Communion Posted June 18, 2022 Posted June 18, 2022 9 hours ago, Harrier said: And this is where I disagree with leftism. If we designate people as either for or against working class people - as was done in China, in the Soviet Union to bloody results - we are denying their humanity and the complex psychological reality of their decision making. Sis, this feels unserious and that's before touching on mentioning China and the USSR, like as though America doesn't have one of the highest percentages of its population incarcerated, largely for crimes linked to poverty. You're actually debating @Bloo's ideas more than mine because I don't view corruption as dependent on intention. You're pushing back on Bloo's statement that many Dems are knowingly corrupt and it's like.. really? Do you honestly think no Democrat knowingly uses their position of power to enrich themselves In ways they know is unethical? Pelosi doesn't realize her stock purchases are unethical? Eric Adams didn't realize enriching his brother was bad? This is why such conversations about the rich themselves are unserious. Should anyone earnestly ponder over if Elon Musk has good intentions when laying off countless workers? Our conflict is that I think it's absurd to ask homeless NYCers to resolve their anger on if they think Eric Adams has bad or good intentions when sending cops to destroy their homes. Material analysis shows that the mere existence of homeless encampments while millions of empty apartments exist is class warfare. We already live in an authoritarian society if you're poor. So the idea of the government expropriating wealth or property is not authoritarian to me. Also.... not to be controversial, but I question why such is never applied to states outside of the West? Do most Chinese authorities not think they're simply working to better their society, given how far they've come? If Democrats are not evil, then how could the same voices claim parties like the CCP are? Or are we in that weird territory where people think the Enlightenment period means the Western world is the only place with logic, reason and freedom of intent, and the rest of the world is driven by barbarism? Let alone we're not even talking about things like expropriation without compensation. We're screaming over if going to the doctor or school should be free (things many Dems oppose). There's no need to clutch one's pearls over what steps are being proposed to improve America from how far behind corruption has left it. 10 hours ago, Harrier said: You say they want poor people to kill themselves by using their power to keep poor people poor - but do they? The point of the video of the vet saying he was going to kill himself was to show that intentions are irrelevant because this is the product of their actions. When they vote to not increase the minimum wage, it's irrelevant if they did so because they believe in junk economics and that they're saving us from inflation. They're still materially exasperating inequality that is going to destroy lives and kill. I know people think leftists had some cultish fervor for Bernie, but I think this shows that liberalism is more focused on personalities. Leftists' earnest thought of "drop someone the moment they stop being useful to the mission of ending inequality" shows just that. You're arguing that I find people "bad" or "evil", but I literally don't use that language. I just acknowledge when someone has run their use and whose politics are now not helpful. You're trying to warn people of dangerous leftists and "giving power from one group to another" yet history would show you that stopping revolutions requires appeasing the masses with concessions. You're quick to blame the American electorate while defending Democrats simply repeating the mistakes of history past.
Communion Posted June 18, 2022 Posted June 18, 2022 (edited) Also not to keep driving home the point but I feel like we've lowered the bar for elected officials. That, in the context of liberal representational identity politics where symbolic victories matter more than material ones out of defeatism, it's now only ever expected of elected officials to speak for or represent marginalized people. Nevermind that such is such a shockingly low hurdle so many fail to meet... it also shows how little is actually done materially when looking at the votes. Because that's the issue - I don't care if you say you care about a group or if you have good intentions: the power you hold is in your vote, so how are you using it? I can't go to my landlord and say I had intentions of paying my rent. I'd be evicted. I can't go to my employer and say I had intentions of doing my job. I'd be fired. Yet, for some reason, when elected officials continually fail to deliver the only material way that they can help the people they represent, we're asked to reflect on their humanity and goodness as people. I've posted it countlessly but it's ******* maddening how at odds support for a policy will be in a state or a city versus which Dems are supporting it. Yes, the structure of Congress skews it rightward, but that doesn't explain when blue-state senators where progressive policies enjoy 70%+ support come out against said policies. I think anyone who actually sits and looks at what votes politicians are making would become disillusioned: https://heystacks.com/doc/489/congressional-democrat-tracker-leftist-edition M4A is supported by a vast majority of Democratic voters but not even a third of Democratic members of the Senate? Huh? Progressive policies have become immensely popular amongst the American public and culture, and yet politics, where policy matters, has been a holdout. Why? And surely it's then easy to understand why people become frustrated and say voting doesn't matter when politicians' votes stop representing what the people want? Edited June 18, 2022 by Communion
Harrier Posted June 18, 2022 Posted June 18, 2022 Don't really want to argue with you @Communion, we're too different and won't be able to see eye to eye. For what it's worth I respect your fervour for working class people. The document you linked is really depressing. The fact that there are under 10 genuine progressives in congress, and that's with a fairly generous definition that includes mostly progressive people like Jayapal and Warren
rihannabiggestfan Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 Not Jayapal becoming comparable to WARren, what a disappointment
Mellark Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 20 hours ago, rihannabiggestfan said: We love that and I'm noticing Gina's % going up and up the more votes come in, not everyone can relate . Not my underdog queen MURDERING the COP Buscaino like that, she has 10 times more votes than him I voted for Gina, she aligns with my ideas more than Bass. But for the general, I really have no other choice because the alternative choice is terrible. Imma need Miss Gina to beat KDL but I am glad he's flopping and I don't get why the LA Times thinks the Latinx/Latino vote will go to him just because he's Latino. I am one myself, but as councilmember he's so performative and likes to blame Republicans to avoid accountability. I feel like my political shifts really changed a lot since the federal election and what the schooling system fails to realize and teach is that local politics and state politics affect you a lot more than just picking the president, which sucks and local and state politics have low voter turnout due to the lack of voting engagement but also there needs to be awareness. I am privileged to live in a city/county/state that gives people the opportunity to vote-by-mail or in-person voting or voting early and many other states neglect that opportunity due to poor leadership that affects their 'political agenda', in other words they are threatened of being voted out so they will find ways to suppress the rights to vote. Anyways, Miss Eunisses won her race in CD1. Bye Gil.
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted June 19, 2022 ATRL Moderator Posted June 19, 2022 25 minutes ago, slik said: Bill Maher not knowing the stock market crashed in 2020 is soooooo cringe and embarrassing. How do people still take him seriously?
ClashAndBurn Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, Bloo said: Bill Maher not knowing the stock market crashed in 2020 is soooooo cringe and embarrassing. How do people still take him seriously? A lot of people probably forgot that happened because the Fed intervened on Trump's behalf with trillions of injected funds to keep the stock market afloat before the crash even registered. Basically the media stopped reporting on it as soon as the DOW started magically going back up for... some reason
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted June 19, 2022 ATRL Moderator Posted June 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said: A lot of people probably forgot that happened because the Fed intervened on Trump's behalf with trillions of injected funds to keep the stock market afloat before the crash even registered. Basically the media stopped reporting on it as soon as the DOW started magically going back up for... some reason Every day people forgetting about it is fine. Political commentators on a mainstream platform getting paid millions to be an "expert" on politics forgetting about it is another thing altogether.
ClashAndBurn Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 1 minute ago, Bloo said: Every day people forgetting about it is fine. Political commentators on a mainstream platform getting paid millions to be an "expert" on politics forgetting about it is another thing altogether. He probably knew about it when it happened, but it was so insignificant in terms of... it didn't really have an effect on the real world (until inflation hit, not that people attribute the trillions of rescue money with that. It's always the scraps that were paid out to regular people that were bad. So there's not really any reason to remember it happened at all for most people. Especially the wealthy old fucks like Maher who would've personally benefitted from that market stimulus.
rihannabiggestfan Posted June 19, 2022 Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) Bill Maher is ridiculous, wbk Not the cameraperson panning over to Krystal at that exact moment, they KNEW - I'm convinced they're a progressive *i need a gif of that classic Krystal moment pls* we love a master of gif-making @Wyvern Edited June 19, 2022 by rihannabiggestfan
Communion Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 Oddly enough I think this latest radar from Briahna touches on some the conversations recently had in here. Even if you're not a fan of her, I recommend watching at least fro 4:00 onward. The study that policies that enjoy support from rich Americans were 3-4 more likely to be passed into law than policies with support from working class Americans is the thing I go back to over and over again in anger about. (I do think her talent is wasted on Rising where the editorial bias is at odds with her message, like the chyron on the left talking about wokeness despite her not mentioning that once in her point about faux-populism.)
Mean Trees Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 I can't stand Bill Maher. He isn't smart and he's blatantly transparent. He rode the anti-Trump wave and then switched to being anti-Woke. He's like Elon, riding hard for De Santis who quite frankly would be worse than Trump and has much more neo-con tendencies.
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted June 20, 2022 ATRL Moderator Posted June 20, 2022 36 minutes ago, Mean Trees said: I can't stand Bill Maher. He isn't smart and he's blatantly transparent. He rode the anti-Trump wave and then switched to being anti-Woke. He's like Elon, riding hard for De Santis who quite frankly would be worse than Trump and has much more neo-con tendencies. This 100%. What kills me are the Democrats that constantly fearmonger over Trump taking back the White House when the idea of DeSantis running for president and winning is immeasurably more terrifying for me. They constantly keep conflating the evil of the GOP being a Trump-exclusive issue when there's countless others in the GOP that are worse than him. Trump was a loud-mouthed idiot. Someone like DeSantis actually has the conviction to pull off the worst-case scenario we all are terrified of.
rihannabiggestfan Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 Yes, drag him, Bernie The people are on your side!
MotoPapi Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 55 billion to Ukraine in four months is ******* insane while I we can barely afford gas and groceries…
rihannabiggestfan Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 They made points ------ Maybe if they pretended to be Ukrainian, then they would have gotten accepted @ClashAndBurn
Mean Trees Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 5 minutes ago, Bloo said: This 100%. What kills me are the Democrats that constantly fearmonger over Trump taking back the White House when the idea of DeSantis running for president and winning is immeasurably more terrifying for me. They constantly keep conflating the evil of the GOP being a Trump-exclusive issue when there's countless others in the GOP that are worse than him. Trump was a loud-mouthed idiot. Someone like DeSantis actually has the conviction to pull off the worst-case scenario we all are terrified of. Exactly.
rihannabiggestfan Posted June 20, 2022 Posted June 20, 2022 Imagine if Democrats catered to and motivated their base the way Republicans do! (and it goes without saying that "nOt tRuMp!1" is not catering to and motivating )
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