base talk Does Taylor have a song as good as "Frozen"?

[G.U.Y.]

Just now, secretgarden said:

No and thank god she doesn't. 

That is the answer that those angry swifters shouting "she has 3,500 songs better than that" should give.

[Capris Groove]

Madonna choosing "Frozen" as the lead single instead of "Ray of Light" (which the studio wanted for obvious reasons) for her comeback album is never mentioned but it's one of the biggest risks she ever took. It could have sank the whole album. It did NOT sound like anything on the radio at the time. The fact that it smashed was incredible.

 

Anyone else would have played it safe.

 

So I gotta vote no.

[Maneater]

No.

 

But does she have songs that I enjoy more? Yes.

[G.U.Y.]

3 minutes ago, PoisonedIvy said:

folklore and evermore have a ton of complex melodies and themes. illicit affairs? mirrorball? peace? tolerate it? happiness?

The ingredients are:

1. Ethereal atmosphere

2. Intrincate but also catchy melodies

3. Universal theme on the lyrics

4. A vibey beat

 

Nelly Furtado used the recipe here:

 

 

[brenda-walsh]

14 minutes ago, G.U.Y. said:

Sonically, maybe. Lyrically, no. If she sung CS, she would sound as inauthentic as Rihanna on that Same Old Love demo.

well considering lyrical styles are completely different in today's time vs the 80s, pretty much any song modern song Madonna would sing would "sound inauthentic" 

[PrettyHurts]

you need to calm down 

[4Real]

Yes, several

[Arrows]

She has about 50-100 better songs

[Revolution]

1 minute ago, Arrows said:

She has about 50-100 better songs

which ones

[Arrows]

41 minutes ago, G.U.Y. said:

Her songs are often too "concrete" and usually don't have complex melodies or harmonies.

Frozen does not have “complex” melodies or harmonies.

[Arrows]

1 minute ago, Revolution said:

which ones

Whichever song I state will be denounced by you, so it will be pointless.

[GlamSlam]

[naval23]

cardigan is the closest thing to modern day Frozen

 

 

[PoisonedIvy]

34 minutes ago, G.U.Y. said:

The ingredients are:

1. Ethereal atmosphere

2. Intrincate but also catchy melodies

3. Universal theme on the lyrics

4. A vibey beat

 

Nelly Furtado used the recipe here:

 

 

Songs on Midnights have the ethereal atmosphere, the vibey beat, the universal themes, and the intricate but catchy melodies you’re talking about though. Songs like Lavender Haze, Maroon, Snow on the Beach, You’re On Your Own Kid, Midnight Rain, Labyrinth, and Dear Reader all meet all four of those criteria. 

 

(mind you, I wouldn’t personally call Frozen “catchy,” I think a key component of its greatness is that it goes against popular melodic structure.) 

 

So whether you use the four components in your recipe or the qualities I listed when I named folklore & evermore songs of that caliber, it’s clear that Taylor -does- have songs on par with Frozen (at least, songs that an argument can be made for) (no I don’t think -some- of the Midnights songs i named qualify as better songs, but I was just pointing out that they meet your criteria)

Edited November 8, 2023 by PoisonedIvy

[Sweeftie13]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[naval23]

37 minutes ago, Capris Groove said:

Madonna choosing "Frozen" as the lead single instead of "Ray of Light" (which the studio wanted for obvious reasons) for her comeback album is never mentioned but it's one of the biggest risks she ever took. It could have sank the whole album. It did NOT sound like anything on the radio at the time. The fact that it smashed was incredible.

 

Anyone else would have played it safe.

 

So I gotta vote no.

This and the fact it was a 6 minute+ song as a lead single is insane

 

It's amazing how much it smashed globally - I mean 11 weeks at #2 on the European Hot 100 behind "My Heart Will Go On" and among the top 5 biggest European smashes of 1998, along with a #2 peak in US

 

 

[PoisonedIvy]

I will say Taylor hasn’t truly tapped into any existentialist or nihilistic lyricism, and that’s what I think is so beautiful about Frozen and Ray of Light as an album.
 

epiphany, Nothing New, Castles Crumbling, happiness, evermore, and this is me trying are kind of the closest we’ve gotten so far. I hope we can get a lot closer.

Edited November 8, 2023 by PoisonedIvy

[M!X]

not yet but Madonna was 39 year old mother at that point, she had a much different pov on life in general than Taylor does now so the lyricism and production were just matching with her maturity and her personality

 

I honestly think Taylor can pull of an amazing album like Ray of Light in the future, not sure if she will go the Madonna route and experiment with the sounds tho, but her own Blue might come one day 

[Alongoria13]

What makes Frozen so good besides everything that has been told is the whiplash you receive when you play her singles in order and you go from Another Suitcase in Another Hall to the intro of Frozen, it's such an amazing transition Taylor has failed to do since she doesnt leave the core of her sound at all.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Alongoria13

[Bussea]

yes?

[wastedpotential]

My pick. There's no way to mediate between the "Madonna is overrated and Taylor is better" and the "Taylor is a talentless upstart who will never compare to Madonna" camps, but I think Cardigan is Taylor's equivalent to Frozen. It's a very different song and was successful in a very different way (DOA on radio but a mega streaming sleeper), but there are similarities in just how abnormal the structure is, in the promotion, and in the (nearly) universally agreeable high quality. 

[G.U.Y.]

7 minutes ago, wastedpotential said:

My pick. There's no way to mediate between the "Madonna is overrated and Taylor is better" and the "Taylor is a talentless upstart who will never compare to Madonna" camps, but I think Cardigan is Taylor's equivalent to Frozen. It's a very different song and was successful in a very different way (DOA on radio but a mega streaming sleeper), but there are similarities in just how abnormal the structure is, in the promotion, and in the (nearly) universally agreeable high quality. 

The lyrics are too mundane to be compared to Frozen. It's a country song with different instrumentation.

Vintage tee, brand new phone
High heels on cobblestones
When you are young, they assume you know nothing
Sequin smile, black lipstick
Sensual politics
When you are young, they assume you know nothing
But I knew you
Dancin' in your Levi's
Drunk under a streetlight, I
I knew you

[The Next Day]

Why is the majority in here arguing about Taylor having a song that is like Frozen? That's not the question. Frozen and All Too Well are completely different and yet I would argue they're 2 of the best break-up songs ever written. 

[Aramis]

[Badgalbriel]

All To Well and Cardigan, tbh. 

My Tears Ricochet is also a contender.