base talk Has Taylor Swift reached legend status?

[Vermillion]

1 hour ago, Chartman said:

So you go on the streets and ask people all around the world if Paul McCartney from the Beatles who is alive is a legend. I bet 98% of all answers would be YES he is a legend. 

Paul's at the level of Lennon (who I mentioned) by default

[Buffy]

3 hours ago, ericcartman said:

However, aside from tenure and success/impact, an artist usually reaches legend status following a break or even some years of flopping before a comeback. 

 

Taylor has neither flopped/cameback nor took a break. 

She took a 3 year break after 1989 and nearly got cancelled by the whole Snapgate/snake debacle + OTH claiming her success was all due to Kanye. That was a big smear campaign. Not every celebrity comes back victorious from that but she did with a complete image overhaul with Reputation and an ever growing fan base. The serpent became her mascot. It made her more powerful. And then she released a flop like ME!, yet still managed to survive that. In fact, Lover has done more than just survive. It has become one of her most universally acclaimed albums. The Eras tour elevated a weak album into one of the most replayed and beloved albums. She's had multiple glow ups in her career due to her ingenious marketing, luck of the timing (pandemic) that ushered in new eras (Folklore), and problematic moments (the whole Masters/Catalog) that turned over in her favor.

 

All this to say, Taylor has had many legendary moments in themselves. Her entire career and achievements make her a legend.

Edited 3 hours ago by Buffy

[Shimenawa]

Only the commercial success is legendary. The rest not so much...

[wastedpotential]

19 minutes ago, Trent W said:

[Chorus]
All that time you were throwin' punches, I was buildin' somethin'
And I couldn't wait to show you it was real
Screamed, "**** you, Aimee" to the night sky as the blood was gushin'
But I can't forget the way you made me heal
Everyone knows that my mother is a saintly woman
But she used to say she wished that you were dead
I pushed each boulder up the hill
Your words are still just ringin' in my head, ringin' in my head

 

 

I'm sorry but I can't put the Anthology in the same level than Folklore or evermore with a song that contains that MESS

 

And yes it is immature to be 35 years old and have songs written like that, same with You're so high school 

 

I also said that some parts of TTPD were great I could agree some like The Albatross and The Prophecy could be in the level of Folklore

 

 

Kim is easily the least liked song on the album and So High School is intentionally a complete sonic 180 from the rest of the project because it's about someone entirely different 

 

I don't understand how 2/31 (I'll even be generous and say 3/31 cause I think Broken Eardrums could reasonably get hit with the same criticism) makes the album in and of itself immature 

 

folklore and evermore contain songs like invisible string and nbnc, which I think could also reasonably be considered lyrically immature by your yardstick (with which I disagree on principle, but I will play by your rules here), but they don't detract from the overall picture of the album, and I don't understand why you're incapable of applying that to TTPD 

[SlowGinFizzzz]

No artistry = no legendary status. 

[AxelFox]

She's big enough, but she's not good enough. Which is why she'll never be a legend imo. 

[aotearoa]

since 2013 

[Cruel Summer]

3 minutes ago, SlowGinFizzzz said:

No artistry = no legendary status. 

Saying Taylor Swift has no artistry is one of the most laughable statements ever written on this website, and that's really saying a lot

[Kiel D-01]

Even if she's not considered one yet, it's only a matter of time. She's far too successful and acclaimed (by the music industry) to not be considered as one. 

[JoeAg]

yes

 

I think the combination of commercial success, versatility, critical acclaim, critical reappraisal, thinkpieces, relationship with fan culture, and number of excellent songs cements her as one. though I find that some of her songs can be overrated, I can't deny the magic of a lot of em. she's got plenty of moments of brilliance in there

 

but I have to concur a bit with @swissman, it MOST CERTAINLY is a bit difficult for a good amount of people to try to be objective and call her a legend due to the frequency at which she releases. this can come off as something desperate (I don't think of it as that, but some do!) or quantity over quality. this can make it feel like her presence can overwhelm any assertion of her as a larger than life legend status. at the same time, it can do the opposite. it could almost seem superhuman to produce as much as she gives out. think about Bowie with his Berlin trilogy, or Kate releasing two albums in 1978 and already being on her fourth by 1982. that's high saturation, but it wasn't uncommon back in the day. Taylor's strategies are uncommon for NOW, but she's really just a productive artist who knows what she wants to do  I think if she DOES eventually take a break, that'll solidify her legend status for many doubters 

[Trent W]

11 minutes ago, wastedpotential said:

Kim is easily the least liked song on the album and So High School is intentionally a complete sonic 180 from the rest of the project because it's about someone entirely different 

 

I don't understand how 2/31 (I'll even be generous and say 3/31 cause I think Broken Eardrums could reasonably get hit with the same criticism) makes the album in and of itself immature 

 

folklore and evermore contain songs like invisible string and nbnc, which I think could also reasonably be considered lyrically immature by your yardstick (with which I disagree on principle, but I will play by your rules here), but they don't detract from the overall picture of the album, and I don't understand why you're incapable of applying that to TTPD 

At the end of the day I still like TTPD

 

I just think she can do better, especially with the sound

 

OT: She's a legend

[mike_int]

Superstar?  - Yes

 

Icon?  - For certain demographic

 

Legend?  - No

 

 

[Solaria]

Easily. There isn't any other artist man or woman who has had such insane domination across all industry metrics. Her career is going to be discussed for many years to come even after she starts declining. She will surpass Madonna as the best-selling female artist of all time (as much as I hate that title being swept from her, but records are meant to be broken eventually) and it's for a good reason. 
 

As much as Swifties their rhetoric and Machiavellan dystopic ways grind my gears to no ends at times, Taylor works harder than anyone in the game. She wanted the crown since 2006 and she's gotten it.

[Relampago.]

Her and her peers reached legend status in the late 10s, except Katy. No shade to Katheryn though, she just never had that era after Prism that really solidified her legend status.

 

Taylor reached it after Reputation, Rihanna reached it after Anti, Gaga reached it after ASIB, Beyonce reached it before any of them after Self-Titled era, Adele reached it after 25. 

[Zendayababes]

1 hour ago, swissman said:

I think she's still far too "current" and releasing far too regularly for people to actively stop and consider her a legend vs. a contemporary, hugely successful artist. I think legends come into that status once their success or visibility settles down, and then people can view in them in a certain way. OR when they do something that gives them some "distance" from their peers in the industry (not just a level of success but access, or some sort of game changing output) that fast tracks their status in real time.

 

 

Also what is she truly gonna be remembered for?

 

It's the year 2060: "Oh yes Taylor Swift! She was/had one of the best_________"

 

...what? Tour gross?

[ArtDeco]

business-wise yes, otherwise musically she isn't that groundbreaking ngl

[By the Water]

That title is way too small for her considering who y'all call legend

[Patient Zero]

When it comes to success, yes. Being able to be this succesful while being a mediocre singer and a terrible performer is legendary by itself.

 

Other than that, no. There's nothing iconic about her. It's as vanilla as it can get. She's like a more succesful Gracie Adams. I've had enough of these vanilla artists getting hyped up while offering absolute tripe.

Edited 2 hours ago by Patient Zero

[HANZ94]

I Am not a stan but this Targaryen gurl has the most successful tour of all time and like 4 AOTY wins at the Grammys 

like what more receipts would someone need to be declared a legend? 

 

Of course she is 

[JonginBey]

Never gave that.

[The Music Industry]

34 minutes ago, Zendayababes said:

Also what is she truly gonna be remembered for?

 

It's the year 2060: "Oh yes Taylor Swift! She was/had one of the best_________"

 

...what? Tour gross?

Do you think you ate with that? Taylor will easily be remembered for the place she has in popular culture, for having one of if not the most impressive career ever in the music industry, for having millions upon millions of fans and admirers who allowed her to dominate the musical landscape for years and years. And yes, the Eras Tour will also be remembered as a global phenomenon that mobilized entire cities, having literal presidents/prime ministers begging her to perform in their countries. 

 

You are incredibly short-minded/disconnected with reality if you think Taylor Swift won't be remembered

[LanaDelRey]

In all honesty? no. She's still missing a true classic album. 

[Wicked]

3 hours ago, Vermillion said:

The term legend can't be used anymore for any artist alive or that died after social media because all mystique is gone with social media. Imho.

 

Then you'll have those with problematic backstories and controversies (some bigger than others) who popheads will insist means they can't be known as a legend anymore even past death but just an icon.

 

Taylor's an icon and because of pop culture losing any sense of mystery or mystique starting with social media I don't think will ever be known as a legend even past her death. That also goes honestly for Beyonce and Madonna too even, honestly, though they're icons.

 

The only one I'd say reach legend status right now despite the problematic backstories (some small, some massive) mostly because there's always higher fondness past death are MJ, Prince, Bowie, Lennon, Whitney Houston, etc. But that's subjective.

I get what you mean, I might agree with this. What does being a legend even mean in 2025 with the way people interact with music and entertainment at large being completely different? 

 

These are pre streaming era titles that don't hold weight anymore. It's like the word "classic"

[Mr.X]

Legend of her label's marketing department, for sure

[Rei]

12 minutes ago, LanaDelRey said:

In all honesty? no. She's still missing a true classic album. 

So the only popgirl to win AOTY 4 times is missing a classic album?

 

K bye for now, Sunshine. <3