base talk Why is it unpopular to say that Taylor is as big as MJ?

[Twizzy]

Because during his peak, MJ's picture was on every cover of every magazine in line at the grocery store. He was the only thing EVERYONE was talking about for a period of time. 

 

He was in a hugely popular commercial for Pepsi that popped up every 5 minutes and everyone referenced all throughout the 80s

 

Thriller was also on a whole 'nother level. The album sold out intensely fast, people would actually camp outside the stores waiting for shipments. Many people wanted to borrow the physicals that people could buy.

 

When MJ toured, he specifically set up "family packs" where people could get 4 tickets for $100, because all ages enjoyed his music so much.

 

Quite frankly, I've never seen anyone even wear Taylor Swift merch in NYC and I travel every day on the train. 

[TaylorsSquad]

She's bigger than that weirdo. 

[duybeeGAshantiGA]

He was not as polarising. Also, 100% people, despite loving or hating him, would agree that he is insanely multitalented, unlike someone.

[Bewitched]

27 minutes ago, Slap said:

Because the few remaining MJ fans are in deep denial about him being a child abuser and they hold onto his "legacy" to avoid facing that they stan a genuinely terrible person who groomed not only his victims but the entire world to distract from his obvious criminal activity. If success is the metric then Taylor deserves to be placed alongside him, I don't like Taylor but she's not an abuser. Pretty Young Thing indeed. 

I wasn't gonna say this but…. yeah

[Mordecai]

24 minutes ago, Tylerbv said:

Honestly? Because her talent is so low compared to his. People fainted to see him and she can barely sing

This tbh. People still diss Madonna to this day for a perceived 'lack of vocal talent' and although she's not a Mariah or Whitney vocally she's unmatched when it comes to her consistent artistic versatility and reinvention as an artist, for how long she was able to stay relevant and her performance abilities. Whenever Swifties jump to Taylor's defence over her talent they usually point to her lyricism but she's not even that great. There's nothing you can point to and say 'yes, Taylor is very talented in that aspect'

 

I also think the music just isn't that good either but that's more of an opinion than anything else

[cuteboyzay]

Because the first time in awhile YT people aren't being allowed to lump or attach their name to something that they truly don't have any BUSINESS being lumped in WITH. She's definitely a phenomenon but the numbers she's achieving aren't as impressive as what MJ OR MADONNA was doing lmaoooo!!! Also given that she is literally a YT woman that makes POP music, and is the least controversial/polarizing artist we have EVER had.

 

Edited August 5 by cuteboyzay

[Loca]

Because she can't perform and isn't a real complete star like Michael. Her voice sucks ass too

[nostalgic]

22 minutes ago, Blackout2006 said:

Michael Jackson's artistry, performances, and cultural impact changed the trajectory of pop music, pop culture, and music forever. His impact was universal and is still prolifically evident nearly 50 years after he debuted. 

I never questioned that and absolutely agree with you. I was saying that everyone will have a different opinion on her being "the next MJ" based on how they see her in respect to those different attributes. I don't personally think so, they're too far apart in terms of artistry. Taylor is in her own league and so was Michael.

[itshyolee]

Because she isn't and her peak is greatly exaggerated due to the fact that we have social media and other platforms where her face and music can literally be pasted everywhere, which is a luxury that artists from back then didn't have. 

And for some tea, MJ was pretty much adored by everyone regardless of race and nationality. As quiet as it's kept, Taylor's fanbase isn't that diverse at all.
 

40 minutes ago, Tylerbv said:

Honestly? Because her talent is so low compared to his. People fainted to see him and she can barely sing

This. Michael was talented as hell, whereas Taylor's specialty is her songwriting (which can be argued that it's not all that special and worth the hype).

 

[Kill Me]

Because she's not a pedophile and if the fans are still stanning after MULTIPLE pedophile accusations it would take nothing to make them convince other artists are as big as their kiddie diddling fave's heyday where they were watching his videos on MTV while ignoring him talking about literally sleeping with kids in a closed room with no adult or ANY supervision...

[bad guy]

 

[Wicked]

Because she isn't. Why can't y'all leave it at biggest artist of the 21st century or something. You're comparing 2 different climates in totality. 2 different music industries and 2 different worlds.

 

Comparisons like that don't make no ******* sense.

[supertiffany]

1 hour ago, Twizzy said:

Because during his peak, MJ's picture was on every cover of every magazine in line at the grocery store. He was the only thing EVERYONE was talking about for a period of time. 

 

He was in a hugely popular commercial for Pepsi that popped up every 5 minutes and everyone referenced all throughout the 80s

 

Thriller was also on a whole 'nother level. The album sold out intensely fast, people would actually camp outside the stores waiting for shipments. Many people wanted to borrow the physicals that people could buy.

 

When MJ toured, he specifically set up "family packs" where people could get 4 tickets for $100, because all ages enjoyed his music so much.

 

Quite frankly, I've never seen anyone even wear Taylor Swift merch in NYC and I travel every day on the train. 

Even Taylor's songs from the album she released this year are not as big as her

 

You expect that a single song she released this year sould be as big as Espresso and BoaF

 

 

But she has a massive and dedicated fanbase 

 

 

[Radical Pessimism]

She's bigger than MJ! 

[Baegalme]

I think for most people it's hard to see it because she doesn't have half of the impact and influence he had. 
 

Her numbers are huge and if we're talking about commercial success only she might be close. Let's not forget MJ was so big he managed to become the biggest selling solo artist of all time with only 10 albums (6 as an adult) that's how big he was 

[Bosque]

 

3 hours ago, CherryBay said:

What a bs 

 

Without internet and streaming she would not have that success and exposure 

MJs fans had to go to a music shop buy records and to buy tickets there wasn't online shopping or ticketmaster 

she is a phenomenon but saying she has harder than MJ had …please 

it's lot like going to the record store was some kind of unusual thing to do back then  why do you think music industry revenues were so much higher in the 80s and 90s than they are now?

[The_Bling]

It really is as simple as "she's a woman, he's a man" she'd be a lot more accepted and embraced by the GP and wouldn't be half as polarizing if she was a man - straight men wouldn't feel threatened by her success and would instead call her tHe gOaT or whatever stupid thing they say 

[The7thStranger]

It holds little weight coming from people who weren't alive when he was a staple in mainstream popular music.

 

If you weren't there, you don't get it. Michael was bigger. Taylor is in the same tier as a lot of the legends of that era though. Culture was different, and the way we consumed media was as well. It's hard to truly compare them.

[WildHeart]

4 hours ago, naval23 said:

Thriller sold 70M worldwide, was the best selling record in multiple countries for multiple years in a row and had record breaking worldwide singles including "Beat It" and "Billie Jean".

 

Be serious

Neither The Beatles or Madonna had an album as big as Thriller 

 

1 hour ago, supertiffany said:

Even Taylor's songs from the album she released this year are not as big as her

 

You expect that a single song she released this year sould be as big as Espresso and BoaF

 

 

But she has a massive and dedicated fanbase 

 

 

Cruel Summer, the defining song of her peak about the become the most streamed female song EVER

[Jay07]

Because Michael was almost inhumanely talented, incredible writer, singer and dancer who broke down barriers all the way. He got Black artists played on MTV because he was that popular and basically pioneered the big budget music video and elaborate "era" rollout.

 

Taylor is just a mediocre writer and terrible singer and dancer who managed to cultivate a parasocial fanbase by relentlessly marketing her personal life and constantly playing the victim and now peddles voice notes and phone memos to them every week. She may have the numbers but she doesn't have the impact.

Edited August 5 by Jay07

[Moonlight Nation]

4 hours ago, gustavothehuman said:

Because in cultural terms she will never get anywhere near Michael Jackson. He broke down racial barriers in the industry, Madonna pushed the boundaries of what women could do, what impact on such level can Taylor hold claim to?

 

That's the answer. Michael Jackson and Madonna stood for something greater than themselves and their ubiquitous success represented important socio-cultural movements for the music industry in addition to inciting crucial conversations on the double standards regarding race and gender. Not to mention both set the blueprint for the pop craft that's still consistently followed to this day. Elaborate album rollouts, high budget productions for music videos creating a whole universe and/or storyline to the songs, the showcase that pop music can also integrate thought-provoking messages like rock and soul did, but also adding visuals to the mix.

 

"Thriller" 's cultural presence was so undeniable that MTV was essentially forced to put Michael's music videos on regular rotation. Previously, they only put videos from black artists very late at night, if not outright rejected them due to their lack of 'mass appeal'. Meanwhile, Madonna took the art of touring to a completely new level and set the standard for conceptual and immersive concert experiences in pop.

 

Some people keep obsessing over numbers, records, and inflated, sensationalist media coverage while completely ignoring the main reason why Michael Jackson and Madonna were crowned pop royalty in the first place. This doesn't discredit what Taylor has achieved, especially with regards to her commendable longevity, but as you said, she simply doesn't have this level of zeitgeist shifting impact, and that's okay. 

Edited August 5 by Moonlight Nation

[blackoutbaby]

I mean no disrespect to Taylor, because I genuinely think she is amazing to have had the success she's had, especially considering how she's been around since before even Katy or Gaga, yet has managed to reach new peaks this far into her career.

 

That being said, whether anyone wants to admit it or not, if you are an artist in pop music today, then you are a byproduct of Michael Jackson. He literally is the blueprint for pop music today. Without him, pop wouldn't be what it is now.

 

I think taking that into account, nobody can ever "surpass" him nor have the same impact he has had. Taylor has her own lane, though, and doesn't need to be compared to anyone. I doubt she would want that herself.

[Princess Aurora]

Actually, Taylor gives me The Beatlesmania vibes more than MJ tbh. People were deranged and obsessed with him. Boys wanted to be him and girls loved him. Taylor's cultural phenomenon can be compared to the Beatles and this is coming from sociologists 

[Feanor]

Because the more accurate comparison are the Beatles.

[CaptainMusic]

Because Taylor isn't as talented and her appeal isn't as diverse.

 

Taylor's fanbase is like 90% white women and gays while MJ appealed to everyone.