dirrtydiana Posted February 24 Posted February 24 Only people who don’t take Britney blueprint spears seriously are the losers from SYG 2 3
vale9001 Posted February 24 Posted February 24 (edited) 6 hours ago, Tropez said: In the last 15 years, there has been a shift in pop music as a “legitimate genre”. What I mean is pop artists have started to be taken as serious artists by critics and the GP. Before 2009, pop artists were seen as nothing but corporate trash who have no talent, inauthentic, and commercial over substance. Most people in 2009 probably couldn’t imagine artists like Taylor, Gaga, Beyoncé, Dua, Rihanna, Billie, etc being showered with Grammy’s, critical acclaim, prestige from the GP or even an Oscar. Getting something like a Grammy was far, far more harder for a pop artist in a few fields a few years ago. But JLo, and Britney won’t be serious Grammy contenders any time soon. You would think someone with JLo’s various abilities, would be a strong EGOT potential. But no one can imagine JLo being a EGOT winner. ??? The grammy discourse could be a thing but most of the pop categories are recent. The fact "pop music is acclaimed" only from 2009 Is totally false and doesn't deserve explanations. The Reason taylor, Gaga and Beyoncé are more acclaimed than Britney and justin Bieber It's for a reason. Sorry Edited February 24 by vale9001
Jay07 Posted February 24 Posted February 24 In the Zone and Blackout are seen as pop classics and Britney already has a Grammy for Toxic? I don't see the point of this thread other than taking a cheap shot at Britney and at that, it failed. 7 2
jomarr Posted February 24 Posted February 24 4 hours ago, Triton said: Britney isn’t really involved plus she’s the utter definition of label puppet. Contrary to what ATRL wants to believe, Britney is indeed involved in her music and the way she would like to be portrayed: Britney scrapped the original vision of Nigel Dick in the Baby One More Time video and pitched the "school girl" themed music video. That decision eventually led to budget cuts (given that she was a new artist at the time) but still went on and do it. The wardrobe used in the MV did not cost more than 20 bucks a piece. The music video remains to be one of the most iconic music videos of all time. Britney conceptualized the entire music video for (You Drive Me) Crazy Britney conceptualized the Oops! I Did It Again music video Britney personally met with multiple artists and producers while developing "In the Zone" as a complete and 180-degree departure not only of her image but her music. She had significant creative inputs in the development of the album which is now considered as one of her greatest bodies of work. Britney fought with Jive executives to release both Me Against the Music and Toxic as singles. Toxic eventually paid off and became not only one of her most recognizable tracks but one of the most acknowledged and acclaimed pop track. Britney pitched the idea of being a secret agent and the nude-diamond scene in the Toxic music video and also conceptualized the music video for Everytime Britney executive produced Blackout, which is highly regarded as her best work and one of the most influential pop albums Britney conceptualized the Womanizer music video Britney was heavily involved in the concept of her most recent studio album "Glory" Aside from her debut album, Britney has writing credits in all her studio albums ATRLers keep on throwing names at Britney such as "label puppet" or "no involvement" or "industry plant" but the fact remains that without her inputs, she wouldn't be the pop star that she is right now. Of course there's lack of involvement during the Conservatorship period. You wouldn't expect her to put her career first when she is fighting to keep her kids. Also like what I previously mentioned, she is respected within the industry. Even the greats speak highly of her. May the misinformation now rest in peace. Amen. 12 2
Soda Pop Queen Posted February 24 Posted February 24 I'm sorry but Quote Most people in 2009 probably couldn’t imagine artists like Taylor, Gaga, Beyoncé, Dua, Rihanna, Billie, etc being showered with Grammy’s, critical acclaim, prestige from the GP or even an Oscar. baby, Beyoncé had already racked up something like 10 career Grammys by the year 2009 and would win a further 6 at the 2010 awards. I agree with you on the critical acclaim but not the awards. Pop stars have been getting showered with awards since the 80s. See MJ, Whitney, Janet, etc. There are even several popular acts with Best Original Song Oscars from back in the day. 1
Soda Pop Queen Posted February 24 Posted February 24 and no, Britney and J. Lo were certainly not the last pop stars to not be taken seriously by critics/public/industry. Far from it.
Eternium Posted February 24 Posted February 24 16 hours ago, Tropez said: Yeah, because she tends to lose or not get nominated. I am sure she would’ve been thrilled had she won Best New Artist like she wanted. The award is still seen as something desired by artists because they are voted by their peers. It’s not some fan voted award like the Teen Choice Awards which she tends to win. Grammy’s aren’t voted for by your peers Labels buy seats for voting power and then they use the votes to promote their biggest artists. I know the Hive knows this very well because they’d always bring up Matthew growing his label’s presence there. Britney came from an indie label and they were never going to go far at the Grammy’s. Her career gave Neil Portnow the power to jump to the head of NARAS and he tried to give her a Grammy (Best Dance Recording for Toxic) in exchange for performing/promoting there. She refused (she and Neil have bad blood) and openly told the Grammys they can kiss her ass and has denied multiple attempts to get her to perform. How does any pop stan not realize that award shows are all about politics? 15 hours ago, Popboi. said: You did NOT say Britney is forward thinking and Beyoncé is not. One just released an album embracing ball and house culture and reclaim some light to it as it’s often not seen as a genre originated by people of color - the same she is intending with country on act ii and possibly rock with act iii. The other released 9 writing camp’d albums that tackle relationships and sex pretty much all the way through, in a row. Her albums can be fun, often great, but let’s not act like there’s even one glimpse of forward thinking on a Britney album. I was a Beyonce stan until 2008. Beyonce got dragged for plagiarizing J. Lo with her first album. Her second album she tried to hop on the Spanglish trend to reverse her fortunes after her label lost radio power. Her third album was generic electropop. Her fourth album was an homage to the past, so that gets a pass. EIL was slow to trap-pop and had a Migos’d lead single. The Gift was late to Afrobeats. Renaissance was late to the house trend. And with Act II being Country and Act III being rock, it’s not like that’s new ground. None of that is forward-thinking. You can say that you like Beyoncé’s overall projects, but she has never been a forward-thinking artist and that’s okay. She’s an excellent trend-hopper and that has served her well. 15 hours ago, Triton said: Britney isn’t really involved plus she’s the utter definition of label puppet. Her recent posts don’t do anything to help command respect. JLo just accepts ANY shitty project and throws it out hoping something will stick, there’s no conviction. https://www.foxnews.com/story/payola-shocker-j-lo-hits-others-were-bought-by-sony.amp https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/tidal-fake-streams-criminal-investigation-underway-over-potential-data-fraud-in-norway/ Calling Britney an industry puppet when you openly stan an industry plant. We’ve heard JIVE’s ideas and there’s a reason they crashed and burned. Britney’s label fought for an animated Transformers video for Baby One More Time, Penelope Magnet featured on Me Against the Music, a collab with R. Kelly for the lead single of In The Zone, they didn’t want Toxic released at all, etc. They crashed and burned all of their artists and the only reason Britney made it through them is because she didn’t listen to them. 1
Trash Posted February 24 Posted February 24 Just because you don't respect them doesn't make it a fact, sis. 3
shakeyourbombom Posted February 24 Posted February 24 Britney made good albums - ITZ, Blackout and Circus were really good JLo? Serious? Are you serious?
XDNA Posted February 26 Posted February 26 Wasn't "Toxic" written and a demo recorded before Britney even knew it existed? What was her artistic contribution to it?
dirrtydiana Posted February 26 Posted February 26 4 minutes ago, XDNA said: Wasn't "Toxic" written and a demo recorded before Britney even knew it existed? What was her artistic contribution to it? you’re on a pop music forum and you don’t know how the basics of how the music industry works? This forum urgently needs to give a pop music and culture test during registration. she elevated the song, made it hers, gave it life artistically on stage with a persona and through visual art (this means music video since you seem to need the help). and finally, to quote Kesha, not writing doesn’t make her any less of an artist. A quick free lesson: many legendary singers famously didn’t write their hits. 3
jomarr Posted February 26 Posted February 26 6 hours ago, XDNA said: Wasn't "Toxic" written and a demo recorded before Britney even knew it existed? What was her artistic contribution to it? Her vocals and delivery. Those are artistic contribution. The concept of the music video is an artistic contribution. 1
Inverted Posted February 27 Posted February 27 On 2/23/2024 at 7:22 PM, XDNA said: Katy Pery is also not taken seriously as an artist. And Nicole Sherzer (SP?), Rita Ora, i'm sure there's more. Nicole Scherzinger (it's not really hard to spell: Sc-her-zinger) is definitely taken seriously as an artist. Look at the reviews of her performance in Sunset Boulevard. She's just not taken seriously as a pop star, but most pop stars are not unless they have the support of a crowd of gay men to push a different perception. On 2/23/2024 at 7:25 PM, Disconnect said: I think JLO should never be respected as a singer. She has literally stolen other people's vocals and songs and she became famous thanks to Selena so... Please stick to facts, not Internet fan fiction you saw on Twitter and YouTube. Jennifer Lopez has never "stolen" anyone's vocals or songs. Credited backup vocalists that are generously used on hooks is not theft. And you can't "steal" a song. Songs are shopped and sold by writers and producers. On 2/23/2024 at 8:40 PM, Triton said: JLo just accepts ANY shitty project and throws it out hoping something will stick, there’s no conviction. I like J.Lo and even I agree. She just works and works. If you want quality output, you have to find something in yourself, not take anything you get hoping to please others. On 2/23/2024 at 9:39 PM, Both Sides Now said: I disagree about Britney. Her impact on the industry has been broadly celebrated over the last few years. The dominant narrative is that she was unfairly scrutinised by a misogynistic industry and that we didn’t appreciate her contributions when we had them. While it might be a little overstated by her stans, I think Blackout and Toxic are two works that have clearly been revised by poptism. Jennifer is a much different place in the zeitgeist than Britney. She is sort of famous for being famous which isn’t what the ~culture~ is interested in now. Add onto that, poptism is tied up with social justice issues there are some iffy cultural appropriation moments in JLo’s music with and yeah… I don’t think people will really be sending up for JLo currently. I think your posts sums it up pretty well except the bolded part is an example of how perception rules over reality. If by "cultural appropriation," we're referring to Jennifer's urban era, let's not forget that she's a Nuyorican from the Bronx. If anything, her hits in 1999-2003 are the most on brand in terms of her background rather than her pseudo "Latin" music (she can't even speak Spanish fluently like most Nuyoricans) and her EDM/pop songs. On 2/23/2024 at 10:08 PM, BraveNewSeth said: Jlo… yeah. Nothing against her but it was always clear that music was just a vanity project for her. I guess TIMT is a good example of her artistic identity, but it’s too saccharine to really be taken seriously imo. Which is sad because it's really heartfelt and full of optimism, which I don't see much of and I like. Regardless of how saccharine, it wouldn't be taken seriously because it's tied to the name "Jennifer Lopez." On 2/24/2024 at 6:55 PM, shakeyourbombom said: Britney made good albums - ITZ, Blackout and Circus were really good JLo? Serious? Are you serious? The obsession with J.Lo. You're always in a thread to desperately diminish her. So sad.
Rico Shameless v2 Posted February 27 Posted February 27 On 2/23/2024 at 8:29 PM, Popboi. said: You did NOT say Britney is forward thinking and Beyoncé is not. One just released an album embracing ball and house culture and reclaim some light to it as it’s often not seen as a genre originated by people of color - the same she is intending with country on act ii and possibly rock with act iii. The other released 9 writing camp’d albums that tackle relationships and sex pretty much all the way through, in a row. Her albums can be fun, often great, but let’s not act like there’s even one glimpse of forward thinking on a Britney album. Wow. It’s so annoying you guys try to dismiss female artists for their lyrical content being mostly sex & relationships. Have you heard Renaissance? Great album, awesome album. Majority of it is about sex, her wealth and her relationship. There’s no grand condemn of Donald Trump and capitalism amongst its tracks. As was Beyonce. As was DIL, etc. And “9 writing camp’d” albums is something considering Beyonce likewise uses similar strategies to get her end product. And there’s nothing wrong with that because again many female artists employ it. 3
La Reina Posted February 27 Posted February 27 Britney and JLo aren't taken seriously due to their artistry being limited and one-dimensional. JLo has the Ashanti and Christina Milian theft accusations, Britney has Britney Jean and lipsyncing. They were both more about the celebrity and image instead of the artistry. "Poptismism" and articles full of historical revisionism by chronically online gays does not translate into real life acclaim and respect about serious artistry. People just bop to their well-built pop songs, which Britney admittedly has lots of. It's not that deep, not everyone has to be an "artisté" type of artist.
MattieB Posted February 27 Posted February 27 (edited) I think Britney wishes it this way, in fact i have a feeling she wishes she had never found fame, if that was a passing thought in 2004, its definitely a given now Thats why i dont add her to the flop category, is she really a flop if she doesnt care anymore Edited February 27 by MattieB
MattieB Posted February 27 Posted February 27 3 minutes ago, La Reina said: Britney and JLo aren't taken seriously due to their artistry being limited and one-dimensional. JLo has the Ashanti and Christina Milian theft accusations, Britney has Britney Jean and lipsyncing. They were both more about the celebrity and image instead of the artistry. "Poptismism" and articles full of historical revisionism by chronically online gays does not translate into real life acclaim and respect about serious artistry. People just bop to their well-built pop songs, which Britney admittedly has lots of. It's not that deep, not everyone has to be an "artisté" type of artist. This is a whole ass lie, the change in sound from BOMT to Blackout is literally a leap, she explored pop, pop-rock, rnb, electro-pop, whatever early morning was. She loved to experiment and that one thing ill give her credit for, especially in the zone, breathe on me, dont hang up, early morning, toxic, heaven on earth etc are not songs you typically hear on the radio, i remember christina saying she wouldve loved to do BOM 5
MattieB Posted February 27 Posted February 27 Taylor swift have been singing the same teenage bullshit, same subject matter literally since she came out, wheres her artistic growth? She writes her music but its been the same ol bs, you heard one you heard them all 1 1
Both Sides Now Posted February 27 Posted February 27 5 hours ago, Inverted said: I think your posts sums it up pretty well except the bolded part is an example of how perception rules over reality. If by "cultural appropriation," we're referring to Jennifer's urban era, let's not forget that she's a Nuyorican from the Bronx. If anything, her hits in 1999-2003 are the most on brand in terms of her background rather than her pseudo "Latin" music (she can't even speak Spanish fluently like most Nuyoricans) and her EDM/pop songs. Oh, I absolutely don’t disagree that it might be disingenuous to drag her for her image back then.
XDNA Posted February 27 Posted February 27 (edited) 21 hours ago, dirrtydiana said: you’re on a pop music forum and you don’t know how the basics of how the music industry works? This forum urgently needs to give a pop music and culture test during registration. she elevated the song, made it hers, gave it life artistically on stage with a persona and through visual art (this means music video since you seem to need the help). and finally, to quote Kesha, not writing doesn’t make her any less of an artist. A quick free lesson: many legendary singers famously didn’t write their hits. Artists create art, that's what being an artist is. Toxic was not created by Britney as I suspected, thanks for confirming that. The song would have lived on and been given to Rihanna, Nelly, Gwen and life would carry on. Since you're saying she was very involved with the music video I'll take your word for it, and give her credit for that. But music videos to me are such a small component of songs, so we can just have different opinions on that. About your quote, sure many legendary singers did not write songs, but they sang their songs live when performing. Just like playing a musical instrument is art, so is singing, because to a singer their voice is their instrument. However, Britney did not sing live so that doesn't apply to her. Britney is still one of the best performers and dancers of her generation. I just don't view her as an artist, but that is my opinion only of course, we can disagree. Edited February 27 by XDNA
Leptine Posted February 27 Posted February 27 People forget J.Lo started her career as actress then adventuring to music, with keeping in mind that, how many actors managed to have the same success with that kind of transition? Only in this board and stans twitter-tiktok J.Lo is constantly being dragged, I don't think that her not getting awards recognition means she is not being taken seriously in the industry when she has always worked with A list Hollywood actors, directors and producers.
Cap87 Posted February 27 Posted February 27 On 2/23/2024 at 7:16 PM, Tropez said: You can’t put Britney in the same level as Beyoncé. Beyoncé washes her is almost every aspect. As I said, this is something the GP, critics, and even the the stan world can agree on. Britney has sold way more records 2 diamond albums Where is Beyonce diamond albums
kataraqueen Posted February 27 Posted February 27 On 2/24/2024 at 1:19 AM, Eternium said: Britney openly dragged the Grammy’s and rejected them when they came to HER with an award. Let’s not act like she’s ever been there begging for awards like some artists. She’s never bought them and probably never will. Exactly. It's no coincidence that the first 3 moonmen she won were when the conservatorship had begun In reality, Britney should have a lot more prestigious awards. Luckily, the international ceremonies have always had her back.
Moonlight Nation Posted February 27 Posted February 27 1 hour ago, Cap87 said: Britney has sold way more records 2 diamond albums Where is Beyonce diamond albums How pathetic to use "16 CARRIAGES" 's performance as a drag when the other half of the double release rose to #1 this week, marking Beyoncé's 9th chart-topper in a span of 20 years (which extends to 25 years when considering her first #1 with Destiny's Child). I adore Britney Spears, but diamond albums and record sales aren't the only factors determining an artist's success and legacy. 1
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