base talk GUTS out of the top 10 after 7 weeks. SOUR did 55. What happened?

[sourprint]

1 minute ago, Klein said:

Now, Olivia's touring power is great. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking Olivia could have sold out two WEMBLEYs in her debut year, which is why she is not even attempting it once for the GUTS tour 

ok but why was there almost 100.000 people in the online queue for uk sour tour dates mmh?

[Klein]

Just now, sourprint said:

ok but why was there almost 100.000 people in the online queue for uk sour tour dates mmh?

Even if that was 100k true people, two Wembleys is at least 150k 

[sourprint]

1 minute ago, Klein said:

Even if that was 100k true people, two Wembleys is at least 150k 

are you trying to argue olivia being bigger than billie in the uk? at least comparitively shes bigger, since she started her career much later and the spotlights have been slightly shining on her since the start of the pandemic, billie was a thing in the west since her 2017 era

 

literally check sour + guts certifications, fan events, etc she will tour wembley before billieidk why but the brits love her so much, and whilst the uk's is still billies second biggest market i just feel like shes bigger

[sourprint]

olivias dating an english man, shes much more loved by the afternoon tea country than billie thus its no wonder she will sold out wembley before billie

[Klein]

4 minutes ago, sourprint said:

are you trying to argue olivia being bigger than billie in the uk? at least comparitively shes bigger, since she started her career much later and the spotlights have been slightly shining on her since the start of the pandemic, billie was a thing in the west since her 2017 era

 

literally check sour + guts certifications, fan events, etc she will tour wembley before billieidk why but the brits love her so much, and whilst the uk's is still billies second biggest market i just feel like shes bigger

I'm not arguing anything about Olivia vs Billie. If I gave my two cents on the matter I'd say Billie seems to be bigger since she's getting more streams.

 

All I was doing was reacting to your claim that Olivia could book 2 Wembley stadiums within her debut year, which is delusional. She probably couldn't even do that for the GUTS tour (I think one would be possible, but definitely not two). 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Klein

[Hiatus]

[wish]

The fumes today sdjkjshkdj

 

[Katamari]

1 hour ago, Hey Dude said:

Super model-lie

 

 

[Enrique523]

On 11/5/2023 at 7:53 AM, Aurora said:

The Billie stans getting brave as if Happier Than Ever wasn't more of an underperformance all the while having more singles than SOUR and GUTS combined.  At least Olivia got a #1 out of her so-called "sophomore slump" era. The album is also a huge quality upgrade from SOUR's more juvenile themes, so I am looking forward to seeing where she goes next. SOUR had debut hype. You can't recreate that on a second album.

Oh please, i've seen WAY more Olivia stans going after Billie than the other way around 

[Enrique523]

On 11/4/2023 at 8:39 PM, naval23 said:

Fearless did 58 weeks initially and Speak Now did 15.

 

It's part of the slump.

 

GUTS could very well enter the top 10 again later too

Speak Now debuted with over 1M+, GUTS debuted with 300K. Not the same situation at all 

[naval23]

3 hours ago, Enrique523 said:

Speak Now debuted with over 1M+, GUTS debuted with 300K. Not the same situation at all 

exactly both had bigger first week sales than the previous era 

[Gladiator]

I was excited for Guts and I listened to it pretty exclusively the weekend it was released, but I have hardly revisited it since. 

[liquiddiamonds]

Mess lets remember Billie and Olivia are friends

[Klein]

2 hours ago, naval23 said:

exactly both had bigger first week sales than the previous era 

1) Speak Now is a 3rd album, not a 2nd. Fearless is Taylor's sophomore album

2) Let's not equate 295k -> 302k (+2%) and 592k -> 1.047M (+77%) 

[Enrique523]

4 hours ago, naval23 said:

exactly both had bigger first week sales than the previous era 

Barely in Oliva's case, only a few thousand more, which is pratically nothing. Taylor in comparison did WAY more.

[John Slayne]

before the album was released the gays on here INSISTED that she was already an established MPG. i don't think the numbers are bad, but compared to Sour it is a big slump and seems like her novelty is wearing off. she's in danger of flopping with her next album unless she switches it up.

[liquiddiamonds]

45 minutes ago, Klein said:

1) Speak Now is a 3rd album, not a 2nd. Fearless is Taylor's sophomore album

2) Let's not equate 295k -> 302k (+2%) and 592k -> 1.047M (+77%) 

The main point of the comparison that user did had nothing with first week numbers at first. Speak Now spent much less weeks than Fearless inside the top 10 (15 in comparison to 58) and no one here would dare to call it a flop (although many did call it local and were wrong for it). ATRL did something similar with HTE and that album is still thriving. You can never tell with streaming and loyal fanbases…
 

In the current climate 300k is nothing to look down upon. Literally only Taylor, Beyonce, Adele and SZA have achieved it this decade besides Olivia. All of them were established artists, with only SZA also having something yet to prove when she did it (with an album double the track length of GUTS, but with little pure sales, so still massive af). But I understand most of the drags are because previous users were cocky about Olivia’s place in pop music having a major debut era

Edited November 7, 2023 by liquiddiamonds

[Beyonnaise]

Billie being brought up on every page when the thread wasn’t about her, scream

 

Know you that ***** when you cause all this conversation

 

[Sabrina Carpenter]

the way everyone moved on after just a month 

[Harsh2256]

Also this year was much more competitive than 2021 for the albums chart.

[Klein]

4 hours ago, liquiddiamonds said:

The main point of the comparison that user did had nothing with first week numbers at first. Speak Now spent much less weeks than Fearless inside the top 10 (15 in comparison to 58) and no one here would dare to call it a flop (although many did call it local and were wrong for it). ATRL did something similar with HTE and that album is still thriving. You can never tell with streaming and loyal fanbases…

Speak Now might have spent less weeks in the top 10 than Fearless, but ended up being 7X Platinum eligible. And while obviously not being considered a flop, it was always considered as an "underperformance" because it didn't have any hit song. 

 

I agree that with streaming, you can't really know how things will change. But with the current trajectory, I don't see GUTS coming anywhere close to 7X Platinum and I really don't think the comparison of SOUR -> GUTS / Fearless -> Speak Now is fortunate nor fair to Olivia at all.

 

Generally speaking I think Taylor and Olivia have a VERY different career and I'm not sure there's any comparison point between the two. If anything, Olivia's career is more following a Gaga trajectory as of now: a monster debut era, followed by a successful but less dominating era. 

[AaronBryceSufjan]

maybe lives want this sophomore album to end Billie's HTE so bad that it worked out in an opposite way...

[liquiddiamonds]

 

4 hours ago, Klein said:

Generally speaking I think Taylor and Olivia have a VERY different career and I'm not sure there's any comparison point between the two. If anything, Olivia's career is more following a Gaga trajectory as of now: a monster debut era, followed by a successful but less dominating era. 

If we are going to bring details that make the situations truly completely different than both the Taylor and the Gaga comparisons make Olivia zero favors, because these are analogies completely removed from where the industry is currently at in 2023. GUTS won’t ever be 7x Platinum. heck as massive as SOUR was that one is still sitting at 5x Platinum, because the industry has changed much from Taylor’s and Gaga’s first decade. 
 

GUTS is one of the very few female albums released this year already eligible for platinum in the United States.  So far we have:

 

- Endless Summer Vacation

- Mañana Sera Bonito

- Speak Now (TV)

- GUTS

- 1989 (TV)

 

Even if we were to count Midnights and SOS as 2023 smashes, and anticipate Doja as a future contender with Scarlet and its two hits, it’s still a very short list. Sans Taylor GUTS is the quickest release to reach the milestone this year, with Olivia being the youngest and least established of them. It will get to 2x Platinum quicker than the other two girls, too, once the tour kicks off. This is, rather unfortunately, the current climate in the music industry. I, again, understand the underperforming claims based on SOUR and expectations she would have a bigger second era (when so many MPGs have also failed at that). But nowhere in planet Earth will labelheads consider Olivia over or a flop like this thread wants it so much, because the industry is in the pits and she’s still making numbers most are not touching, especially the girls from her generation (even when they are featured in huge promo opportunities like The Eras Tour, see Sabrina Carpenter and Gracie Abrams, whose album didn’t even see the B200 top 50). 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by liquiddiamonds

[Klein]

44 minutes ago, liquiddiamonds said:

But nowhere in planet Earth will labelheads consider Olivia over or a flop.

I never said that. 

 

5 hours ago, Klein said:

Olivia's career is more following a Gaga trajectory as of now: a monster debut era, followed by a successful but less dominating era. 

There is no specifics here. I'm just talking about career trajectory. And I simply meant that Olivia's career trajectory (so far) is more akin to Gaga's than Taylor's. That's it. 

 

In no way shape or form did I suggest Olivia is a flop. Saying GUTS is an underperformance compared to the standards SOUR set is not saying GUTS is a flop. The same way 30 is definitely not a flop, but a clear underperformance compared to 25. 

 

Every artists have underperformances (relative to their own standards) and it never stopped them from rebouding. Taylor rebounded after Speak Now, Beyoncé rebounded after 4, Rihanna rebounded after Rated R etc... 

[liquiddiamonds]

Just now, Klein said:

In no way shape or form did I suggest Olivia is a flop. Saying GUTS is an underperformance compared to the standards SOUR set is not saying GUTS is a flop. The same way 30 is definitely not a flop, but a clear underperformance compared to 25.

It was not you but the thread. I mentioned that. And having a smaller second era is not really a Gaga thing, unfortunately it has happened with most of the females this website stans. I think the fact they had a stronger celebrity than Olivia softened the feeling, but exponential growth is truly the exception.