celeb news Bette Midler turns into Jk Rowling, post transphobic tweet

[Headlock]

1 minute ago, Bey Admired said:

I can’t believe she’s getting dragged for this tweet  That is very worrying. 

Oh jesus not the JKR apologist 

[Morissette]

1 minute ago, Bey Admired said:

I can’t believe she’s getting dragged for this tweet  That is very worrying. 

Right? The witchhunts of social media are so ridiculous. And why is this thread still open with such a misleading title?

[Bey Admired]

1 minute ago, Headlock said:

Oh jesus not the JKR apologist 

Please leave me alone. I did not bring up JKR. 

[Headlock]

1 hour ago, Beyonnaise said:

, taking "woman" out of even medical terminology feels to them like erasure (despite the goal of inclusivity in terminology being a just cause).

 

This has been proven multiple times in this thread to not be happening.

[Headlock]

6 minutes ago, Bey Admired said:

Please leave me alone. I did not bring up JKR. 

Your past comments inform everyone of where you stand on this, TERF 

[khalyan]

8 minutes ago, Bey Admired said:

I just hope no on ever calls my mum a “menstruator” or a “birthing person” or anything like that in front of me as opposed to the brilliant woman that she is. I find it extremely disrespectful and misogynistic. 

Just a question, but what makes those terms offensive to you?  

[Bey Admired]

1 minute ago, khalyan said:

Just a question, but what makes those terms offensive to you?  

Because she’s a woman and identifies as such. 

[Communion]

28 minutes ago, Brando said:

That's 0.3% of just adults (l

0.3% of adult men in the US would be around 456k, not 1.5k

 

Why are you doing this 

[khalyan]

Just now, Bey Admired said:

Because she’s a woman and identifies as such. 

That doesn’t really answer my question though.

 

I am a cis-man and I identify as such.  If someone referenced me as a “person who doesn’t ovulate” it wouldn’t bother me because that’s also true.  
 

And your mother’s preferences are super important.  In a conversation with her, I’d never use those terms especially if she told me she preferred the term “woman”.  But if she’s reading a left leaning political article with the “birthing person” term in it, would that affect her/you?  

[FreeXone]

42 minutes ago, Vertigo Stick said:

Why not? It's already happening. 

According to Prison Policy, Black LGBQT+ people are overrepresented in juvenile centers.

 

From Prison Policy: 
 

 

 

 

 

Sadly many resort to crime as survival skills due to being homeless. But they arent being locked up because they are gay. There defenitely needs to be more help for homeless youth though. 

[Cruel Summer]

This thread and her comments are disappointing. There is a clear place for this type of language in medical, political, and academic spaces.

 

18 hours ago, Communion said:

This is all just right-wing propaganda. No one is erasing the term "women" and she, like any other poorly illiterate boomer, is buying into elite media anti-trans narratives like the op-ed recently published in the NYT. 

The entire tea and all that really needs to be said here. 

[Bey Admired]

1 minute ago, khalyan said:

That doesn’t really answer my question though.

 

I am a cis-man and I identify as such.  If someone referenced me as a “person who doesn’t ovulate” it wouldn’t bother me because that’s also true.  
 

And your mother’s preferences are super important.  In a conversation with her, I’d never use those terms especially if she told me she preferred the term “woman”.  But if she’s reading a left leaning political article with the “birthing person” term in it, would that affect her/you?  

Khalyan, as much as I’d like to have an honest educational and productive discussion on this matter with you here, I’m afraid that’s not feasible. The last time I expressed my opinions on this matter in what I thought was a productive and healthy debate, we know what happened (I don’t think I’m actually allowed to mention what happened here, am I?). 

 

In short, I think one of the main problems with your argument is that men are not being called “a person who doesn’t ovulate” or “a person with a *****”, are they? Ostensibly, it’s only the term "woman" that is being erased, and that’s partly why many view it as misogynistic. 

 

 

 

[Rican]

18 hours ago, Sazare said:

It’s a bit of a double-edged sword, because abortion rights is very much a women’s rights issue, even if pregnancy isn’t limited to women. I don’t think there’s anything wrong, per se, with saying “birthing people” or “people with uteruses” (wordiness aside) but I mean this is an issue that primarily affects women.

You want your mother or sister to be refer as such? What are the alternative  names for men?

Edited July 5, 2022 by Rican

[Rican]

2 minutes ago, Bey Admired said:

Khalyan, as much as I’d like to have an honest educational and productive discussion on this matter with you here, I’m afraid that’s not feasible. The last time I expressed my opinions on this matter in what I thought was a productive and healthy debate, we know what happened (I don’t think I’m actually allowed to mention what happened here, am I?). 

 

In short, I think one of the main problems with your argument is that men are not being called “a person who doesn’t ovulate” or “a person with a *****”, are they? Ostensibly, it’s only the term "woman" that is being erased, and that’s partly why many view it as misogynistic. 

 

 

 

Trans woman = woman, if you label them anything else that it’s an outrage.

 

Cisgender woman = “birthing people” or “people with uterus” however labeling cisgender woman as woman becomes debatable.

 

 

 

[khalyan]

2 minutes ago, Bey Admired said:

Khalyan, as much as I’d like to have an honest educational and productive discussion on this matter with you here, I’m afraid that’s not feasible. The last time I expressed my opinions on this matter in what I thought was a productive and healthy debate, we know what happened (I don’t think I’m actually allowed to mention what happened here, am I?). 

 

In short, I think one of the main problems with your argument is that men are not being called “a person who doesn’t ovulate” or “a person with a *****”, are they? Ostensibly, it’s only the term "woman" that is being erased, and that’s partly why many view it as misogynistic. 

 

 

 

I understand, no worries. 
 

The only thing I’ll add is that the terms like “birthing people” are very rarely used and I would like to see both woman and other terms used alongside each other if needed. 

[slw84]

31 minutes ago, Headlock said:

Your past comments inform everyone of where you stand on this, TERF 

 

 

Never thought this thread would be so divisive.

[ConceptD]

2 hours ago, Headlock said:

Aaaaaand you're back to right-wing reactionary talking points 

 

Yeah, right-wingers are the ones doing this 

A few random people on twitter doesn't negate that the machine behind this anti-trans push are conservative cis men and TERFs who bought into the trans panic. "Green haired neoliberals" are not the issue.

 

The majority of people actually just don't give a ****, and the small minority who do are, you guessed it: right-wing reactionaries, or the people who unfortunately bought into their propaganda.

Obviously there’s no point in having a discussion with you when you hit every comment with ‘right wing propaganda.  This is why the left (which, I feel I have to clarify to you, I am aligned with) is in such shambles, because rather than getting together and mobilising the way conservatives do, they tear each other down for pointless **** that only sets us back further. 

[Specter]

48 minutes ago, Bey Admired said:

I can’t believe she’s getting dragged for this tweet  That is very worrying. 
 

I just hope no on ever calls my mum a “menstruator”, a “birthing person”, “a person with a ******” or anything like that in front of me as opposed to the brilliant woman that she is. I find it extremely disrespectful and misogynistic. 

Please list for the entire class moments where strangers have described your mom as a brilliant woman in matters pertaining to uh...medical contexts?

 

The unreal fear that people will just go up to women in the streets and yell "MENSTRUATOR" at them 

 

The fictional existence in a world where the ways in which women are addressed casually/randomly on the street (usually a flurry of unwanted attention, catcalling, harassment and so on) have to do with the might of their intellect or integrity of character  Yes, it's the fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the population disrespecting women by being inclusive to trans individuals, and not uh....society as a whole

Edited July 5, 2022 by Phantom

[Communion]

14 minutes ago, Bey Admired said:

I think one of the main problems with your argument is that men are not being called “a person who doesn’t ovulate” or “a person with a *****”, are they? 

 

13 minutes ago, Rican said:

You want your mother or sister to be refer as such? What are the alternative  names for men?

What is the common term used for someone who produces semen and donates their ejaculate to those desiring to have a baby? 

[Bey Admired]

3 minutes ago, Phantom said:

Please list for the entire class moments where strangers have described your mom as a brilliant woman in matters pertaining to uh...medical contexts?

 

The unreal fear that people will just go up to women in the streets and yell "MENSTRUATOR" at them 

 

The fictional existence in a world where the ways in which women are addressed casually/randomly on the street (usually a flurry of unwanted attention, catcalling, harassment and so on) have to do with the might of their intellect or integrity of character  Yes, it's the fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the population disrespecting women by being inclusive to trans individuals, and not uh....society as a whole

To be very clear, I have a problem with my mother being labelled anything other than a woman or female in a medical context, too. 

[Bey Admired]

6 minutes ago, ConceptD said:

Obviously there’s no point in having a discussion with you when you hit every comment with ‘right wing propaganda.  This is why the left (which, I feel I have to clarify to you, I am aligned with) is in such shambles, because rather than getting together and mobilising the way conservatives do, they tear each other down for pointless **** that only sets us back further. 

I think there is a huge divide on the left with regards to this and that divide is only going to get bigger, unfortunately. There’s no room for compromise. 

 

it’s the name calling on both sides that I find the most disappointing. TERF, fascist, SJW, radical leftist. All terms used to diminish the opposing argument as opposed to actually engaging with it. 

 

Like Khalyan said, using the inclusive phrase “women and people who menstruate” for example would be a nice compromise, but so many extremists on either side want it either/or. 

 

 

[Headlock]

13 minutes ago, ConceptD said:

Obviously there’s no point in having a discussion with you when you hit every comment with ‘right wing propaganda.  This is why the left (which, I feel I have to clarify to you, I am aligned with) is in such shambles, because rather than getting together and mobilising the way conservatives do, they tear each other down for pointless **** that only sets us back further. 

You are literally trying to pin anti-trans discourse on "green haired neoliberals that want you to respect the fact that they identify as the ghost of a German Shepard from 18th century Romania". Your exact words.

 

It's not my fault that you are utilizing right-wing reactionary talking points exactly how they want you to 

The enemy is and has always been conservative straight cis men. Green haired neoliberals are the boogeyman the right created to scare TERF-adjacent women and liberal leaning people into thinking the "left" has gone too far. The left doesn't use these terms outside of their intended purpose. Conservatives and TERFs, however, do.

 

So again, your argument comes inherently flawed if you approach this discussion with anyone else but conservatives as the bad guys.

[Headlock]

28 minutes ago, Rican said:

Trans woman = woman, if you label them anything else that it’s an outrage.

 

Cisgender woman = “birthing people” or “people with uterus” however labeling cisgender woman as woman becomes debatable.

 

 

 

The way y'all constantly give yourselves away, trans women literally have NOTHING to do with this discussion  

[Headlock]

17 minutes ago, Bey Admired said:

To be very clear, I have a problem with my mother being labelled anything other than a woman or female in a medical context, too. 

Are you a physician?

[Headlock]

25 minutes ago, slw84 said:

 

 

Never thought this thread would be so divisive.

It's divisive because their are many posters coming in with bad faith arguments who do not possess to vernacular to engage in this discussion and apparently don't desire the ability to acquire it either. Case in point is people constantly bringing up trans women when they literally have nothing to do with this discussion. It's almost as if there is an ulterior motive to their comments.