news Iraq criminalizes gay relationships; 15 years in jail

[MatiRod]

There is no religion that ever excuses this kind of disgusting homophobia

[Kassi]

6 minutes ago, Communion said:

Two posts right after one another of two radically different liberals trying to pretend they're under some shared umbrella to protect their class interests from evil leftists. 

 

"Europe has taken too much! You're asking too much of us!!!" "I'm just being pragmatic and suggest people go to the next closest neighboring location!!"

 

Both ideologically committed to terrorizing the Middle East and creating mass instability (both proud Israel supporters!) while ignoring reality:

I'm sure your perspective as a white man raised in a blue state in the richest country in the world is valuable, so I won't discount it.

 

But I think I can speak for African, Middle Eastern, and Latin American immigrants when I say that it's better to run than to die. How far you're able to go will depend on your health and means, but overall do not recommend waiting for the immigration queue in the US to clear up.

 

Any tolerant, secular (or Christian/Jewish) country should do for these persecuted gays in the meantime.

[Communion]

16 minutes ago, Kassi said:

but overall do not recommend waiting for the immigration queue in the US to clear up.

Sister, the empty identity politics do not work. As someone who would be speaking from experience, I thought you'd actually get your facts correct on immigration law and why Biden is being criticized, but I forgot you have amnesia wrt Genocide Joe.

 

Joe Biden - and thus the US - has only been mentioned in the relation to asylum and because somehow Western far-rightists think American progressives are hypocritical for not wanting the Middle East blown to smithereens. Anyone who is honest about US asylum laws knows that if you come to a port of entry, you are legally able to apply for asylum then and there based on your country of origin or claim. Asylum IS legal form of immigration. Many people who do so are those who have already traveled through other nations.

 

The criticism aired - in response to some lovely fans - is that I condemn centrist Democrats and Republicans for trying to make this necessary process illegal. You seemingly now - in fear for Biden's re-election prospects - think demanding the US do more for asylum is suggesting people not be logistical about how to actually get to safer nations, let alone not also demanding failing nations like Poland or Hungary step up after taking 0 refugees.

 

Ironically European far rightists are not even sure what they want to fight American progressives over.

First we're "Hamas lovers" for condemning Israel's genocide on Palestinians but then also our support for asylum is bad despite that the US increasing its asylum quotas would ironically act as a release valve for other nations and make the ease of the burden better for everyone. Where exactly do Europeans think those 2M Palestinian refugees will go and what tidal wave effect it will have in already crowded nations?

 

Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan have some of the world's highest refugee populations - why can't Poland, for example, ease that burden? Are you trolling when thinking one is suggesting that people stay in Iraq instead of first heading to another neighboring nation and making headway elsewhere? 

 

So European right-wing liberals just hate migrants more than to actually make their own lives better, while you seemingly hate anyone who criticizes Joe Biden more than to make people's lives better.

 

I sense a common theme. 

 

Edited April 28 by Communion

[lostcause]

On 4/28/2024 at 5:56 PM, Communion said:

 

Two posts right after one another of two radically different liberals trying to pretend they're under some shared umbrella to protect their class interests from evil leftists. 

 

"Europe has taken too much! You're asking too much of us!!!" "I'm just being pragmatic and suggest people go to the next closest neighboring location!!"

 

Both ideologically committed to terrorizing the Middle East and creating mass instability (both proud Israel supporters!) while ignoring reality:

 

 

Why are you posting charts from 4 years ago? Where did you source these? They all claim to be based on UNHCR data, but why not post current data from the actual source? Data is available right from the source, right here on the UNHCR site. Does your use of graphics (claiming to be based on data half a decade old instead of up-to-date primary source information) betray an agenda? You are as bias as you claim the quoted posters to be. 
 

As per UNHCR, more than half of the world's refugees come from three countries: Syria, Afghanistan, and Ukraine. 69% are hosted by neighboring countries. The top three host countries for refugees are Iran, Turkey, and Germany. Columbia and Pakistan round out the top five. Of these top five host countries, Germany is the only one that doesn't neighbor the lands these people are displaced from. Iran, Turkey, and Pakistan all share extensive borders with the top two countries responsible for the most refugees today.
 

 

[Communion]

19 minutes ago, lostcause said:

Why are you posting charts from 4 years ago?

Because reading a post requires also reading the post that post is responding to. 

 

I included data from the late 2010s, right before COVID, and as recent as 2023 to highlight how the claim that somehow Europe was overwhelmed by a refugee crisis is nonsense. A user literally claimed that Europe was overwhelmed by hordes of cishet Muslim men to defend the reality that Western criticisms of Middle Eastern nations are largely virtue signaling.

 

If Westerners cared about queer people in the Middle East, you'd be flying planes full out and helping them resettle into your nations. But even when the majority of Syrian refugees went to neighboring countries and most Syrian refugees have returned home, the general centrist liberal European sentiment is that accepting refugees is an attack on a nation. 

 

The vast majortiy of European countries did not take in meaningful numbers of refugees. Neither did most imperial powers in North America. Why is that? How can one claim to be outraged over the quality of life people experience yet not support the most immediate remedy to that in offering them a path to a new life somewhere else?

[Karla Cabello]

On 4/28/2024 at 11:05 AM, Kimbra said:

*Communion voice* American cultural pinkwashed nationalistic imperialism is to blame.

it is true tho

[Mean Trees]

So I gather this was posted to justify the bombing and murder of Palestinians I assume.

[Communion]

Also, I'm sorry, but I'm confused because 2024 data shows:

 

53 minutes ago, lostcause said:

Iran, Turkey, Germany. Columbia and Pakistan

that largely nothing has fundamentally changed since 2020:

Quote

Uganda, Turkey, Germany. Columbia and Pakistan

With Germany *still* the only European nation to make a meaningful effort to take in those in need of asylum and refugees.

At least in the scope of the how the rest of the Global South is forced to reconcile with political, economic and social instability, much of (but not all, of course) caused by the West.

 

So.. what new information or data exactly did you feel was missed?

The charts also in my post showed different understandings of current refugee populations - raw numbers (which you have also shared, largely unchanged), but also understanding the context of which nations are taking on an out-sized effort via % of population as refugees. This important to understand when seeing an American user defend US politicians trying to outlaw asylum as a legal form of migration and defending the logic of such by "lol just go to Lebanon", like as though nations are rubber bands that can be infinitely stretched.

 

Though very interesting to see what gets certain users out of hibernation (or logging in from one account to another? who knows!). 

[lostcause]

57 minutes ago, Communion said:

largely nothing has fundamentally changed since 2020:

57 minutes ago, Communion said:

Uganda, Turkey, Germany. Columbia and Pakistan

 

On 4/28/2024 at 5:56 PM, Communion said:

 

 

 

 

Thank you for laying bare how deeply flawed  your argument structure is. And so brazenly, too!

Statistics should only ever be used to inform one's point of view, never the inverse. Current data shows Germany as the country with the third most refugees, yet your original 2020 chart has it at a distant fifth.
Then in your response to me, you conveniently omit the top three countries in said original chart, and start your quote at fourth place with Uganda,  in a flimsy attempt to save face and manipulate fact to serve your predetermined beliefs. Your graphs are dated and shoddy, and your editing of the truth won't change that. 

 

To anybody who looks to @Communion for geopolitical clarity, please consider how readily they contort rhetoric to serve a predetermined agenda. These are not the tactics of a person arguing in good faith. They are not intelligent, measured, or well informed. This user has one rhetorical skill and that is obfuscation. Don't be fooled by it. 
we are having an important conversation here, don't allow the misleading, cherry picked, non-pertinent musings of this one bad faith users preset objective distract you from fruitful discourse. 

[Communion]

38 minutes ago, lostcause said:

Current data shows Germany as the country with the third most refugees, yet your original 2020 chart has it at a distant fifth.

Whatever point you're hoping to make is really unclear. No post was comparing nor quantifying the positions of the nations listed.

Whether Germany is #3 or #5 is a distinction you're making without a difference because Germany's action to take in refugees is not questioned.

 

The point was - and remains - to highlight the nations not listed. No one has criticized Germany; but the rest of Europe cannot claim Germany's altruism.

 

That you feel fine directly providing data that proves this criticism because you seemingly don't think there's anything wrong with it is the issue.

Why did Poland suddenly become an altruistic nation in 2022? Does a refugee's life really matter less depending on their skin color and religion?

 

	2021 - Raw	2021 - Rank	2022 - Raw	2022 - Rank	% Change
Germany	1,255,694	4th	2,075,445	3rd	65.28%
Poland	4,875	85th	971,129	8th	19820.59%
France	499,914	13th	612,934	13th	22.61%
UK	137,078	27th	328,989	20th	140.00%
Spain	122,539	30th	314,490	21st	156.64%

 

How does a nation that has proven It has the logistics to host nearly 1M refugees claim it was previously overwhelmed by less than 1% of that?

 

It seems you're suggesting I have some intention to downplay how many European nations have taken in Ukrainian refugees, seemingly unable to grasp that the entire point is the jarring difference throughout Europe with regards to what refugees are allowed based on their skin color.

Edited May 4 by Communion

[Aethereal]

another thread derailed.