base talk Which was the start of Gaga's downfall?

[JoeAg]

idk, hasn't happened yet. I'll get back to you in a few decades maybe 

[TROJAN]

She just had a sold out stadium tour.

[Archetype]

2 hours ago, Happylittlepunk said:

It's art pop. Alejandro was a huge hit. Born this way single, album, and tour were very successful. 

Culturally speaking, Alejandro was when the US audience started to turn on her due to the "blasphemy" and homoerotic nature of that video.  BTW was huge, but she had the momentum and massive fan base to shield herself from an already disinterested GP.  It was clear the GP wasn't here for her anymore by the time MTN was released as a single.  AP was just the confirmation of the damage already done plus the disastrous marketing for the album.

 

Liddos stuck around for the most part, but she lost a lot of the success stans during AP who turned into some of her most obsessive haters.

[Outlaws]

I would say her lazyness (or whatever it is that is holding her back) during/after Chromatica. 

 

Even during ARTPOP she was iconic and bounced back with her jazz album, Joanne, SuperBowl, Oscars performance.

 

But right now her career feels so... gray.

[Dante Silva]

I believe eyebrows were first raised when she did not release "Dance in the Dark" as a single.

 

The next mistake was allowing her self esteem to be negatively impacted by the BTW/ Express Yourself controversy as it later sent her down the wrong creative path on her next two solo albums as she sought to avoid that same dance/ pop style of production which ironically was the commercial lane most people wanted her to stay in.

 

Her next mistake was releasing "Judas" as a single as it was lacking.

 

Her next mistake was firing the "Edge of Glory" video director during the video shoot and taking over that role.

 

Her next mistake is the creative direction of the "Art Pop" album (a direct reaction that eventuated from the BTW/ Express Yourself controversy).

 

Her next mistake was her continued sonic experimentation on "Joanne" and working with Mark Ronson.

 

However, on "Chromatica" she finally found her way back to the dance beat and visual aesthetic combination that people wanted from her all along but a substantial amount of fans had lost patience with her after the BTW era and switched allegiance to various other artists in the time period that elapsed between the BTW and "Chromatica" era's and the artist who benefited most from this was Taylor Swift who at that point began to move beyond her country core to embrace the mainstream.

 

I think as the music audience have grown and there habits changed, they are only now starting to realize one of these artists has a natural charisma that was worth sticking with and the other one less so. Basically an entire generation backed the wrong horse and have only recently woken up and realized their error.

 

Edited June 5 by Dante Silva

[MonsterNavy]

4 hours ago, Pinkbutterflies said:

This thread gets made every other week.

in the last 10 years too

[JO1s]

2013 vmas

[BOAZ]

1 hour ago, Outlaws said:

I would say her lazyness (or whatever it is that is holding her back) during/after Chromatica. 

 

Even during ARTPOP she was iconic and bounced back with her jazz album, Joanne, SuperBowl, Oscars performance.

 

But right now her career feels so... gray.

Idk I would say she did pretty well after Chromatica commercially, a +100m$ sold out tour, an AOTY nominated last jazz album with Tony with an Emmy nominated tv special, the only other thing she released is Hold My Hand - which fared pretty good commercially and also got her another Oscar nod. I guess you're referring to her disappearing from the public eye.

 

I think we do too much on her, not everyone has to be the nearly inhuman level of workaholic that Taylor has. Just if you check her live performances list on Wikipedia she literally drained herself to the bone from 2008-2012. And also again in 2014-2017. Nobody could sustain that schedule 20 years into their career.

 

Some could say she should have milked Bloody Mary more cause it was pretty easy to do, but tbh idk if it's her team or more her not wanting to lose her artistic integrity. I can't believe nobody told her to release an official sped-up version on Spotify or remixes, cause everybody else is doing it, she probably refused herself.

 

It's clear she's not the type of artist that's always spitting out content and prefer to downscale her output for the sake of quality and to not lose focus on her health (don't forget she has a chronic condition), it's better if we get used to it.

[Sweeftie13]

CHAPTER 1: Born This Way era

With Alejandro she had launched an iconic hit, one of the best pop songs of recent years, however the video was very controversial from the bigoted part of the GP with the religious images and sexual images close to the gay world, there is nothing wrong with this but someone had started to get angry. Then Alejando was followed by Born This Way, a hymn to rights that is still played today, June 2024, in squares all over the world but even here the process of alienation of the GP got worse: from here listening to Gaga was officially stuff that was too LGBTQ+ and to teenagers unsure of other people's opinions on issues of heterosexuality (which unfortunately were the majority of Gaga's listeners when she had the cool factor of the TF/TFM era) didn't like this anymore + let's also add the Express Yourself controversy with the Queen of Pop Madonna, this also damaged her even if less than you might think. Finally came Judas, a high quality pop song still loved by everyone today (it has almost 800,000 daily streams on Spotify alone) but in 2011 the video and the Easter release created too much negative hype around Gaga: TEOG saved the "BTW era" but it was only a moderate top 10 hit, in normal situations without Judas it would have been as big as Someone Like You or Fireworks. Yoü and I was a moderate success in the US thanks to a new sound for Gaga and romantic lyrics, MTN was a colossal flop due to its excessive media exposure, a noisy sound and a video too long to break through in the Youtube era (i still love the song).

 

CHAPTER 2: 2012-2013

Finally we come to the cancellation of the final dates of the BTW tour, the breaking of her hip and the presence of Troy who was not a manager but a slaver: the ARTPOP album although it was a solid pop album was destroyed by a lead single, Applause, which had to clash with Katy Perry's Roar while she was coming out of her smash TD era and was at her commercial peak, then Gaga had strong disagreements with Troy and part of the label which led to right but poorly promoted single choices: the R Kelly fiasco and DWUW, GUY promoted too late, Gaga mentally ill and the lack of a video for Aura were the final steps in her fall from the role of the biggest pop star on the planet.

 

Could Gaga have made different choices? Surely... She could have made a different video for Alejandro, different album promotion BTW and more GP friendly images but this would no longer be Gaga she would just be another popstar like Kesha or Carly Rae Jepesen (with all due respect to them).

[Erreur2 La Nature]

?

Alejandro and BTW were both hits and were pretty loved by the public. 

[Jay07]

I hesitate to use the word downfall for someone who is still highly famous and successful but I would say her career shifted post-ARTPOP. Ultimately, I think what she's doing now is healthier for her physical and mental wellbeing but I wish we could get a little bit of the old Gaga back, the pop scene is so boring.

[king_queen]

Releasing Applause as a lead single and not G.U.Y. or Aura (Demo)

[єѕℓαм]

Commercially i would say after applause (?) even though that song that we shall not say kinda did well on the charts without a mv 

[MonsterNavy]

"downfall" also isn't the right word to use to what happened. her career just stabilized.

 

she's not gonna be on The Fame Monster and Born This Way level of fame, success & sales forever especially with how polarizing and controversial her music and whole image is.

 

 

Edited June 5 by MonsterNavy

[JoeAg]

@leyaris11 sorry honey turkey did i say something wrong?

[Sannie]

Ultimately, overexposure. When people like Katy and Nicki started trying to take a piece of her "weirdness" pie, people got tired of the schtick and began to move on. Naturally, trends changed and Gaga could not keep up since her "weirdness" was not a costume she threw on a la Katy and Nicki, rather an integral part of who she was at the time.

 

Thankfully her natural talent helped her transition away from pigeonholing herself and she is now an Oscar-winning icon!

[ericcartman]

Cracks were already showing with Born This Way but I guess official start would be after Applause had peaked

[Happylittlepunk]

2 hours ago, Sweeftie13 said:

CHAPTER 1: Born This Way era

With Alejandro she had launched an iconic hit, one of the best pop songs of recent years, however the video was very controversial from the bigoted part of the GP with the religious images and sexual images close to the gay world, there is nothing wrong with this but someone had started to get angry. Then Alejando was followed by Born This Way, a hymn to rights that is still played today, June 2024, in squares all over the world but even here the process of alienation of the GP got worse: from here listening to Gaga was officially stuff that was too LGBTQ+ and to teenagers unsure of other people's opinions on issues of heterosexuality (which unfortunately were the majority of Gaga's listeners when she had the cool factor of the TF/TFM era) didn't like this anymore + let's also add the Express Yourself controversy with the Queen of Pop Madonna, this also damaged her even if less than you might think. Finally came Judas, a high quality pop song still loved by everyone today (it has almost 800,000 daily streams on Spotify alone) but in 2011 the video and the Easter release created too much negative hype around Gaga: TEOG saved the "BTW era" but it was only a moderate top 10 hit, in normal situations without Judas it would have been as big as Someone Like You or Fireworks. Yoü and I was a moderate success in the US thanks to a new sound for Gaga and romantic lyrics, MTN was a colossal flop due to its excessive media exposure, a noisy sound and a video too long to break through in the Youtube era (i still love the song).

 

CHAPTER 2: 2012-2013

Finally we come to the cancellation of the final dates of the BTW tour, the breaking of her hip and the presence of Troy who was not a manager but a slaver: the ARTPOP album although it was a solid pop album was destroyed by a lead single, Applause, which had to clash with Katy Perry's Roar while she was coming out of her smash TD era and was at her commercial peak, then Gaga had strong disagreements with Troy and part of the label which led to right but poorly promoted single choices: the R Kelly fiasco and DWUW, GUY promoted too late, Gaga mentally ill and the lack of a video for Aura were the final steps in her fall from the role of the biggest pop star on the planet.

 

Could Gaga have made different choices? Surely... She could have made a different video for Alejandro, different album promotion BTW and more GP friendly images but this would no longer be Gaga she would just be another popstar like Kesha or Carly Rae Jepesen (with all due respect to them).

The gp was never going to last with Gaga for more than 2 albums anyway. Gaga was passionate about promoting and releasing born this way the album. Not too mention Alejandro ended up being one of Gaga most successful singles of her discography. Time ended up helping Gaga in the long run. 

[Queenyoncee]

She is over since 2014

[PoisonPill]

(hate myself for answering this...)

The earliest start was undeniably the Alejandro video. For the first half of 2010, she was on a seemingly endless upward trajectory and had the midas touch. Until then, her over-the-top antics seemed fresh and edgy to most people. She was on the biggest singles run for a new artist since Mariah, it felt like anything she dropped would be an instant smash and Alejandro seemed destined to be a song of the summer contender.

 

Then that music video dropped. It's the first time that people didn't seem impressed or shocked by her, but rather were rolling their eyes about her being a cringey edgelord and the tired use of Catholic imagery. It's also when the Madonna-copycat narrative began to take hold.

 

You could sense the tide turning in public opinion against her. She started getting more negative press throughout summer 2010, especially her appearance at a Yankees game which cast her as an obnoxious attention-craver.

 

Obviously Alejandro still did well, and she went on to have big debut with BTW. But the seed of her eventual downfall was planted with that damn music video, I'll die on that hill  

 

Edited June 5 by PoisonPill

[AvadaKedavra]

Here in Latinoamerica it was Alejandro  the song was a hit cause it was real catchy but everyone was horrified with her

All my classmates were from.......Woah she's amazing and unique with telephone-bad romance ............to............Omg she's weird. That so gay. She's satanic. She's doin too much.

Then she arrived with Born This Way and the protusions in her face and strange gothic glam metal aesthetic and it was over for her  
She carried the Hype from her debut era and the album was big but the era in restrospective was an Underperformance-Midperformance.
It was projected as a gargantuan lifechangin project and it was not (Commercially wise)
I think artistic wise this album changed the life of so many gays and people Worldwide.
The singles failed. Her image suffered and her hype went donw and the big hate from the Artpop era was breeding in this one.

It also didnt help how Adele arrived in that time and she was seen as "real artist" and gaga was seen as a clown with costumes and over-the-top dance music

Edited June 5 by AvadaKedavra

[supertiffany]

7 hours ago, Archetype said:

Culturally speaking, Alejandro was when the US audience started to turn on her due to the "blasphemy" and homoerotic nature of that video.  BTW was huge, but she had the momentum and massive fan base to shield herself from an already disinterested GP.  It was clear the GP wasn't here for her anymore by the time MTN was released as a single.  AP was just the confirmation of the damage already done plus the disastrous marketing for the album.

 

Liddos stuck around for the most part, but she lost a lot of the success stans during AP who turned into some of her most obsessive haters.

this

 

BTW lack the fun songs that TF/TFM had

 

where's the Bad Romance, even Just Dance is a better bop than most of the rock ballads of BTW 

[dirrtydiana]

oh wow i usually disagree with your takes but i came in here to mention those two particular singles 

 

her bitting off madonna like that since the alejandro (which was a cute tribute) then the final nail claiming madonna had given her permission via email to remake express yourself and allowing 99 cent album gate 

[Just a Gay on ATRL]

Disagree with OP - she was still snatching Top 10s left and right after "Alejandro" & "BTW"
 

I think it started to show with "Marry the Night" which was not a good note to end BTW era on with the GP (they didn't care for the song and the video was too long/convoluted). Then she doubled down on all the things that made the GP reject MTN with the entire ARTPOP era from start to finish. Ideas were too confusing and incohesive to follow for the average person and the music just wasn't as high quality as her best performing singles. MTN lowkey foreshadowed what was coming during ARTPOP.

 

 

[itshyolee]

10 hours ago, flower moon said:

they said the START

And they mentioned ARTPOP.