dirrtydiana Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 minute ago, PoisonedIvy said: It's literally in the albums yall insist are bad. cardigan, august, ivy, cowboy like me, tolerate it, YOYOK, The Great War, Would've Could've Should've, I Hate It Here, The Prophecy, Chloe et al., etc. These are all career highlights from her four most recent studio albums. Literally some of her greatest lyricism and compositions ever. She is putting out some of the greatest music of her career but you others don't see it because yall aren't fans of her and you rush to call the albums mid without even diving into what the growth and talent we see in her songwriting and composition. Don't know about anyone else on this forum but I speak after a few listens. Needless to say, she's a pop star… I'm not going to applaud someone for doing their job especially if they make millions from it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoisonedIvy Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 2 minutes ago, Jay07 said: I appreciate your attempts at rational discourse but you realize her self-admitted obsession with constant commercial domination above all else doesn't help with being taken seriously as an artist instead of a product. 27 variants of an already overlong, bloated album. She's diluting her own brand. I take her more seriously than people that claim to not care about success, awards, or acclaim and then whine when they don't get it. Taylor getting upset at reputation missing an AOTY nom was never embarrassing to me because I already knew she cared about being rewarded for her work. Whereas Beyonce and Jay Z parading around the streets saying "f**k the Grammys" or Billie giving 20 interviews about how she doesn't care about the charts only for both to inherently prove their virtues to be hypocritical -is- something so unserious to me. At the end of the day these are their careers, and how they navigate them doesn't affect me — I am only here to consume the art. But I have more respect for the transparent honesty of Taylor than the pretentious piousness of others. I understand why others feel the inverse though. 2 minutes ago, dirrtydiana said: Don't know about anyone else on this forum but I speak after a few listens. Needless to say, she's a pop star… I'm not going to applaud someone for doing their job especially if they make millions from it no one is asking you to applaud her, if you don't like her music that's fine. But the girl is working harder than most other musicians, and the proof is in the pudding. You might not like what she's doing, but that doesn't mean she's not working hard. There's plenty of musicians that -don't- do their job. For whatever reasons. They're a great benchmark for us to distinguish the artists that work hard from the artists that don't. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirrtydiana Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 2 minutes ago, PoisonedIvy said: But the girl is working harder than most other musicians That's exactly my point: she's working a lot (as in quantity or long periods of time) and it does not mean she's "working hard." She's exploiting her advantages and maximizing her income with mediocre output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Cowboy Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 7 minutes ago, Bosque said: Not you getting offended because the words you put into quotation marks (which usually denote, surprise, a direct quote) were replaced by the actual words Lana said instead of what you wanted to put in her mouth. The original title was "Lana confirms Taylor's obsession with success". A mod then changed it to "Lana confirms Taylor's drive for success". I didn't like the mod's change, so I changed it again to the current title, so the current title is 100% my doing. Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrows Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 54 minutes ago, Jay07 said: Hm, not really. I can't think of any MPG that has such a single minded obsession with charts since probably peak era Katy. All the others have made moves that hampered their commercial prospects in the name of art. Gaga released Born this Way and alienated her straight audience. Beyonce could keep releasing Sasha Fierces but she released 4 at the height of the dance pop craze. Ariana won't even tour when that's where the money is and disappeared for 4 years to film a movie musical. There's only one person that is obsessed with becoming richer, no matter what. That's why I said it's so weird to see people stan greedy billionaires. But charts not the arts I guess. Well this would be valid if it wasn't for the fact that TTPD is the best work of Taylor's career. The fact that all the pop stans are the ones who don't like it because the songs aren't catchy enough or something proves that the album is, in fact, both for the arts and the charts. You'll never believe it, but I'll tell you anyway: 99% of fans love Taylor because they are genuinely moved by the art and intellectually stimulated by the storytelling and lyricism. You don't have to be, but we get to. All those other artists you mentioned are also insanely rich. Do you really think it's any less "weird" to stan Beyoncé because she's "only" worth 800 million? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosque Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Space Cowboy said: The original title was "Lana confirms Taylor's obsession with success". A mod then changed it to "Lana confirms Taylor's drive for success". I didn't like the mod's change, so I changed it again to the current title, so the current title is 100% my doing. Hope this helps Congrats on changing it so something resembling reality on your third try, I guess? Lana literally used the word "driven" so the mod was still much closer than you, but I'm sure you'll get the hang of how quotes work eventually Edited June 7 by Bosque 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoisonedIvy Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Just now, dirrtydiana said: That's exactly my point: she's working a lot (as in quantity or long periods of time) and it does not mean she's "working hard." She's exploiting her advantages and maximizing her income with mediocre output. Do you think her job is easy? Writing songs is hard. Composing songs is hard. Recording songs is hard. (Recreating existing songs is even HARDER and more tedious work.) Touring is hard. She has people to help alleviate the marketing, distribution, and business aspects of her job (just like every other label signed artist) but she's putting in that hard work daily. To diminish that is to disrespect the craft of all the songwriters and composers that give us music every year. Again, you cannot call something "mediocre" as if it's a fact. Music is subjective. I'm not going to sit here and act like it's a masterpiece because that is also not a fact. The only fact is that she makes music, and millions enjoy it and connect with it, at a higher rate than most other artists. She generates demand that she then meets with a larger supply/output than any of her peers. She is in an era of musical productivity unseen since Mariah's 90s decade or The Beatles' 60s decade. That is not easy work, if it was, other artists would be doing it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Cowboy Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 3 minutes ago, Bosque said: Congrats on changing it so something resembling reality on your third try, I guess? Lana literally used the word "driven" so the mod was still much closer than you, but I'm sure you'll get the hang of how quotes work eventually Someone's mad mad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asscatchem Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 8 hours ago, Kern said: this is kind of a hole that is never filled. She will never feel like the success she has at the moment is enough and that's the exciting part. she knows no bounds and is going to push new heights no one would have ever thought were possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirrtydiana Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 (edited) 9 minutes ago, PoisonedIvy said: Do you think her job is easy? Writing songs is hard. Composing songs is hard. Recording songs is hard. (Recreating existing songs is even HARDER and more tedious work.) Touring is hard. She has people to help alleviate the marketing, distribution, and business aspects of her job (just like every other label signed artist) but she's putting in that hard work daily. To diminish that is to disrespect the craft of all the songwriters and composers that give us music every year. Again, you cannot call something "mediocre" as if it's a fact. Music is subjective. I'm not going to sit here and act like it's a masterpiece because that is also not a fact. The only fact is that she makes music, and millions enjoy it and connect with it, at a higher rate than most other artists. She generates demand that she then meets with a larger supply/output than any of her peers. She is in an era of musical productivity unseen since Mariah's 90s decade or The Beatles' 60s decade. That is not easy work, if it was, other artists would be doing it. Which brings me back to my other comment: I'm not going to applaud a recording artist for… recording and please take your stan goggles off. Acts like pink and bey work a million times harder both in the studio and on stage for a fraction of the profit. Edited June 7 by dirrtydiana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoisonedIvy Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Just now, dirrtydiana said: Which brings me back to my other comment: I'm not going to applaud a recording artist for… recording No your core point seems to be that she is not doing hard work, but she is. All recording artists are doing hard work. The work they do is not easy. She's working even harder than most of her fellow recording artists. Doing more work = carrying a heavier work load = harder work. It's not like an office job where she's clocking in and getting overtime without actually doing work. THEN your analogy of " more work does not = hard work " would make sense. But she's working hard AND doing more work than others. It's a dual truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespertine Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 5 hours ago, Jay07 said: Hm, not really. I can't think of any MPG that has such a single minded obsession with charts since probably peak era Katy. All the others have made moves that hampered their commercial prospects in the name of art. Gaga released Born this Way and alienated her straight audience. Beyonce could keep releasing Sasha Fierces but she released 4 at the height of the dance pop craze. Ariana won't even tour when that's where the money is and disappeared for 4 years to film a movie musical. There's only one person that is obsessed with becoming richer, no matter what. That's why I said it's so weird to see people stan greedy billionaires. But charts not the arts I guess. I am a Gaga stan but I think you have it quite twisted. Gaga was ready for BTW to be the "album of the decade." She tweeted @ Carly saying she was coming back for her radio record. ARTPOP was going to "own" the radio that spring. She rush released Applause to compete with Roar. The entire lead up to the era was filled with stuff like Cake Like Lady Gaga about how she was the biggest top dog in the game. It's easy to say "oh but she was risky and alienated her audience!!!" after a decline happens. We wouldn't be saying that if it had paid off and BTW turned out to be even bigger than TFM. You're not really getting my point. I said they're like Taylor until they decline and start acting more humble. Ariana is actually a great example. She was scoring #1 debut after #1 debuts, and then Positions ended up performing just okay compared to TU,N and at that point the entire internet was making fun of her public persona/blaccent. She got much more lowkey after thaty. 5 years ago no one would've said she wasn't chasing success. She was selling autopen signatures to make sure her singles went #1. Taylor just hasn't actually declined that hard yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CovalentBondage Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 4 hours ago, dman4life said: Yes because there's been sooooooo many iconic performances from many different major pop girls besides Beyoncé within the last 15 years Almost every MPG has an iconic/legendary performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirrtydiana Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 4 minutes ago, PoisonedIvy said: No your core point seems to be that she is not doing hard work, but she is. All recording artists are doing hard work. The work they do is not easy. She's working even harder than most of her fellow recording artists. Doing more work = carrying a heavier work load = harder work. It's not like an office job where she's clocking in and getting overtime without actually doing work. THEN your analogy of " more work does not = hard work " would make sense. But she's working hard AND doing more work than others. It's a dual truth. Because she's not doing "hard work" at all. Especially now in the streaming era. What's not clicking? she doesn't have to be everywhere in the country promoting her work like in the 00s. It is not at all dual truth. To use your office analogy: she's sticking around the office longer than most others sitting on her desk watching her profit increase by doing the bare minimum. its SO insulting to see her fans claim this woman "works hard" when artists like Madonna, Bey, Doja, Gaga, Janet, Shakira, Dua, and Britney who literally worked and provided for her family since she was a literal toddler have actually worked their asses off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueTimberwolf Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 7 hours ago, dussel_06 said: Oh that's why she has the most AOTYs among any other artist in history and her albums are often listed as one of the top 100 greatest of all time. You're speaking as if she's a manufactured popstar like Britney, Bieber or those 90s 00s boybands when her music is more acclaimed than 90% of her peers. Her music is no different than theirs. She gets that extra acclaim for writing it herself (the lyrics, not really the music), and from whatever backroom promo she does. But at the end of the day, change the pronouns from female to male and have Harry Styles sing it and no one could tell the difference. Her music has very little depth outside of being an audio version of US Weekly. Listen the albums of the Lilith Fair ladies of the 90s, or even Lana and it's night & day in terms of risk, story telling, and boundary pushing. Her last album was 31 tracks of blah, the only song with any lasting impact was the random Kim K attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dussel_06 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Just now, BlueTimberwolf said: Her music is no different than theirs. She gets that extra acclaim for writing it herself (the lyrics, not really the music), and from whatever backroom promo she does. But at the end of the day, change the pronouns from female to male and have Harry Styles sing it and no one could tell the difference. Her music has very little depth outside of being an audio version of US Weekly. Listen the albums of the Lilith Fair ladies of the 90s, or even Lana and it's night & day in terms of risk, story telling, and boundary pushing. Her last album was 31 tracks of blah, the only song with any lasting impact was the random Kim K attack. Says who? You? Her last album may have suffered from Taylor Swift fatigue but that doesn't erase the acclaim she got from the music industry professionals who voted for AOTY 4 times, and her pop albums being regarded as one of the best in the all time lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dussel_06 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 9 minutes ago, dirrtydiana said: Because she's not doing "hard work" at all. Especially now in the streaming era. What's not clicking? she doesn't have to be everywhere in the country promoting her work like in the 00s. It is not at all dual truth. To use your office analogy: she's sticking around the office longer than most others sitting on her desk watching her profit increase by doing the bare minimum. its SO insulting to see her fans claim this woman "works hard" when artists like Madonna, Bey, Doja, Gaga, Janet, Shakira, Dua, and Britney who literally worked and provided for her family since she was a literal toddler have actually worked their asses off. What kind of logic is this? Does my understanding of english really that bad? Producing more work doesn't mean not "working hard"? What has quality have to do with it? Taylor has been hustling all her life since she was 13 years old promoting her music, writing her own music, ass-kissing radio djs, label staff, etc… Actually promoting her music and has done more tours more than anyone from her peers. And talking about quality, you listing artists with much much less acclaim music than hers. Like….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoisonedIvy Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 10 minutes ago, dirrtydiana said: Because she's not doing "hard work" at all. Especially now in the streaming era. What's not clicking? she doesn't have to be everywhere in the country promoting her work like in the 00s. It is not at all dual truth. To use your office analogy: she's sticking around the office longer than most others sitting on her desk watching her profit increase by doing the bare minimum. its SO insulting to see her fans claim this woman "works hard" when artists like Madonna, Bey, Doja, Gaga, Janet, Shakira, Dua, and Britney who literally worked and provided for her family since she was a literal toddler have actually worked their asses off. Streaming has nothing to do with the job she does. The creation and touring of her music is separate from the distribution that her label handles. Label executives are the ones that don't do hard work. They just push buttons and reap rewards of the labor they do not put in. Meanwhile songwriters, composers, performers, and recording artists actually dedicate their time, energy, and resources to creating new work and then promoting that. "Promotion" just happens to be touring these days as opposed to daytime television show performances. Beyonce also isn't doing talk shows or award show performances anymore, just like Taylor. All she does is tour. That's a privilege you earn after putting in the effort early on. Taylor put in that effort, she debuted in 2006 and did all the same types of promotion Britney did. Streaming didn't exist yet. To act like Taylor suddenly spawned 3 years ago and just started uploading things to Spotify is ludicrous. She has been working hard her whole career. The only person that was matching her consistency of output was Rihanna but (1) she has since retired and (2) she was never involved in the creation of her music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNulty Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 The Pennsylvania-born star has sold out her shows worldwide. She is second only to The Beatles with the most weeks at number one on the Billboard 200. Everyone's asking the same question: Why is she so popular? Her peers have an idea. "She wants it," fellow star Lana Del Rey told BBC News. The Born to Die singer was featured on Swift's 10th studio album Midnights, on the track Snow on the Beach. "She's told me so many times that she wants it more than anyone. And how amazing — she's getting exactly what she wants. She's driven, and I think it's really paid off." https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/music-news/taylor-swift-eras-tour-uk-lana-del-rey-1235917161/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugar-Rush Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 We been knew. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueTimberwolf Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 7 minutes ago, dussel_06 said: Says who? You? Her last album may have suffered from Taylor Swift fatigue but that doesn't erase the acclaim she got from the music industry professionals who voted for AOTY 4 times, and her pop albums being regarded as one of the best in the all time lists. So much of that is industry politics, Taylor was literally doing private concerts and filming whole documentaries to appeal to voters. But at the end of the day, I can't think of one song of hers that had a serious message, tackled a real world issue, sparked a conversation, became a real world anthem outside of her fanbase, potentially alienated an audience, spoke truth to power, amplified an unheard voice, nothing. Maybe "The Man"? "LWYMMD" was all about her, but I guess that's one? She knocking on the door of the Beatles sales wise, but the actual content of their songs shaped a generation. It wasn't just about the sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Ranger Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Oh Lana sweetie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittenCake Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 we couldn't tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent W Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 (edited) We can expect 6 new variants from TTPD or Reputa Tv on Lana's next album's first week now 🤭 Edited June 7 by Trent W 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dman4life Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 27 minutes ago, CovalentBondage said: Almost every MPG has an iconic/legendary performance. Katy? Billie? Dua? Ariana? Olivia? Kelly? Doja? Halsey? SZA? Lana herself? Are the iconic and legendary performances in the room with us? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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