discussion Why is England so uncomfortable with any conversation about race?

[BOOMBAYAH]

During the quarterfinal of the Euros, England faced Switzerland, and the game eventually ended in a draw, leading to penalties. All five penalties taken by the England team were successful, with four of the five penalty shooters being Black. Rio Ferdinand, a former England footballer, made a post congratulating the players and also called out the racists within the England fandom and nation.

 

 

For context, in the last Euro competition, England reached the final, which also went to penalties. Back then, all the players who took the penalties were Black, and none managed to score, leading to a barrage of racist comments and threats against the players. The abuse was so severe that even Prince William and major politicians made statements condemning the racist attacks.

 

You would think Rio's post condemning racists and uplifting the Black players this time around would receive a lot of positive comments. Instead, half of the comments were people complaining and chastising Rio for "making things about race" and the other half was people combatting these comments. This instance is just one example, but as a Black Brit living in England, I've noticed that (outside my progressive circle) people in the UK don't even want to talk about race at all, as if it is a taboo. In politics, I also notice that when race is discussed, it's done in the most superficial "be kind to everyone" manner instead of in a more nuanced and truly critical way. Even when bringing up race is obviously relevant, like in Rio's post with the context of the previous Euros, you are still shamed for mentioning it.

 

Some of the comments (would take too long to screenshot):

 

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Why you gotta stir this up again? Surely just be happy we won? Skin colour is irrelevant but these posts just add fuel to the fire. 😢

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Why do we have to make it about race?? There's absolutely no need for this. Poor

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Terrible from ferdy here tbf there was no need to mention this he decided to try make a powerful post but failed and divided fans well done

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Pathetic post. Why bring this up. Shows the racism exists on both sides

[Space Cowboy]

Why are americans so obsessed with race?

[Virgos Groove]

Because Europe never had Jim Crow-style segregation, a lot of (white) Europeans believe they live in a post-racial society. They claim to be anti-racist, but what they're actually against is racism as a "topic".

 

It's not uncommon to hear Europeans say stuff like "Why do Americans talk about race so much??" or "Nobody cares about racism here", while at the same time wishing death on their Black and Roma populations.

 

Plus, in many countries, it's illegal to take statistics based on race, meaning the disavantages Europeans of color face aren't acknowledged.

Edited July 7 by Virgos Groove

[Forever Winter]

Why is this in Base?

[AndThenTheCocaine]

I mean do you expect the comment section of an Instagram post about football/soccer to have a reasonable and measured response to racism 

Edited July 7 by AndThenTheCocaine

[State of Grace.]

I mean.....it's England. Self-explanatory.  

 

And racism and bigotry (homophobia, islamophobia, etc) are VERY rampant in football and they are never properly addressed outside of the "There is no place for racism and hate in football" kumbaya statements.

[Devin]

5 minutes ago, Space Cowboy said:

Why are americans so obsessed with race?

mb cause racism still exist at a high-rate here?

[alexrex]

Legacy from a colonialist and racist past. 

 

For reference, check the crown. The best example of racism in the UK. 

[BOOMBAYAH]

5 minutes ago, Treason said:

Why is this in Base?

I am so bad when it comes to labelling, how do I change it to civics? 

Edited July 7 by BOOMBAYAH

[Virgos Groove]

6 minutes ago, Space Cowboy said:

Why are americans so obsessed with race?

250 years of slavery + 50 years of Jim Crow + the crack epidemic which overwhelmingly affected Black (and Latino) communities + still-existing police brutality and mass incarceration. I think the answer is pretty obvious.

 

But I'm gonna flip the question: why are we Europeans (which I assume you are) so unconfortable with conversations about race?

[BOOMBAYAH]

4 minutes ago, AndThenTheCocaine said:

I mean do you expect the comment section of an Instagram post about football/soccer to have a reasonable and measured response to racism 

He's gotten the same response on Twitter (IK Probably even worse), but as a Brit I can tell you that these sentiments reflect reality quite closely. No one here likes to talk about race and gets very uncomfortable/dumb when it's brought up in any capacity.

 

 

[AndThenTheCocaine]

7 minutes ago, BOOMBAYAH said:

He's gotten the same response on Twitter (IK Probably even worse), but as a Brit I can tell you that these sentiments reflect reality quite closely. No one here likes to talk about race and gets very uncomfortable/dumb when it's brought up in any capacity.

Oh I don't disagree at all, but like Instagram comment sections of football fans are probably the lowest it can get before you get to the 4chan-lite places 

 

Literally anything vaguely about minorities or women attracts the -phobes and -ists in droves there, it's kinda sad really.

Edited July 7 by AndThenTheCocaine

[constantinople]

White guilt from their colonial past. And it's not just an England phenomenon, it also happens in Spain, Portugal, France or any other european country with an obscure imperial past.

[glitch]

Football fans are especially bad. The loud ones can't handle anything other than *man kick ball on pitch and score goal*. Any talk about ethnicity, gender or sexuality sends them into meltdown. "Stick to the football, leave politics out of it!" they cry.

 

Our outgoing government definitely enabled this type of rhetoric with the dismissal of any conversations around equality as "woke nonsense".

 

The only thing I will say is that post on twitter has over 100k likes and the top comments with the most likes seem to be supporting his message at least.

Edited July 7 by glitch

[Space Cowboy]

1 minute ago, Devin said:

mb cause racism still exist at a high-rate here?

Racism exists everywhere and i'd say europe is more racist than the US. But americans for some reason are obsessed with bringing race into every conversation.

 

You have artists having to write entire essays about their racial background because some people can't mind their own business

Spoiler

 

 

Or just look at some Taylor's threads on this forum. Some people love to use the fact that her fanbase is mostly white as a drag and i'm always "what does that have to do with anything ???"

 

I just can't understand why americans are so obsessed with race. We all are people after all.

[The7thStranger]

It's my impression that the UK has a very hard time pointing the gun back at themselves when it comes to things that other countries suffer from on a greater scale (or at least, that's how it is perceived). I think it stems from a collective inferiority complex that has trickled down from the period where they once ruled a large part of the world. The UK's reputation has taken serious hits over the past few decades, something I'm not sure they were ready for.

 

The first thing that comes out of a more ignorant Brit's mouths when you criticize the UK is "Yeah, but America..." or "But in Europe..." as if their nation has somehow evolved beyond other developed nations when, in reality, it hasn't.

Edited July 7 by The7thStranger

[Dialamba]

England has the worst supporters. The comments playing dense when we all know how badly they treated saka and rashford. 

And I'll add, for some reason non-French are concerned by the fact most players are black, this is so weird to be me because despite the racism in France, I see more comments from outsiders than French people. 

[Saintlor]

10 minutes ago, constantinople said:

White guilt from their colonial past. And it's not just an England phenomenon, it also happens in Spain, Portugal, France or any other european country with an obscure imperial past.

Maybe the phrase means something different than the obvious but there's no way people feel any kind of guilt  

[Vespertine]

32 minutes ago, Virgos Groove said:

Because Europe never had Jim Crow-style segregation, a lot of (white) Europeans believe they live in a post-racial society. They claim to be anti-racist, but what they're actually against is racism as a "topic".

 

It's not uncommon to hear Europeans say stuff like "Why do Americans talk about race so much??" or "Nobody cares about racism here", while at the same time wishing death on their Black and Roma populations.

This **** drives me crazy. It sometimes makes me unwilling to engage in serious conversation with Europeans, because they are so often completely unwilling to entertain the possibilities that 1) Americans have a very different experience 2) their cultures perhaps stick their collective head in the sand about race.

 

There were multiple European students in my grad school cohort who basically tried to shut every conversation down with "well this isn't a problem in MY country" and I wanted to ******* rip my hair out  

 

It's extra rich when it's coming from people whose "MY country!!!" participated in colonizing and enslaving the world + inventing the concept of race to help justify it, or masterminded the Holocaust, or… the list goes on

[glitch]

4 minutes ago, The7thStranger said:

The first thing that comes out of a more ignorant Brit's mouths when you criticize the UK is "Yeah, but America..." or "But in Europe..." as if their nation has somehow evolved beyond other developed nations when, in reality, it hasn't.

This is very true. I remember a few years back when Polish fans were making monkey noises at black players in a tournament and everyone here was up in arms. When I pointed out to someone that English football fans engage in their fair share of racism they completely dismissed it 

[The7thStranger]

Just now, glitch said:

This is very true. I remember a few years back when Polish fans were making monkey noises at black players in a tournament and everyone here was up in arms. When I pointed out to someone that English football fans engage in their fair share of racism they completely dismissed it 

It's an infuriating and poor attempt at deflecting the blame.

[constantinople]

1 minute ago, Space Cowboy said:

Racism exists everywhere and i'd say europe is more racist than the US. But americans for some reason are obsessed with bringing race into every conversation.

 

You have artists having to write entire essays about their racial background because some people can't mind their own business

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Or just look at some Taylor's threads on this forum. Some people love to use the fact that her fanbase is mostly white as a drag and i'm always "what does that have to do with anything ???"

 

I just can't understand why americans are so obsessed with race. We all are people after all.

Because the United States is a post-colonial nation built by europeans on racism, slavery and indigenous genocide like any other country in the american continent. The english colonization was segregationist and that policy reflected on post-independent US and the identitary social context.

https://www.facinghistory.org/resource-library/we-they-colonial-america

 

In Latin America europeans mixed with black and indigenous folks (many WOC were r***d, because the majority of the colonizers were men), in Anglo-America europeans segregated themselves (the majority of the colonizers were whole families).

[JBJT2786]

16 minutes ago, Space Cowboy said:

Racism exists everywhere and i'd say europe is more racist than the US.

You should've stopped right here. The rest is whataboutism about the U.S. when the U.S. wasn't mentioned in the OP at all. 

[Cain]

I think the sheer fact that the US population is made out of 14% black people and the widely documented history of how that came to be made that racism as a discussion is something undeniable there. Other factors such as the 'recept' arrival of white Europeans in the Americas and the near collapse of its indigenous populations also play a part in that

 

While in Europe that discussion has very much been denied until quite recently, and even then as you can see a large part of the population is denying it even til this day. There is a real classical sense of what Europe supposedly is (white, Christian, "indigenous" to the land) and anyone that is not that is seen as a mere visitor or still seen as 'new' even though their ancestors have been living in Europe for generations long. Because most European countries don't have a large enough single group of non-white populations to unify and fight this stereotype and because most produced knowledge by Europe is that it's 1) better/more enlightened/more civilized than the US and 2) never had race based slavery in its continent (which is a lie), a lot of people are still mentally able to deny racism is a thing here like they say it is in the US

[John Slayne]

44 minutes ago, Virgos Groove said:

Because Europe never had Jim Crow-style segregation, a lot of (white) Europeans believe they live in a post-racial society. They claim to be anti-racist, but what they're actually against is racism as a "topic".

 

It's not uncommon to hear Europeans say stuff like "Why do Americans talk about race so much??" or "Nobody cares about racism here", while at the same time wishing death on their Black and Roma populations.

 

Plus, in many countries, it's illegal to take statistics based on race, meaning the disavantages Europeans of color face aren't acknowledged.

all of this plus the fact that it's football, which for some reason attracts the most openly racist people in the population.