discussion Russian Sanctions Backfire: NATO Countries Hurt More By Inflation As Result

[ClashAndBurn]

2 minutes ago, Brando said:

They have not failed anything. Russia is badly hurt and it will keep suffering due to lack of access to crucial resources and components and general isolation. The longer it goes the higher the risk that Russia will crumble and fall. The only reason Russia is doing "fine" at the moment is the rising energy prices. That won't last forever and the EU is getting itself off Russian energy dependence slowly but surely. Would you prefer if the west didn't do anything? Like what's the alternative. 

 

 

Do you think energy prices are going to just... go back down? While Russian oil sanctions are in place? And while Saudi Arabia is perfectly content to tell Joe Biden to suck it after he declared (toothlessly) that he was going to make MBS an international pariah?

 

The American public doesn't care about Ukraine one bit. And as prices continue to rise, the support that is there will continue to wane except from Twitter liberals with Ukraine flag emojis in their usernames. The alternative is that the Republicans take power in November on the rhetoric of curbing inflation (which Biden is explicitly doing nothing about and is looking weak as a result), cut back on aid to Ukraine (as revenge for their part in Trump's first impeachment in 2020), and begin the process of walking back sanctions because they're frankly not working as intended.

[A Bomb]

1 hour ago, Brando said:

The inflation was long coming as a fallout from covid free money printing and supply chain disruptions. 

Why are countries that gave even more money not facing higher inflation?

 

no offense, you sound kinda ignorant parroting nonsense like that!

[ClashAndBurn]

1 minute ago, Rainy Devil said:

Here in latin america is the far left and the communist the ones supporting Russia tho. 

 

I don't see what Russia is doing something that needs to be analized from a right or left wing kind of thing.

 

Is just about power and control. They don't care if that comes from the right or the left.

The analysis can be boiled down to the fact that Russia is an adversary of America, and by extension NATO. The Latin American left-wing have zero love for the US, and honestly with all the coups they've pushed in their backyard... it's not hard to see why.

 

The global far right doesn't hate America so much as it resents the center-right "pro-freedom and democracy" (most Democrats and moderate Republicans) faction of its politics and would prefer the white nationalist, Christian fundamentalist (far-right Republican) faction to succeed.

[Aethereal]

1 hour ago, Khal said:

Agenda posters are so irritating. 

Every two weeks it's the same thing. Russia is strong sanctions have no effect blah blah blah. Why do they need to repeat it so often?

I can assure you Russia is crumbling. 

[ClashAndBurn]

1 minute ago, Aristotle said:

I can assure you Russia is crumbling.

The only thing that's actually crumbling is Joe Biden's approval rating as his sanctions exacerbate the effects of inflation on the American public, who are going to be flocking to the polls to vote his party out of power. But sure.

[Aethereal]

Just now, ClashAndBurn said:

The only thing that's actually crumbling is Joe Biden's approval rating as his sanctions exacerbate the effects of inflation on the American public, who are going to be flocking to the polls to vote his party out of power. But sure.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/russias-economic-slump-will-wipe-out-15-years-gains-iif-2022-06-08/

[Archetype]

@OP "NATO countries hurt more by inflation as a result".  Did we not think sanctions would hurt and contribute to the already growing inflation?  Of course it would do this, especially when most of the world is experiencing massive inflation.

 

Yes, we will suffer for these sanctions, yes, ordinary people.  It's necessary, the consequences for not doing so are significantly worse.  It is the worst luck that this is happening at the same time as countries try to recover from the pandemic and are already suffering through record inflation.

[Thickorita]

The discussion of the ethics of sanctions on Russia is pointless when the EU's plan to combat the gas crisis is to partner with countries like.. Israel.

 

 

 

[Katy V.!]

That's what the US and Europe deserve after purposely depending on tyrants

 

They've been running to the Saudis, Iran and Venezuela so it doesn't look like they've learned the lesson. 

[ClashAndBurn]

1 minute ago, Archetype said:

@OP "NATO countries hurt more by inflation as a result".  Did we not think sanctions would hurt and contribute to the already growing inflation?  Of course it would do this, especially when most of the world is experiencing massive inflation.

 

Yes, we will suffer for these sanctions, yes, ordinary people.  It's necessary, the consequences for not doing so are significantly worse.  It is the worst luck that this is happening at the same time as countries try to recover from the pandemic and are already suffering through record inflation.

Again. Tell that to the average American voter, who doesn't give a single **** about Ukraine, nor could they locate it on a map. They will laugh in your face for you telling them they have to make sacrifices for the sake a country on the other side of the world that they know nothing about.

 

The consequence of doing so will be the Democrats get completely wiped out of Congress in favor of a party that is led by an openly pro-Putin charlatan. Biden will be too busy defending himself from impeachment trials centered around his son's dealings with Burisma by this time next year.

[Bosque]

Making up incorrect statements to defend a war of aggression/genocide in order to own the centrists. 

[ClashAndBurn]

2 minutes ago, Dephira said:

Making up incorrect statements to defend a war of aggression/genocide in order to own the centrists. 

How is it incorrect to state that inflation is being more exacerbated by sanctions creating strain on global trade? It’s factually true, and Putin isn’t facing any actual consequences while his people are the ones suffering.

[ontherocks]

I honestly can't at the resident tankie in here saying to a Ukrainian "I'm not sure if you have the capacity to understand" which basically says "You're dumb as dirt, bless your heart" in a diplomatic way.

 

Still, most of you have not understood the intention behind this invasion which is to create a new world order (or you actively support this Idea). Russia will not stop in Ukraine until they get stopped. They have never considered themselves in a war with Ukraine, but in a war against NATO and western liberalism (Hello, gay rights)

 

Your unbelievable hate for Biden and the Democratic Party that is coming from the far left is quite astonishing.

 

You have never entered the thread about the war in Ukraine to express your disgust about Putin's actions, but always and really always blaming NATO. Writing paragraphs about it.

The fact some of you claim, that Americans don't care, but you yourself dismiss Ukraine's souverenity to make it's own decisions as an independent state baffles me, cause you don't care either. You don't care about the suffering Ukranian ppl go through day by day, watching their country being destroyed and their homes being turn to ashes. So miss me with your "most Americans don't care". Well, you aren't any better.

 

What do you want? You want NATO to crumble and fall apart? You want Europe to be a Russian interest zone ruled by the iron fist of Putin and Russian nationalists? You don't have to wait. Just move to Russia, live with the sanctions and try to safe your gay ass from getting killed, threatend or put in jail. Let us all know how it went down.

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by ontherocks

[Bosque]

19 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

How is it incorrect to state that inflation is being more exacerbated by sanctions creating strain on global trade? It’s factually true, and Putin isn’t facing any actual consequences while his people are the ones suffering.

Aside from the thread title which youve addressed I had a casual glance at the first page and saw two incorrect statements by you

 

1) oligarchs aren’t being hit by sanctions, which is untrue (you could argue that more should be done to hit them specifically)

2) NATO leaders are losing support over this which is… blatantly untrue. War is almost always a positive for the current government poll numbers, and you chose to ignore that other NATO leaders are benefitting from their hard stance against Russia. Instead you focused on Biden who has… a unique set of issues in order to construct a weird pro-Russia narrative that crumbles at the first sign of closer inspection 
 

Overall, this whole thread was just another odd anti-biden tirade by you with a barely concealed smokescreen of “inflation” and “oil prices”

Edited June 15, 2022 by Dephira

[Bethenny Frankel]

2 hours ago, XAMJ said:

I would rather deal with inflation and higher gas prices than nuclear war, k thanks. 

This…

[UnusualBoy]

I think this is mostly effect from the pandemic, the restrictions were imposed just recently to have such a big effect and so fast.

[Antonini]

Very western centric pieces. We suffer too so this sucks. No mentioning of the suffering of the innocent people in Russia who did nothing wrong except be born Within arbitrary borders. Even the most “compassionate” people here show they don’t truly care about the people, just the few. :(

[Archetype]

42 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

Again. Tell that to the average American voter, who doesn't give a single **** about Ukraine, nor could they locate it on a map. They will laugh in your face for you telling them they have to make sacrifices for the sake a country on the other side of the world that they know nothing about.

 

The consequence of doing so will be the Democrats get completely wiped out of Congress in favor of a party that is led by an openly pro-Putin charlatan. Biden will be too busy defending himself from impeachment trials centered around his son's dealings with Burisma by this time next year.

Yes, do tell that to the avg American voter.  The consequences of a Russia-controlled Ukraine to Europe and the west in general would be far worse over the next few decades rather than needing to pay more for gas and goods right now.  It's also just the right thing to do.

 

You've highlighted how most Americans are stupid, out of touch, and Republicans are even more stupid and also evil.  Yes, they will try anything to get revenge on Democrats.  What was the alternative, not sanction Russia?  Say, "Bad boy, don't do that again!" and then continue doing business with them as if nothing happened, meanwhile Ukrainians are bombed out of their homes and their infrastructure crumbles, their history books replaced with Russian history and their entire identities re-written as Russian? 

 

There are more intelligent and clever strategists who most definitely thought about different scenarios on how to deal with the invasion and no one on this site has suggested better alternatives, but a select few do seem to love pinning this on Biden because it is the *easy* thing to do and fits within a narrative that I don't particularly disagree with.  Biden isn't a great president, but he was going to take the fall no matter what.

 

Do nothing and let Russia annex Ukraine? 

"It's Biden's fault, he is weak and scared to fight for #freedom(!!!).  I'm voting Dems out, I love guns."

Do something? 

"Biden is making inflation worse bc Ukraine, my gas is expensive and I can't afford my OF subscriptions anymore.  I'm voting Dems out."

Edited June 15, 2022 by Archetype

[If U Seek Amy]

To think NATO is suffering more from sanctions is a joke. Russia is a worldwide pariah who has lost access to a huge portion of the world economy hurting oligarchs, politicians, and citizens alike, innocent or not. They are struggling in a war against Ukraine which we all thought would be wrapped up long before now unless they resort to drastic measures. I don't care what keyboard warriors and article readers on ATRL think. Some people sound so stupid it is laughable. 

 

Yes, some of the US is struggling with prices and making ends meet right now. It sucks. But things will calm down just like they always do when we have had inflation/recession issues in the past. The fear mongering is sad. Boohoo we have to maybe work an extra job to make ends meet for a year or a few years. The Russian citizens now are dealing with a collapsed financial system blocked from much of the world, extreme shortages hoping to even survive daily, they have a derranged leader who will send them all to battle to die if he has to, and more. As for politically, Putin and Oligarchs are now in a very weakened state where a huge portion of the world will not deal with them at all. Yes, they will technically be fine in that they won't suffer like normal citizens, but they will suffer in the sense they have made themselves significantly weaker politically, which does hurt them drastically from accomplishing their goal of expansion and becoming a bigger political force worldwide. And from a global safety perspective, wtf should NATO have done? Let Russia take over more and more land until they expand to NATO's borders with even more power in their hands ready for nuclear war? Yes, let's not punish a country for conducting disgusting human rights violations for the sake of greed. That sounds like a smart idea. Maybe instead we should just resort to full on war instantly instead of weakening them first if we have to go there eventually. That is a great plan. And then NATO citizens will be so well off when they are being killed in mass!

[Communion]

20 minutes ago, ontherocks said:

What do you want?

Maybe he can sign those highly popular executive orders he ran on saying he would. That's probably be popular!

[Communion]

12 minutes ago, Archetype said:

You've highlighted how most Americans are stupid

Not a very effective marketing tactic to convince Americans it's okay that they can't pay their rent!

 

Come up with something! Qucik!

[Archetype]

4 minutes ago, Communion said:

Not a very effective marketing tactic to convince Americans it's okay that they can't pay their rent!

 

Come up with something! Qucik!

Nope, and good thing it's not our job to do so.  No one wins in any scenario.  

[Communion]

2 hours ago, Brishka said:

and the vast majority of Americans support Ukraine, according to recent polls

Well, actually...

 

 

From +13 to -6 is a bit of a swing, and those results are already a month old by now when the last month has already seen the subject of inflation and Biden's failure get even worse.

 

The way centrist tankies aka dronies have to lash out at leftists demanding Biden improve Americans' material realities because they know Biden hates the poor and won't be doing anything to make people's lives better, so the only solutions to keep the foreign aid churning is to shame and attack Americans as "stupid". 

 

Guess the world won't be burdened by flows of American tax dollars under Trump then! 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Communion

[Communion]

3 minutes ago, Archetype said:

Nope, and good thing it's not our job to do so.  

It actually is if you decide to scold working class Americans for not voting for Biden or Democrats!

 

You're lashing out cause you *need* Biden to win? Well sis I got some good news for you then:

https://joebiden.com/volunteer-for-joe-links/

 

You best be convincing those suburban centrists who hate LGBT people that Biden is worth it because you will not be shaming the Democratic base to make another meaningless vote after more years of broken promises. 

 

Knock them doors!

[Gov Hooka]

2 hours ago, ZIVERT said:

 

literally liberals are so dumb. Sanctions have historically only strengthened the governments of their intended targets... Instead you get more suffering from the working class of those nations which ruling class can use to their own advantage. It’s nice that leftists give a **** about Russian people who don’t have a say in what their ruling class wants and are suffering the consequences. Western liberals are absolutely despicable in their careless disregard of the lives of average ppl. The irony of this is now Western nations are experiencing effects because they sanctioned an economy too large that theyre too entangled with...