discussion Hillary Clinton suggests trans rights are distracting Dems from "important" issues

[If U Seek Amy]

I personally do not care for Hillary Clinton and do not care about the battle of Democrats vs Republicans and keeping score about who is doing more or less for what. As most of us know some on ATRL simply want to make both Democrats and Republicans look bad and try to force whatever their personal agenda is. We are looking at this specific statement by Hillary Clinton in general and discussing that as many get off topic or try to distract from the main point. 

In this case I don't believe Hillary is actually saying Trans rights are not important, they very much are. But when the better party of 2 sides (I really wish it wasn't this way) is facing a brutal midterms and even strongly potentially brutal 2024 that may lead to a large rise in authoritarian conspiracy theorists she is right. The primary concern right now needs to be winning back voters, properly fixing inflation and informing Americans why it takes time and giving details about the plan in a way that doesn't make them bored in 2 seconds with their short attention spans, and helping the economy overall return to normal. If this is done successfully that will win you voters more than anything else. She could say the same thing about specifically gay male rights as I am a gay man and I would agree with her. Worrying about that is a luxury. Right now I am reasonably generally safe and it is not illegal to be LGBT. It is absolutely a higher priority right now to make things more affordable again and stop crazies from taking over. I really don't care if you do or don't like Democrats or if they do nothing. I am not a big fan of them myself. But I would rather have a "do nothing" party that generally is sane and keeps us more generally stable than whatever tf Republicans want. After that the work for furthering equality can resume. That is a luxury no one can afford right now. And for the dooms dayers let's not pretend the US hasn't faced a recession or economic problems before and not come out of it. It sucks it really does, but it takes time and things will simmer economically

[Communion]

4 minutes ago, If U Seek Amy said:

The primary concern right now needs to be winning back voters

So what popular policies are Democrats championing in order to win the 2022 midterms? 

 

[Mobility Mary]

6 hours ago, Terrielle said:

Why is everyone turning against gays and trans people all of a sudden? What is going on 

Small, but loud group of people are constanly playing Oppression Olympics and coming up with new microidentities accompanied by 200 self-diagnosed disorders which makes us all look ridiculous and it's an opportunity that all bigots have been waiting for so they can voice their hatred towards us. Tho to be fair to Hillary, it seems like she kind of wanted to ignore that part of the question.

[Armani?]

The ppl in here agreeing

 

Like she wont say the same thing for gay ppl 

 

"Important issues" they ignore on the daily basis and dont fight for

 

As if they're incapable of doing multiple things at once 

[rihannabiggestfan]

12 minutes ago, Communion said:

So what popular policies are Democrats championing in order to win the 2022 midterms? 

 

 

crickets, of course

[Sergi91]

7 hours ago, BeenTheShit said:

This thread is a reach.  She's not saying it's not important or that she doesn't support, she's saying Democrats, thus minority groups, are on the verge of losing everything and need to win back control.  Then we can re-visit these issues and put legislative protections in place.

Well said 

[Protocol]

12 hours ago, Terrielle said:

Why is everyone turning against gays and trans people all of a sudden? What is going on 

To conservatives there is no distinction between gay and trans. They think all gays are trans and vice versa. We're all just "dirty queers". 

[rihannabiggestfan]

23 minutes ago, Protocol said:

To conservatives there is no distinction between gay and trans. They think all gays are trans and vice versa. We're all just "dirty queers". 

Omg true. "Should I call you Mister?" teas

 

 

[bleuwaffle]

very true

[bunnyeyes]

reminder to the anti trans atrlers that she's been exposed multiple times of allegedly expressed dislike of gay people on multiple occasions too 

 

+ low income trans people with "bottom" surgery are literally going to die in Florida now that the state has cut coverage to hrt which is NEEDED or you die after--I'd believe she was for actual issues that help win like student debt reform, inflation, and public health but she's not for that either so....

 

I'd maybe buy it if the dems were making actually making significant legislation re: trans lives.

Edited November 4 by bunnyeyes

[bunnyeyes]

9 hours ago, Bloo said:

I’m not sure how trans rights are a distraction for Democrats when they’re not really doing anything at the moment. This just sounds like the set up for trans people to be the excuse for the inevitable loss of the Democrats in the upcoming midterms. When they lose, they’ll say it was because of trans issues and will ignore the reality that they failed to meet the moment to pass anything that they promised (even including voting rights).

 

The truth is Democrats could win the midterms and the current assault on LGBTQ+ people will continue and the Democrats will do nothing to prevent it. The fact that they’re in power and this massive surge in anti-gay and anti-trans legislation across the country began is dismantles the idea that electing Democrats is enough to protect the LGBTQ+ community. The fact that many Democrats have said the quiet part out loud that our community’s plights are distractions is horrendous. Like, obviously Republicans are “worse”, but they’re getting their way regardless of the Democrats. 

 

[arceus]

She is not wrong, tho 

[rihannabiggestfan]

3 hours ago, IvyTower said:

reminder to the anti trans atrl twinks that she's been exposed multiple times of allegedly expressed dislike of gay people on multiple occasions too 

 

Tea

 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by rihannabiggestfan

[GotMyBlueprint]

19 hours ago, anti-***** said:

You can do both at the same time though

yet they never get anything accomplished 

 

they struggle to do anything and get anything done, so the whole "you can do/care more than one thing at a time" grandstanding does nobody any good in these types of situations.

[Harrier]

I'm reluctant to be too fair to Hillary, but here I don't think what she said was that bad. She doesn't indicate opposition to trans liberation, only that some of the fringe issues we talk about in this debate seem pretty minute compared to the existential threat of climate, wealth inequality, inflation etc as well as of course the impending fascist takeover in the US.

 

Don't leftists constantly say we need to focus on material issues? Seems logical to me.

 

Like maybe lets focus on convincing the public that climate change is urgent rather than these discussions about the minutia of gender & sex, what it means to be a woman, neopronouns, non-binary genders etc

 

She does fail to acknowledge that Republicans are just as, if not more responsible for elevating the trans debate to such disproportionate heights. The left just needs to stop endlessly taking the bait

[Bloo]

1 hour ago, Harrier said:

Like maybe lets focus on convincing the public that climate change is urgent rather than these discussions about the minutia of gender & sex, what it means to be a woman, neopronouns, non-binary genders etc

Quick. Name a single Democrat that is prioritizing this issue…

 

There isn’t one. Instead, we have Democratic leaders like Hakeem Jeffries (Nancy Pelosi’s heir apparent) say that Democrats should avoid speaking in favor of LGBTQ+ people at all despite the countless attacks our community is facing. 
 

I would be thrilled if Democrats were making steps to raise the minimum wage, lower gas prices (that are only as high as they are now from corporate price gouging), expand Medicare, pass voting rights. The problem is talk is cheap when you’re in power and then just talking about these issues is impressive to absolutely no one. Leftists are the only ones that correctly called them out for refusing to even do the bare minimum of calling out the traitors in the party for blocking Biden’s agenda. 
 

Now, notice how none of this has to do with trans people. Notice how Democrats have said next to nothing about trans people besides laying the verbal groundwork that trans issues will be the reason they lose in the midterms. The only politicians obsessively talking about trans people are Republicans. Democrats aren’t ardently defending the community, which they SHOULD. Leaving trans people to rot and be murdered is a horrible political mindset. Democrats are only peddling this so they have an easy explanation and more of a justification to move further to the right in 2024. 

[Living To Tell]

Democrats will be like "We need to be more transphobic to win the midterms" and then in the postmortem analysis will be like "We need to be more transphobic in response to our party imploding into dust nationwide and our brand being radioactive for the next decade".

[rihannabiggestfan]

26 minutes ago, Living To Tell said:

Democrats will be like "We need to be more transphobic to win the midterms" and then in the postmortem analysis will be like "We need to be more transphobic in response to our party imploding into dust nationwide and our brand being radioactive for the next decade".

Democrats after a conservative Dem like Hillary lost in 2016:

 

(And they do this on EVERY issue lol, from trans rights, to police, to economic issues such as Medicare for All, etc)

[Marianah Adkins]

Hilary actually made sense IF the Dems are actually doing and pushing for progressive econ policies. In that case then yes prioritize issues that majority of American people actually care about

BUT considering the Dems have conceded everything to the Repubs despite being in power, I find it disgusting that they will just use the trans issue as a scapegoat for their incoming midterm loss

[Harrier]

3 hours ago, Bloo said:

Quick. Name a single Democrat that is prioritizing this issue…

 

There isn’t one. Instead, we have Democratic leaders like Hakeem Jeffries (Nancy Pelosi’s heir apparent) say that Democrats should avoid speaking in favor of LGBTQ+ people at all despite the countless attacks our community is facing. 
 

I would be thrilled if Democrats were making steps to raise the minimum wage, lower gas prices (that are only as high as they are now from corporate price gouging), expand Medicare, pass voting rights. The problem is talk is cheap when you’re in power and then just talking about these issues is impressive to absolutely no one. Leftists are the only ones that correctly called them out for refusing to even do the bare minimum of calling out the traitors in the party for blocking Biden’s agenda. 
 

Now, notice how none of this has to do with trans people. Notice how Democrats have said next to nothing about trans people besides laying the verbal groundwork that trans issues will be the reason they lose in the midterms. The only politicians obsessively talking about trans people are Republicans. Democrats aren’t ardently defending the community, which they SHOULD. Leaving trans people to rot and be murdered is a horrible political mindset. Democrats are only peddling this so they have an easy explanation and more of a justification to move further to the right in 2024. 

I have nothing to say in response - you are absolutely right.

I think what I said applies to the online left, but not to elected democrats. I should be careful equating the two

[ClashAndBurn]

41 minutes ago, Harrier said:

I have nothing to say in response - you are absolutely right.

I think what I said applies to the online left, but not to elected democrats. I should be careful equating the two

At the end of the day, Biden has approved more drilling permits than Trump, and we'll be a record-setting production by the end of this year. Biden is being tarred for his green, anti-fossil fuel rhetoric leading to higher gas prices, supposedly, but the reality is we've never had a more pro-fossil fuel president (aka: anti-environment) than Biden.

 

Economic improvements were dropped immediately as soon as Joe Manchin said they were inflationary and would overheat the economy. Now the blame for inflation is directed at the American Rescue Plan providing relief in the form of means-tested crumbs to working poor people instead of the MANY trillions of dollars that the Federal Reserve injected into the stock market to prevent a Great Depression-level crash. Most of the money that was printed was corporate bailout cash. Stimmy checks were what was bad though, according to neoliberal Dems and Republicans. 

 

The outrage over what defines womanhood has entirely come from the right. Matt Walsh literally put out his What Is A Woman? documentary to demonize trans-people. The fact of the matter is, there is no good answer to that question that satisfies everyone. If you say that a woman is anything other than a person who was born with a ******, the reactionary Right will get angry and try to make you look like a fool that doesn't understand English. If you don't affirm that transgender women are also women, then that alienates people who advocate for trans people, who are the most marginalized community in the country, if not the entire world. Most answers in the middle run the risk of pissing off everyone. "Throwing trans people under the bus" and pretending like they aren't people who are deserving of dignity and respect, which is what Hillary is advocating for here, would encourage you to take the public position that women are those who were born with vaginas and that transgendered women don't qualify as either women or men.

6 hours ago, Harrier said:

She does fail to acknowledge that Republicans are just as, if not more responsible for elevating the trans debate to such disproportionate heights. The left just needs to stop endlessly taking the bait

Republicans are advocating for killing transpeople and making it illegal to be dressed in drag in public. Christopher Rufo (the Critical Race Theory guy) is pushing for drag queens to be called "trans strippers" to evoke more furious, possibly violent reactions. Anti-gay legislation is being passed easily in red states with little pushback. An anti-trans bill was signed into law by a Democratic governor. Is the left really supposed to pretend like this isn't happening?

[rihannabiggestfan]

1 hour ago, Marianah Adkins said:

Hilary actually made sense IF the Dems are actually doing and pushing for progressive econ policies. In that case then yes prioritize issues that majority of American people actually care about

BUT considering the Dems have conceded everything to the Repubs despite being in power, I find it disgusting that they will just use the trans issue as a scapegoat for their incoming midterm loss

Right, like ... if economic Republicans like Hillary don't support or want to prioritize trans people (aka conservative on economic AND social issues), then they should literally just come out as Republican

Edited June 20, 2022 by rihannabiggestfan

[bunnyeyes]

15 hours ago, rihannabiggestfan said:

Tea

 

 

 

The worst part is there are reports of her holding these views privately as late as 2016 

[ArtForFreedom]

On 6/19/2022 at 1:27 PM, Jotham said:

Exactly. The thread title is so misleading.

Not surprising in the least. It's like a broken record but this is why progressives don't get anywhere 

[Chimichanga]

Democrats don't have the option of not being distracted by trans issues. The medicalization of children, the participation of teachers in helping their students find their "true self", the denial of sex, and the end of women sports are so obviously absurd and unpopular that Republicans will keep bringing them up whenever they have the chance, and effectively come out looking as the reasonable party.