m over the notion that the entire world is expected to radically reorganize itself around a very tiny statistical minority of people. Sane ppl don’t have that perspective. I saw a clinic intake form that asked if you have a “front hole”. That **** is degrading to the vast majority of people & only exists to feign making an effort to help a tiny handful of ppl. Vast majority of ppl getting angry at TERFs aren’t even LGBTQ. Whole thing has gotten so psycho. Who is actually being helped by the SJW lunacy online? There’s no material change for the better. It’s a net negative

Exactly. 

 

No self respecting woman is ever going to refer to herself as any of these terms just to please a small group of people.

[Badger]

The issue here is that Bette seems to imply that people who want to use inclusive language are the same people who want to ban abortions.  These two perspectives couldn’t be further apart. 

[Vertigo Stick]

Macy Grey, J.K. Rowling, Bette Midler, and others use their platforms irresponsibly when disguising their transphobia as feminism. No one is eradicating woman as an identity. This is an irrational fear constructed by right-wingers who consistently believe in conspiracy theories not based in reality. At the same time, this topic harnesses peoples transphobia as that is already rampant in society so people are running away with a conspiracy that affirms their transphobia. 

Also, it's terrifying that some people actually believe PC-culture was responsible for Trump's presidency because people believed in right-wing propaganda long before Trump. Trump took advantage of existing beliefs. He provided a safe-space for those terrified of being replaced during a time when marginalized people became somewhat more visible. The "woke mob" isn't turning people into Nazi sympathizers.
 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Vertigo Stick

[Beyonnaise]

I think a lot of the conflict over terms like "pregnant people" has to do not with out-and-proud TERFs but rather women, usually older, who are accepting of trans people but see changes to nomenclature as losing the rights they fought for. I think it's easy for us younger LGBT folk to not get hung up on more inclusive language being adopted, as we grew up on social media in a time when so much new terminology has been adopted and gone out of fashion within a few years. But for those women whose mothers were treated as property and were the first in their lineage to get a job and have bodily autonomy (well, until last week), taking "woman" out of even medical terminology feels to them like erasure (despite the goal of inclusivity in terminology being a just cause).

 

It just makes me wish there was an easier way to cut through the culture war divide to find a workable solution. The right-wing is exceptionally good at identifying these wedge issues and using them to divide and convert people to their side (like convincing the white working class in the Rust Belt that their factory job wasn't lost because of automation and greedy corporations but immigrants stealing it from them).

[FreeXone]

32 minutes ago, Mystic Warrior said:

maybe not camps, but we could def be facing prison for existing so don't get too comfy if the world keeps going the way it is.

 

OT: i really hope bette clarifies she's not a transphobe. this would ruin hocus pocus for me lol

Once the wheel starts turning you cant stop progress. Theres always backlash before the acceptance. Same happened with gay rights was a lot of push back for years but then everyone got tired of fighting it. 

 

This pushback was coming. We had bery liberal govt for 8 years with obama. The pushback was brewing. 

[Luckitty]

do Americans actually say "birthing people"? 
 

it's honestly funny how republicans are planning and organizing while democrats are busy fighting with each other about woke terms like "latinx" and "birthing people"  that's why republicans are gonna win 2024

[Vertigo Stick]

37 minutes ago, FreeXone said:

Girl lol i dont think it will be all that

Why not? It's already happening. 

According to Prison Policy, Black LGBQT+ people are overrepresented in juvenile centers.

 

From Prison Policy: 
 

A 2015 study shows that 20% of all youth in the juvenile justice system identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, questioning, gender nonconforming, or transgender, even though they compose only 5 to 7% of the total U.S. youth population. (Troublingly, the portion that identify as LGBTQ and/or gender nonconforming is even higher for girls in the juvenile justice system, at 40%.) This high percentage of justice-involved LGBTQ youth may be driven by their even higher rates of homelessness.

 

A 2014 survey of human service providers serving homeless youth, for instance, reported that 31% of the LGBTQ youth they served identified as African-American or Black, despite Black youth making up only 14% of the general youth population in 2014. 


These alarming statistics remind us that LGBTQ youth are at a higher risk of both homelessness and incarceration, and the many harms accompanying these situations. This means that if we are to put less youth behind bars, we must address the specific needs of LGBTQ youth who often end up homeless because of family conflict.

 

 

[Brando]

4 hours ago, Communion said:

This is big MAGA "everything I don't like is fake news!" energy, especially when the source is Pew. 

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/

 

Also I'm not sure about.your weird tangents in the thread about the estimates about gay men versus lesbians when most figures show that there are more women who experience attraction to women than there are men who experience to men (which kind of shows why pollsters poll how they do and not your weird arbitrary decisions of who should be counted as trans).

literally your own link shows 0.6% of adults identifying as trans. and even if we split it 50/50, that's 0.3% of just adults (not entire population) identifying as trans men. The percentage drops even lower against the entire population. And let's not forget those are just polls. The same polls that gave Hillary 90% chance of winning the election. 

[Gwendolyn]

I agree, I'm all for inclusivity but removing terms that relate to issues that largely affect women is annoying and dishonest.