base talk GRAMMY voter on TTPD/HMHAS: "different version of the same album they've always made"

[Kyoto]

15 minutes ago, Kristie Kuwa said:

Why lie? Everything I wanted won a Grammy, what was I made for won a Grammy, No Time To Die won a Grammy. None of them were on her debut. 

Those were songs not attached to her projects. 

 

dont smile at me has no grammy

happier than ever has no grammy

hit me hard and soft has no grammy

 

That's why Billie stans were so mad this time around. While Wildflower could be nominated next year, I doubt it will win anything.

[Kristie Kuwa]

41 minutes ago, Kyoto said:

Those were songs not attached to her projects. 

 

dont smile at me has no grammy

happier than ever has no grammy

hit me hard and soft has no grammy

 

That's why Billie stans were so mad this time around. While Wildflower could be nominated next year, I doubt it will win anything.

But why are Billie Fans mad at Beyonce when Billie lost all other Grammys as well which literally means she wasn't even the runner up. Let that sink in. Billie wasnt even second in the AOTY race, so keep it moving and be mad at the other categories where she obviously had bigger chances 

 

Also: Billie has already won 4 or 5 Grammys in the Top4 categories whereas this was only Beyonce second win in the general fields in the span of her almost 30 year old career.

Edited February 8 by Kristie Kuwa

[Mariah4life]

not a single lie detected

[qegqeg]

13 hours ago, Mostar said:

But I would say Album of the Year should be awarded to an album that pushes the enveloppe. When revisiting the year 2024, it should tell us something about that year.
HMHAS is a good or great album, but it is not a huge departure or Billie's most "in your face" artistic statement. In a less competitve year, she would have done much better, but 2024 was crazy competitve. I would argue that most albums nominated against her (Cowboy Carter, Brat, Rise and Fall, Short and Sweet) are either daring and innovating albums OR albums that signaled a pivot/major breakthrough/reinvention in an artist career. HMHAS was good, but it did not have a strong and compelling narrative to be awarded that night. And that's okay, it will remain a beloved album - whereas I am not sure if the love for Cowboy Carter will hold up years down the line in the mainstream.

Well said

[Jenni]

17 hours ago, Mostar said:

But I would say Album of the Year should be awarded to an album that pushes the enveloppe. When revisiting the year 2024, it should tell us something about that year.
HMHAS is a good or great album, but it is not a huge departure or Billie's most "in your face" artistic statement. In a less competitve year, she would have done much better, but 2024 was crazy competitve. I would argue that most albums nominated against her (Cowboy Carter, Brat, Rise and Fall, Short and Sweet) are either daring and innovating albums OR albums that signaled a pivot/major breakthrough/reinvention in an artist career. HMHAS was good, but it did not have a strong and compelling narrative to be awarded that night. And that's okay, it will remain a beloved album - whereas I am not sure if the love for Cowboy Carter will hold up years down the line in the mainstream.

I kinda agree with you and I wasn't really expecting Billie to win aoty because I knew that it was a very competitive year. But we know that Beyoncé didn't win because cc was an innovative album, she won because she had the better narrative (a black woman who was snubbed several times in this category) and because the category was full of pop albums that divided votes and this ended up favoring cc, the only country album nominated. Her victory was well deserved and i'm happy for her, but the grammys usually don't care about innovation, if this was the standard Beyoncé would've won with self titled, lemonade and renaissance. Also, while hmhas is not a super innovative album in Billie's discography, it sounds like a natural progression for her and it's very cohesive both lyrically and sonically and I'd say that it would be a much more deserving winner than rise and fall and short n sweet (even if chappell and sabrina had a bigger narrative than her).

Edited February 8 by Jenni

[Worm]

Am I the only one who sees the enormous, glaring issue of trying to compare the 'innovativeness' of an artist like Beyonce's output with an artist like Billie Eilish?

 

Billie Eilish writes and produces her own songs. Beyonce does not write and produce her own songs.

 

It is vastly easier to hop across genres and styles when you don't have to learn how to create the music in that style for yourself, working from the ground up. Of course the scale of 'innovation' between successive projects is going to be more muted with an artist like Billie. Of course Billie's projects are going to sound like they have more in common with each other than Beyonce's. They were all written by the same person. Do you know how many years it would take to master a completely new genre of music all on your own so that you can write, produce, reference within, innovate and push boundaries within that genre against people who have been making music in it their entire lives?

 

This isn't even shade against Beyonce, the way she collates songs and genres into albums takes a tremendous amount of talent. I'm just saying the two are simply not comparable. An equivalent would be asking something like 'is Beyonce a more innovative vocalist than if you took Freddie Mercury, Britney Spears, Kendrick Lamar and Nicki Minaj and smashed them together into an imaginary single artist who could sing in all four different vocal styles?'. It's meaningless.

 

Their skillsets are completely different. Both artists are innovative, but their innovations are going to look nothing alike. Trying to pit the diversity of their projects against each other is asinine. 

[Gaia]

On 2/7/2025 at 4:05 PM, OneAndOnly said:

Seeing Billie stans being more angry than the Beyhive ever was with Beyoncé's past AOTY snubs is CRAZY to me 

Because "Billie Stan's" in this case is the public. So it seems much more widespread because the entirety of GenZ feels like she was robbed.

 

But let's not downplay how nasty the Hive has been to people who have won over Beyoncé. That's revisionist 

Edited February 8 by Gaia

[trainsskyscrapers]

On 2/7/2025 at 5:51 PM, Mostar said:

whereas I am not sure if the love for Cowboy Carter will hold up years down the line in the mainstream.

LOL. When has that happened before? If anything, her albums have improved with age. People have come around to the "loudness", "funk-sampling", and "live instrumentation" of B'Day, the underrated ballads and mechanic soundscapes of I Am... Sasha Fierce, her "love-letter to R&B music" amidst EDM with 4, and her willingness to collaborate with actual producers and writers from the African diaspora for The Lion King: The Gift.

 

Do you honestly think Cowboy Carter will be any different? Especially an album with so many nuggets, intentional guests, minimal live performance, and zero visuals currently.  She also avoided references to technology or modern pop culture and went with timeless country/western phrases instead.

[QuanticXplosion]

Beyonce fans are so annoying.

...

[mathekr]

He spilled I fear

[ToraeGilt]

It's day 5. Beyoncé won. Let it go 

[Seeyuh]

On 2/7/2025 at 11:49 PM, BrokenMachine said:

Let me guess, he's asking female artists to serve 'somethint new', but he won't do the same for male artists. I'd even dare to say he voted for Chris Brown too, given how much The Grammys love him  

this is his 2nd grammy in 20 years. what are u talking about

[Drownxngshadows]

Well there's some merit to what he said. It's obvious for Taylor while for Billie, for an album that was my most anticipated last year it was pretty underwhelming and a let down from Happier than ever (her best album btw) 

[trainsskyscrapers]

18 hours ago, Worm said:

Am I the only one who sees the enormous, glaring issue of trying to compare the 'innovativeness' of an artist like Beyonce's output with an artist like Billie Eilish?

 

Billie Eilish writes and produces her own songs. Beyonce does not write and produce her own songs.

 

It is vastly easier to hop across genres and styles when you don't have to learn how to create the music in that style for yourself, working from the ground up. Of course the scale of 'innovation' between successive projects is going to be more muted with an artist like Billie. Of course Billie's projects are going to sound like they have more in common with each other than Beyonce's. They were all written by the same person. Do you know how many years it would take to master a completely new genre of music all on your own so that you can write, produce, reference within, innovate and push boundaries within that genre against people who have been making music in it their entire lives?

 

This isn't even shade against Beyonce, the way she collates songs and genres into albums takes a tremendous amount of talent. I'm just saying the two are simply not comparable. An equivalent would be asking something like 'is Beyonce a more innovative vocalist than if you took Freddie Mercury, Britney Spears, Kendrick Lamar and Nicki Minaj and smashed them together into an imaginary single artist who could sing in all four different vocal styles?'. It's meaningless.

 

Their skillsets are completely different. Both artists are innovative, but their innovations are going to look nothing alike. Trying to pit the diversity of their projects against each other is asinine. 

Here's the kicker: Hundreds of producers and songwriters are lined up right now in A&R DMs and email accounts requesting to work with Billie/FINNEAS and Taylor (presumably taking their writing and sound into different directions instantly), and they've refused. Part of this is they love the prestige that comes with being perceived as a "singular" source of music output. They perceive too much collaboration as lowering their autonomy (or "taking the easy route"), but here it allowed Beyonce to work with / sample an army of "name-checked" Grammy artists: Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder, Willie Nelson, Buffalo Springfield, Nile Rodgers, The Beach Boys, Gary Clark Jr. Nancy Sinatra, Arlo Parks, Chuck Berry, Rosetta Tharpe, Son House, Roy Hamilton, Patsy Cline, Jon Batiste, Rhiannon Giddens, Robert Randolph, Raphael Saadiq, Dolly Parton, Ryan Beatty, RAYE, CAM, Dixson, Miley Cyrus, Ryan Tedder, Post Malone... and the list goes on.

 

Un(fortunately) they could also not compete with Beyonce's narrative: a historic, trailblazing, never-been-done-before album. (The closest album to Cowboy Carter is Ray Charles' equally polarizing Modern Sounds in Country and Western Music (1962), which was all covers/Country standards instead of original music. To add to that, she brought country to her and not vice-versa. You cannot compete with a chameleon who has been in the game so long she can manipulate her vocal tone to fit any genre, and has an almost trademarked bag of vocal/phrasing tricks to make any song a Hot-100 charting Beyonce song.

[Harry_]

idt people's problem was HMHAS not winning AOTY, it;s the fact that it didn't win any of its nominations. you can't make something so good to lose every single thing. bird of a feather should've won ROTY

[shayne]

This is the best outcome I think. Taylor stays unbothered with her 4 AOTYs. There's nothing wrong to stick with your roots.

Edited February 10 by shayne

[Frozen99]

On 2/7/2025 at 6:57 AM, l3disko said:

This man should have his Grammy voter privileges revoked

 

 

 

 

not him being a legitimate hater

 

ot: there were literally threads comparing Poets songs to previous taylor's songs... but billie? the album is an evolution of her sound, lyrics, vocals... the category isn't the best album genre switching award and as much as i like CC and what it did for bey and the original country community, billie, for me, had the AOTY.. and going empty-handed on arguably her best album is just funny. if it were a perfect world bey for rennie (or ST and lemonade).

[Daddy]

Clearly a Beyhive member. 

 

I get the Taylor critiques but not Billie.

[Daniiel]

In Taylor's and Billie's defense, It's easier to switch your whole sound when you don't write and produce your own music. No shade, just tea, but when your career has been based on having writing/producing camps make your musical career for you, it's a walk in the park to just tell your label to find those people in another genre to add and take over the round table.
 

And just like that, you have a new record that sounds like nothing you've ever made before. 

[Daniiel]

In Taylor's and Billie's defense, It's easier to switch your whole sound when you don't write and produce your own music. No shade, just tea, but when your career has been based on having writing/producing camps make your musical career for you, it's a walk in the park to just tell your label to find those people in another genre to add and take over the round table.
 

And just like that, you have a new record that sounds like nothing you've ever made before. 

[Daniiel]

Edited February 10 by Daniiel
Threepeat post omg

[ChooseyLover]

On 2/8/2025 at 10:45 PM, Worm said:

Billie Eilish writes and produces her own songs. Beyonce does not write and produce her own songs.

Beyoncé does co-write and co-produce. Her process being way more collaborative doesn't make it worse. You could argue some of these so called "self-made" artists should also get their songs written and produced by someone else considering their output, especially Taylor Swift. There are many factors that can make an artist amazing; Billie and Taylor stans diminishing Bey's 5 octave range is wild to me, especially when this is far more impressive than Billie or Taylor's songwriting will ever be.

Edited February 10 by ChooseyLover

[Glam]

I'm okay with Billie not winning AOTY, but not even one Grammy? Doesn't seem fair.

 

Taylor on the other hand losing every nomination this year is fair.

[Worm]

4 hours ago, ChooseyLover said:

Beyoncé does co-write and co-produce. Her process being way more collaborative doesn't make it worse. You could argue some of these so called "self-made" artists should also get their songs written and produced by someone else considering their output, especially Taylor Swift. There are many factors that can make an artist amazing; Billie and Taylor stans diminishing Bey's 5 octave range is wild to me, especially when this is far more impressive than Billie or Taylor's songwriting will ever be.

I agree completely that Beyonce's process isn't worse, and that she isn't any less talented just because her talents lean towards other elements of music than purely the writing and production of her songs from scratch. Music as a whole would be far less interesting if there weren't artists like her who have the freedom to genre hop and completely change who they work with from project to project, just as I think music as a whole would be less interesting without artists like Billie who write and produce all their own music and can craft a musical identity and distinctive style or sound palette that runs through all their projects.

I was just trying to make the point that it's an unfair comparison to say Beyonce's latest album is more different from her last album than Billie's, and thus more innovative, given the ways they both make their music. But I clearly didn't communicate that point as well as I should have, so sorry for that  

[SlimyGhoul]

and he's correct.