base talk Here's The Problem With Swifties (and all fanbases)

[RideOrDie]

7 minutes ago, PoisonedIvy said:

This is exactly what my OP said sis  it's ok, I wouldn't have read it all either

oh, i'm sorry good sis. i read it now and we on the same frequency! 

 

[Miracle Whip]

Swifties wouldn't have lasted two minutes in the monsters shoes back in 2013-2014 on ATRL.  
 

 

 

 

 

[KatyPrismSpirit]

Honey, you Swifties tend to provoke non-fans and even casual Taylor listeners, to be honest. Whenever a female artist has an album out, you always see Swifties harassing said fanbase. It mostly starts with Swifties. You know why? Because there are so many Swifties out there on these pop forums/stan communities that use Taylor's massive commercial success and popularity as a shield to A) harass other artists (primarily Beyoncé and Ariana) and as a result uphold unrealistic expectations for women in the music industry to bash them if they don't fit that standard. I would say a very solid amount of Swifties are only into Taylor's accolades and commercial successes and not even the music. It's a sad reality, but the truth. Swifties tend to be aggressors in that sense. Just look at how y'all acted the week Eternal Sunshine and Cowboy Carter dropped.

 

 

[Hephaestus]

[Kern]

16 minutes ago, PoisonedIvy said:

verall I wish we didn't entertain threads created by people who only want to generate negative discussions

Same but I think reporting troll/flamebair/disruptive threads actually do work to some degree

[ariananext]

I agree we shouldn't focus/be defined by what we dislike, but I disagree with the analysis. I mean, that's one reason, but it's more than just responding to criticism there.

[PoisonedIvy]

17 minutes ago, KatyPrismSpirit said:

Honey, you Swifties tend to provoke non-fans and even casual Taylor listeners, to be honest. 

I disagree, but I understand the circumstances that lead you to believe this to be true. I do not deny that is your perspective and experience.

 

Quote

Whenever a female artist has an album out, you always see Swifties harassing said fanbase. It mostly starts with Swifties. 

Swifties didn't harass these artists (or their fanbases): Kacey, Dua, Gracie, Normani, Meghan Trainor, Sia, Willow, Maggie Rogers, Tori Kelly, or any handful of dozens upon dozens of female artists that have released albums this year.
 

"Always" is an absolutism that is unfairly used here. You can count on one hand the "feuds/harassment" that involve Swift's fans this year: 

 

1. eternal sunshine (barely)

2. Cowboy Carter

3. HMHAS

4. brat

 

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You know why? Because there are so many Swifties out there on these pop forums/stan communities that use Taylor's massive commercial success and popularity as a shield to A) harass other artists (primarily Beyoncé and Ariana) and as a result uphold unrealistic expectations for women in the music industry to bash them if they don't fit that standard. 

There are definitely success stans, that's the case with any popular mainstream artist. But I don't actually believe they're harassing Beyonce and Ariana unprovoked. Just like I don't believe arianators or beyhives are harassing swifties unprovoked. None of these fanbases are instigators. They are all retaliatory/defenders. Everyone is fighting a war that no one is even sure who started. There is no singular side that holds more or less blame. Both sides are equally guilty of provoking the other, and to pretend otherwise is to argue in bad faith.

 

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I would say a very solid amount of Swifties are only into Taylor's accolades and commercial successes and not even the music. 

And I would vehemently disagree? I see this claim a lot from you guys but yet I spend a lot of my time -discussing- the music of Taylor, both new and old, with plenty of her fans on this site, on other social media, and in real life. A good indicator that the fans are actually enjoying the music is the tour: it is the biggest tour of all time for a reason. Her fanbase connects with the music. We always have. For nearly 2 decades we have enjoyed her music. The stats she puts up aren't because her fans are obsessed with numbers, the stats she puts up are -because- her fans are obsessed with the music. The surprise song set at Eras Tour shows just how many people have always known and loved her deep cuts. 
 

Quote

Swifties tend to be aggressors in that sense. Just look at how y'all acted the week Eternal Sunshine and Cowboy Carter dropped.

Retaliation: Look at how Arianators acted in 2019 when thank u next was outperforming Lover? Look at how Beyhive acted in 2023 when they were ridiculing Eras Tour performances in favor of uplifting RWT performances? I'm not painting Swifties as innocent, but I'm also not going to pretend they aren't just retaliating to aggression they've received — just as the other fanbases are doing the same.

 

Remove the goggles and realize everyone is fighting a losing battle because they are in a war without even knowing who started it.

[PoisonedIvy]

10 minutes ago, ariananext said:

I agree we shouldn't focus/be defined by what we dislike, but I disagree with the analysis. I mean, that's one reason, but it's more than just responding to criticism there.

The people that "attack" other artists (which I do not condone or enjoy, I hate it on both ends) are typically doing it because they've witnessed the "opposing" fanbase attack or criticize their fav. A swiftie that attacks Ariana "unprovoked" was -radicalized- (or provoked) way back in 2019 when they witnessed some Arianator belittling Taylor during Lover era when Ari was doing better with tun. And vice versa, an arianator that "attacks" Taylor unprovoked was "provoked" by that same swiftie from before attacking Positions in 2020 when folklore was doing better, without realizing that Swiftie was just "retaliating" against the Lover / tun drama, which spurred from Sweetener versus rep at Grammys, etc etc etc. it just is a never ending spiral that can't even truly be pinpointed, so to act like we can assign blame to one side or the other is ludicrous.  

[PoisonedIvy]

I should really stop taking adderall, it makes me think too much and some of that spills over onto ATRL for no reason  

[Grizzo]

42 minutes ago, Miracle Whip said:

Swifties wouldn't have lasted two minutes in the monsters shoes back in 2013-2014 on ATRL.  
 

 

 

 

 

they wouldn't last an hour in the asylum where little monsters were raised

[ariananext]

9 minutes ago, PoisonedIvy said:

The people that "attack" other artists (which I do not condone or enjoy, I hate it on both ends) are typically doing it because they've witnessed the "opposing" fanbase attack or criticize their fav. A swiftie that attacks Ariana "unprovoked" was -radicalized- (or provoked) way back in 2019 when they witnessed some Arianator belittling Taylor during Lover era when Ari was doing better with tun. And vice versa, an arianator that "attacks" Taylor unprovoked was "provoked" by that same swiftie from before attacking Positions in 2020 when folklore was doing better, without realizing that Swiftie was just "retaliating" against the Lover / tun drama, which spurred from Sweetener versus rep at Grammys, etc etc etc. it just is a never ending spiral that can't even truly be pinpointed, so to act like we can assign blame to one side or the other is ludicrous.  

That's true, my comment was more about the type of comebacks Swifties adopt: the obsession with sales, awards, personal attacks etc. that are brought up every time they're arguing - even when the conversation has nothing to do with those things. It has a lot to do with the parasocial relationship they have with Taylor, someone said they're success stans but for me it's more than that, they're obsessed with her personal life.

 

When she releases a new album her fans are more concerned about linking the lyrics to certain events, buying physical copies and collecting sales than enjoying the actual music. Of course I'm not talking about all of them but I feel like these features really define the fanbase. 

 

If we talk criticism, I don't think they're less inclined to taking it compared to others, the fanbase is so large that you always find other people agreeing/confronting you about it kindly, and I've never been attacked on ATRL when I expressed my negative opinion. The issue, as you said, is when it's a stan war or people who get heated very easily are involved.

[Mephisto]

1 hour ago, PoisonedIvy said:

There's no reason you should be defined more by something you dislike as opposed to something you are interested in. 

 

I agree with this part. 

 

I wanna be defined by the things I love. Not the things I hate, the things I'm afraid of... 

[Junipero]

2 hours ago, KatyPrismSpirit said:

Honey, you Swifties tend to provoke non-fans and even casual Taylor listeners, to be honest. Whenever a female artist has an album out, you always see Swifties harassing said fanbase. It mostly starts with Swifties. You know why? Because there are so many Swifties out there on these pop forums/stan communities that use Taylor's massive commercial success and popularity as a shield to A) harass other artists (primarily Beyoncé and Ariana) and as a result uphold unrealistic expectations for women in the music industry to bash them if they don't fit that standard. I would say a very solid amount of Swifties are only into Taylor's accolades and commercial successes and not even the music. It's a sad reality, but the truth. Swifties tend to be aggressors in that sense. Just look at how y'all acted the week Eternal Sunshine and Cowboy Carter dropped.

 

 

This reminds me of when many Little Monsters abandoned Lady Gaga and went to become Smilers after the Roar vs Applause stuff. Nowadays that same group of smilers have left stan twitter long ago.

[Phaunzie]

Majority of Taylor fans are success fans, who when she flops for first time will bandwagon hate her then run to new and popping artist. I have no problem with the girls that like her music, it is the girls that wanna combat criticism of her music with bnk statments, capita and how popular she is.

 

If those Swifties would not be so antagonistic to other fanbase, those fan bases would not make smear campaigns on Taylor. Compared to the Beyhive and Little Monster, Swifties are more annoying because, y'all are constantly present and bottleneck all content into being about Taylor. The other two tend to stay in their spaces, Swifties will run into a Billie thread and start mess.  LMs and Beyhive at least criticise their faves, Swifties act like Taylor can do no wrong and infantilize everything she does. 

[family.guy123]

Ok? Start with yourself. Don't criticize others until your house is clean 

[byzantium]

3 hours ago, PoisonedIvy said:

The solution is simple: stop wasting so much of your time criticizing the things you don't enjoy.

I wish more people had this level of maturity. 

[byzantium]

21 minutes ago, Phaunzie said:

Majority of Taylor fans are success fans, who when she flops for first time will bandwagon hate her then run to new and popping artist. I have no problem with the girls that like her music, it is the girls that wanna combat criticism of her music with bnk statments, capita and how popular she is.

This is not true though.  Maybe it's the majority of fans YOU interact with but it's certainly not the majority.  Most Taylor swift fans could not tell you how successful one album is over another.  

[on the line]

1 minute ago, byzantium said:

This is not true though.  Maybe it's the majority of fans YOU interact with but it's certainly not the majority.  Most Taylor swift fans could not tell you how successful one album is over another.  

I'd also add most Swifties would rather she decline in popularity. It was a lot more fun to be a fan pre-Midnights. I wish TTPD was as bad and hated as much as the non-Swifties try to tell us it does.

[Gaia]

3 hours ago, Dear Reader said:

You can clearly see which swifties stan Taylor for her talent though. If you visit the TTPD thread, you can see countless posts talking about the music and not numbers and you can see which ones comment in music threads and the ones that only comment on the charts section and let me tell you the latter are a small number of them. A lot of swifties in this forum are here for Taylor and her artistry and music, from what I've seen. Those "stats" are only used in useless stan fights that end up being circles because a stan won't convince a non stan to become a swiftie and vice versa. 

If Taylor Swift did not have her stats she wouldn't have half the stanbase she does on ATRL. 
 

Theres a reason why her streaming tracking thread has over 100 pages.
 

There's a reason her releasing constant variants is celebrated for "making haters mad." 

 

There's a reason why her Stan's continue to push this "she has the most streamed album of the week!" In every BB200 thread ignoring her album has 31 songs. 
 

There's a reason why her fans are ok with the fact that she strategically holds shipments of variants until she needs them to stay #1.

 

You guys (as a whole) care ENTIRELY too much about her success, her being #1, her being "the music industry", etc. Hell you guys were stanning a concert movie because it did numbers in theaters. It's absurd the extent you guys Stan her success then say you don't care.

 

Like this album has been panned and dragged left and right but instead of seeing genuine opinions in this forum all non-fans see if Swifties spamming her weeks at #1 and selling 4M in a 2 months or however much she sold. It's all you talk about as a fanbase  

Edited July 4 by Gaia

[byzantium]

1 minute ago, on the line said:

I'd also add most Swifties would rather she decline in popularity. It was a lot more fun to be a fan pre-Midnights. I wish TTPD was as bad and hated as much as the non-Swifties try to tell us it does.

Honestly, I just want to be able to get tickets to a tour again.  

[on the line]

Just now, byzantium said:

Honestly, I just want to be able to get tickets to a tour again.  

Exactly. 

 

I am so grateful my friend had Lover Fest tickets so was able to get the 2nd chance offer to buy, and we ended up 5th row right in front of the center diamond. It was perrrrrrfect. 

[jesus del rey]

3 hours ago, PoisonedIvy said:

The solution is simple: stop wasting so much of your time criticizing the things you don't enjoy.

Sis maybe you should take your own advice and stop making these threads as if they are think-piece articles with your pretentious "disclaimer"  

[Daddy]

It's Swifties calling us basic for liking Charli XCX... like, look in the mirror.

[Dear Reader]

14 minutes ago, Gaia said:

If Taylor Swift did not have her stats she wouldn't have half the stanbase she does on ATRL. 
 

Theres a reason why her streaming tracking thread has over 100 pages.
 

There's a reason her releasing constant variants is celebrated for "making haters mad." 

 

There's a reason why her Stan's continue to push this "she has the most streamed album of the week!" In every BB200 thread ignoring her album has 31 songs. 
 

There's a reason why her fans are ok with the fact that she strategically holds shipments of variants until she needs them to stay #1.

 

You guys (as a whole) care ENTIRELY too much about her success, her being #1, her being "the music industry", etc. Hell you guys were stanning a concert movie because it did numbers in theaters. It's absurd the extent you guys Stan her success then say you don't care.

 

Like this album has been panned and dragged left and right but instead of seeing genuine opinions in this forum all non-fans see if Swifties spamming her weeks at #1 and selling 4M in a 2 months or however much she sold. It's all you talk about as a fanbase  

This is not true for most of the fanbase and no matter how many paragraphs you write, it won't make me change my mind. I've had endless talks with Swifties without talking about numbers. I'm happy she gets them and I celebrate when my favorite artist is number 1, yes, but I'd still be here for all these albums even if they landed in #10 or #20 in the charts. I like Taylor Swift's music and no matter how many times people call it basic, I'll see it as my favorite music and that's all that matters to me. 

[ChooseyLover]

What I see here is a lot of chit-chat about sales and not much appreciation for Pop culture in general.

There would be less hate if we focused on the latter instead of who's sold more than who. Haven't stuck around long enough to tell which fanbases are the ones that always start the competitive bs but I guess Swifties are strong contenders.

I do agree with you, we should focus on the things we like rather than the ones we don't. I'm trying to do that. Whoever disagrees with that is messy af.

Edited July 4 by ChooseyLover