Poncho Barlliams Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 21 hours ago, Chris said: The only reason Madonna's success in the United States was minimal is because of the ageism she faced at that time (and still does to this day) and Hung Up was not really played on the radio like that. You have to consider age here as well. Mariah Carey was only in her mid 30s and she had all the radio support in the world with WBT (One of my favorite songs ever) and other singles from TEOM. Then unfortunately, like Madonna she faced the same ageism as she got older when it came to radio play. Her last shining moment was Touch My Body (and maybe Obsessed) and Madonna only had success with 4 Minutes because JT was included on the song. Both ladies deserve better. Mariah was banned from the radio due to the influence of Motolla She may not have suffered ageism like Madonna, but she suffered racism and sexism from the American media, Pitchfork recognized this when they revisited TEOM in their review. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poncho Barlliams Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 Ray of Light is Madonna's true comeback, after spending almost the entire 90s being beaten by Mariah/Whitney/Janet/Celine, shes had a great comeback at the end of the decade. Erotica was a huge sales disaster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50thStateofMind Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 1 hour ago, Charmed Life said: The world doesn't revolve around the US. The US is mainly into (c)rap and R+B. Not dance music from a (then) 46 year old woman. and it doesn't revolve around european countries who stan euroTRASH either 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Starr Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 1 hour ago, Charmed Life said: The world doesn't revolve around the US. The US is mainly into (c)rap and R+B. Not dance music from a (then) 46 year old woman. Thank goodness 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatiRod Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 21 hours ago, Chris said: The only reason Madonna's success in the United States was minimal is because of the ageism she faced at that time (and still does to this day) and Hung Up was not really played on the radio like that. You have to consider age here as well. Mariah Carey was only in her mid 30s and she had all the radio support in the world with WBT (One of my favorite songs ever) and other singles from TEOM. Then unfortunately, like Madonna she faced the same ageism as she got older when it came to radio play. Her last shining moment was Touch My Body (and maybe Obsessed) and Madonna only had success with 4 Minutes because JT was included on the song. Both ladies deserve better. I don't think it's fair to call COADF 'minimal success' in the US. Obviously it wasn't nearly as big as Emancipation, but "Hung Up" went Top 10 and topped iTunes for two weeks. The album did 350k first week and 1.7M copies total. That is in the same amount as other successful pop girl albums of the mid 2000s like 'Fijacion Oral Vol 2', 'Back to Basics', 'A Girl Like Me', 'The Sweet Escape' and 'The Best Damn Thing'. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poncho Barlliams Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 11 hours ago, Charmed Life said: Why did Madonna's success grow and Mariah fall off a cliff with her next album, E=MC²? what successes are these? SPOTIFY: E=MC 304,676 x Hard Candy 251,53 TMB 181,393 x 4 Minutes 188,897 (with Justin Timberlake) Bye Bye 83,701 x Give It 2 Me 16,262 + Miles Away 4,871 = 21,133 I Stay In Love 19,904 x Celebration 15,077 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poncho Barlliams Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 2 hours ago, Charmed Life said: As if the number of streams is a reflection of an album "standing the test of time". is a great reflection, as it shows which albums continue to be consumed after their release 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poncho Barlliams Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 6 hours ago, Xtripped said: Mimi is still unknown in most of Latam countries outside Christmas. I'm talking about the biggest country in Latin America and I can say that this is a lie lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poncho Barlliams Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 2 hours ago, MP3 said: Curious to see the % of those streams that come from the US You should be more concerned with knowing why the 47 countries that COADF got #1 aren't listening to the "Global" album 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poncho Barlliams Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 2 hours ago, NoAngelus said: There were no radio payolas I wouldn't be so sure https://www.foxnews.com/story/warner-music-payola-scandal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VioletsandRoses Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 2 hours ago, MatiRod said: I don't think it's fair to call COADF 'minimal success' in the US. Obviously it wasn't nearly as big as Emancipation, but "Hung Up" went Top 10 and topped iTunes for two weeks. The album did 350k first week and 1.7M copies total. That is in the same amount as other successful pop girl albums of the mid 2000s like 'Fijacion Oral Vol 2', 'Back to Basics', 'A Girl Like Me', 'The Sweet Escape' and 'The Best Damn Thing'. I wouldnt compare a 2005 album to 2006/2007. Especially 2007. Digital sales increased A LOT in those 2 years and album sales declined A Lot. Just from 2005 to 2009 album sales declined in half. It's definitely the biggest comeback. Hung Up was a huge success and the other singles also did great outside the US. The album sold 1.7m in the US and over 9 million WW. Lol at the Mariah comparison. The album and singles were super local. Hung Up actually reached #1 in sales in the US while WBT never did despite being the most played song on radio for 16 weeks. Globally it's no comparison. Madonna for ALL!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyboi Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 Renaissance is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 14 hours ago, Charmed Life said: WBT was a monster smash in a few places, and that's why the album sold decently. Hung Up did not have the radio support We Belong Together did, which is why it was able to be number 1 for so many weeks and why Hung Up only peaked at 7. Everyone always glosses over this. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 Mariah Carey at Madonna's age during Confessions (47) released I Don't which charted at #89, With You didn't even chart, and A No No didn't chart as well. Notice the pattern? Let's see if people don't deflect from what I just typed. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 22 hours ago, stevyy said: Streaming: (Spotify, July 22nd) 996,928,713 - TEOM 704,222,596 - COADF Top tracks: 475,055,234 - Hung Up ---------- 626,340,171 - We Belong Together 90,416,579 - Sorry --------------- 120,398,888 - Shake It Off 46,053,596 - Jump --------------- 87,365,770 - It's Like That 27,586,821 - Get Together -------- 51,242,956 - Don't Forget About Us 12,484,468 - Forbidden Love ----- 13,440,199 - Get Your Number All this globality, a 100 million countries at #1 and still not competing with re-current streaming with TEOM? On Sunday, TEOM will surpass 1 billion streams - Mariah's 3rd album to do so. (Madonna has none). Streaming has nothing to do with which album had the better comeback since it did not exist around that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda Pop Queen Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 I think the most spectacular comeback is and will always be Tina Turner's 'Private Dancer' era and the subsequent years. A true phoenix rising from the ashes situation, both professionally and personally and the earliest I can recall from a female artist. Had it not been for Tina unexpectedly stomping in her 40s, a peer like Cher wouldn't have been able to do it a few years later, a successor like Madonna wouldn't have been able to do it in the late 90s-mid-00s and a a progeny like Beyoncé wouldn't have been able to do it in this decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevyy Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chris said: Streaming has nothing to do with which album had the better comeback since it did not exist around that time. That wasn't the point. I posted that in response to the person ahead of me, calling TEOM forgotten and "without impact". IF TEOM is forgotten, so is COADF. Edited July 25 by stevyy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevyy Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chris said: Mariah Carey at Madonna's age during Confessions (47) released I Don't which charted at #89, With You didn't even chart, and A No No didn't chart as well. Notice the pattern? Let's see if people don't deflect from what I just typed. Mariah at the age of 55 was literally #1 on the H100. Reflect on that. My opinion is this: It's not about the age of the performer, it is about the era in which they operate. For example: Streisand at the age of 55 in 1997 had an album sell almost 4 million copies in the US alone. Imagine if anyone above 50 today would get to that level on sps (incl. streaming) sales. IMPOSSIBLE. Dionne Warwick had the biggest song of 1986 at the age of 46. Legendary performers were not as much discarded and not as quickly discarded as today. Mariah's "I don't" wasn't a strong single / song. A No No was released before the album was out, with no other promotion than be put on streaming and digital services. The single was not utilized or got the stamp of what we perceive as a single until March 2019 (5 months later). Artists today only have got 1 chance to even get on the charts: Release a song and have everything ready at once on all outlets. These age comparisons do not make sense bc at the age of 20 Mariah had her first #1 single, Madonna reached her first #1 at the age of 26 and needed 4 tries in order to achieve that. Age from first to final #1: 26 - 42 = 16 years - Madonna 20 - 49 = 29 years - Mariah Every bit of shade can be re-directed. I find it very try-hard to find ways to just denounce Mariah's success. There is no gain in that, imo. It's just stoopid, imo. Edited July 25 by stevyy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1989 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 I definitely think the most spectacular comeback was Private Dancer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 3 minutes ago, stevyy said: Mariah at the age of 55 was literally #1 on the H100. And why was that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 Making age comparisons is not denouncing anyone's success. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightbringer007 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 the fact that both madonna and mariah had such huge comebacks decades since their debut is just iconic and legendary beyond words 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevyy Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 Just now, Chris said: And why was that? streaming / sales and airplay = all metrics of the H100. Maybe Madonna can record a holiday song as well. (Oh wait...) Don't you find it odd that the Mariah jingle went to #1 in 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023? And subsequently being the only holiday song in recorded history that achieved that so far? (It's also been #1 on the BB Global chart incl. 2024 already). (It's also the only holiday song which has achieved that since the charts inception). TWENTY countries made the song their #1 last year. TWENTY. Therefore, I think her level of success is safe and sound. The Merry Christmas album also sold more sps units globally this decade (2020-2024) (2,4 million) than any Madonna album since MDNA?? Mariah can flop all year round and into oblivion with new music and still outsell most popgirls with so-called hits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 (edited) 2 minutes ago, stevyy said: streaming / sales and airplay = all metrics of the H100. Maybe Madonna can record a holiday song as well. (Oh wait...) Don't you find it odd that the Mariah jingle went to #1 in 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023? And subsequently being the only holiday song in recorded history that achieved that so far? (It's also been #1 on the BB Global chart incl. 2024 already). (It's also the only holiday song which has achieved that since the charts inception). TWENTY countries made the song their #1 last year. TWENTY. Therefore, I think her level of success is safe and sound. The Merry Christmas album also sold more sps units globally this decade (2020-2024) (2,4 million) than any Madonna album since MDNA?? Mariah can flop all year round and into oblivion with new music and still outsell most popgirls with so-called hits. I am not reading all of this. Anything else besides AIWFCIY? Edited July 25 by Chris 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevyy Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Chris said: Making age comparisons is not denouncing anyone's success. It is bc you continue to not even reply to my view of introducing context and a shift in ageism and the complexity of the streaming era which is very hostile to legacy artists. Instead, you claim that Mariah's career was somehow short lived bc she didn't have a hit song at the age of 47 or sth... while also shading the fact that she just ranked #1 on the H100 and in twenty other markets at the age of 55. Make up your mind. I know what you mean. But every level of shade can be re-directed and this crying out about Xmas should not be an excuse when everyone under the sun has xmas music, incl. Taylor who doesn't get a shoe in, nor Madonna who also apparently has a Xmas cover (not an original song ofc). Edited July 25 by stevyy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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