base talk Is there any singer who can reach the level of MJ, Madonna & Britney fame?

[Ron Ng]

3 minutes ago, She-Rah said:

 

So was Paris Hilton, Ana Nicole Smith etc, that is called being infamous. We were talking of career peaks as an artist. She was literally referred to as a train wreck when she got with kfed in 2004(?) she was everywhere because she was walking into gas stations bathrooms barefoot and driving with her son on her lap. I wouldn’t consider that anyone’s peak more like rock bottom to be frank.

Those you named never got that much attention as Britney did at that time, I mean not even a half, and this thread is about the level of fame of a pop star. If you talked about career peak as an artist, Whitney, Celine, Mariah, Beyonce, Adele, Taylor would be counted

[Squall]

The Britney sneaking

[Welovetrouble]

8 hours ago, Storm653 said:

Lady Gaga was not huge in Africa by any metric. I'd even argue that Taylor has a bigger presence there than Gaga. 

 

Gaga at her peak was bigger in Latin America(where my parents are from) but Taylor especially today is not far behind her. Mexico, Brazil, and Argentina are some of her strongest markets and I have cousins in Central America that are big time Swifties. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lady Gaga was humongous in Nigeria and Ghana and I would know I lived there, Taylor isn't even that known there

[WildHeart]

8 hours ago, JaXXXon said:

Nope. I can tell you I lived through all four peaks (Britney, Gaga, Adele and Taylor) and Taylor is dead last in terms of overseas except for Anglosphere, China and the Philippines. 

Taylor on Spotify charts yesterday 

 

Germany - #1

Netherlands - #1

Belgium - #1

Austria - #1

Denmark - #2 (#1 international) 

Sweden - #2 (#1 international) 

Norway - #1

Portugal - #1

Switzerland - #1

 

Indonesia - #1

Singapore - #1

Malaysia - #1

Thailand - #3 (#1 international) 

Taiwan - #3 (#1 international) 

Hong Kong - #2 (#1 international) 

Saudi Arabia - #1

UAE - #1

 

 

Brazil - #7 (#1 international) 

Mexico - #12 (#1 international) 

Argentina - #9 (#1 international) 

Chile - #13 (#1 international) 

Peru - #10 (#1 international) 

[Death & Decay]

Britney is a legend but I don't think she's up there with MJ.

[BabyBenzz]

Taylor Swift is right there, her succes is being compared to The Beatles for god's sake. Britney, as big as her peak was, was never near MJ/Madonna though

[Rv1709]

IMO Taylor Swift has already surpassed Britney 

[DanceAgain]

Level of Fame? There is a **** load of Artists that are huge Megastars that are just as known on every continent & are household names that have huge media presence and make the headlines were ever they go etc

.

Artists like 

Beyonce, Rihanna, Shakira, JLo, Lady Gaga, Mariah Carey, Taylor, Etc are all Megastars that are So famous they will never not be, Britney is one of the most Famous women in entertainment but for her Personal life and all the messy headlines.

 

Musically I can only think of 

Beyonce & Taylor Swift & Adele that make all the headlines soley for there music, There impact and the record breaking achievements, Britney doesn't have that type of clout in the media, her names associated with tabloid fodder.

 

 

 

 

 

[HïFidelity]

No, but close. To be clear, I don’t think Britney was as famous socially and culturally as Madonna, and no where near Michael.

 

i don’t think the current generation of pop stars will generate a star of this magnitude, though. They’re all concerned with being relatable and IG famous which really eliminates the mysterious nature associated with mega stars. 

[KatyPrismSpirit]

Taylor is much, much more famous than britney ever was. Please

[Storm653]

6 hours ago, Yuanyu said:

'if we're strictly talking about global fame and not music quality, influence, or likeability'

The mental gymnastics you do is worthy of study. 

Is that not the topic though?

 

Britney has zero business being lumped in with MJ and Madonna if we're talking about music quality, influence, and acclaim. 

 

She's lumped in with them because of her global fame as a celebrity and icon, no? 

 

 

[Avenger]

Fighting over MJ's fame is not a thing to be quite proud of, his life was destroyed because of it. Britney is well within her own league and was one of the most famous person back then and nothing good happened from it today Britney is alive and gonna become a NY best seller! 

[Storm653]

7 hours ago, Avenger said:

The thread was about fame, but yes you do have a point.

I experienced Britney's peak as a music fan in real time. 

 

And I vividly remember tons of people not taking her seriously as an artist and seeing her as a manufactured pop star full of tabloid fodder.  And Christina/Avril got praised for being the "anti Britney" in pop culture and being seen as more authentic artists. 

 

Even when she had that infamous meltdown in 2007, the GP treated it like a circus show. Dr. Phil tried to take advantage of the situation for ratings, the kid who screamed "Leave Britney Alone!" became one of the Internet's first viral memes, and even iCarly(a kid's show) made an episode lowkey mocking Britney.

 

I know Madge and especially MJ were spectacles to an extent as well(Madonna protests, "Wacko Jacko") but people still praised their music. I didn't really recall people outside pop fans praising Britney's music like that. By contrast, as much as they get clowned on ATRL, tons of non-pop fans and "Dad Rock" types praise Lady Gaga, Taylor Swift, and Beyonce for their level of talent and music. 

 

I'm gonna get thumbs down for saying this but, as someone who's actually lived through it, it's true. And I still think Britney is underrated in that aspect because the recent praise for her seems to come more from her story and sympathy for her traumatic experiences than her musical talent and impact. Britney was actually a decent performer in her prime and was fairly consistent in retrospect pre-Britney Jean. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Storm653

[Avenger]

24 minutes ago, Storm653 said:

I experienced Britney's peak as a music fan in real time. 

 

And I vividly remember tons of people not taking her seriously as an artist and seeing her as a manufactured pop star full of tabloid fodder.  And Christina/Avril got praised for being the "anti Britney" in pop culture and being seen as more authentic artists. 

 

Even when she had that infamous meltdown in 2007, the GP treated it like a circus show. Dr. Phil tried to take advantage of the situation for ratings, the kid who screamed "Leave Britney Alone!" became one of the Internet's first viral memes, and even iCarly(a kid's show) made an episode lowkey mocking Britney.

 

I know Madge and especially MJ were spectacles to an extent as well(Madonna protests, "Wacko Jacko") but people still praised their music. I didn't really recall people outside pop fans praising Britney's music like that. By contrast, as much as they get clowned on ATRL, tons of non-pop fans and "Dad Rock" types praise Lady Gaga, Taylor Swift, and Beyonce for their level of talent and music. 

 

I'm gonna get thumbs down for saying this but, as someone who's actually lived through it, it's true. And I still think Britney is underrated in that aspect because the recent praise for her seems to come more from her story and sympathy for her traumatic experiences than her musical talent and impact. Britney was actually a decent performer in her prime and was fairly consistent in retrospect pre-Britney Jean. 

I do agree with you, because I’ve seen her fame myself been her fan since I was 4 (98) and Britney was everywhere for better or for worse she was inescapable. But here on ATRL people don’t seem to believe that and I don’t argue where there is no conclusion. 

[adylovestaylorandjb]

Madonna never reached mj level of fame. The worship he had among masses in corners of the world. Madonna was massive but still way short of mj level of fame at peak. 

 

Taylor's fame is as impressive because during social media, there are countless sources of entertainment and celebrity compared to eighties, Where you could become star by heavy tv rotation.. Ofc their art and music videos played role. Taylor doing it in this era and maintaining is as impressive, if not more

[BILLIONAIRE✘BOY]

9 hours ago, ontherocks said:

Gayle 

[PinkLamborghini]

Bey is up there with Madge and MJ.

Edited October 26, 2023 by PinkLamborghini

[JaXXXon]

13 hours ago, Artistofthedecade said:

Taylor on Spotify charts yesterday 

 

Germany - #1

Netherlands - #1

Belgium - #1

Austria - #1

Denmark - #2 (#1 international) 

Sweden - #2 (#1 international) 

Norway - #1

Portugal - #1

Switzerland - #1

 

Indonesia - #1

Singapore - #1

Malaysia - #1

Thailand - #3 (#1 international) 

Taiwan - #3 (#1 international) 

Hong Kong - #2 (#1 international) 

Saudi Arabia - #1

UAE - #1

 

 

Brazil - #7 (#1 international) 

Mexico - #12 (#1 international) 

Argentina - #9 (#1 international) 

Chile - #13 (#1 international) 

Peru - #10 (#1 international) 

Oh honey. You're giving me the stats of current Spotify charts when this is about overall achievements in those countries.

 

Taylor has sold less units in those European territories than Gaga.

 

This is Swift's European peak: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midnights#Certifications_and_sales

 

This is the beginning of Gaga's downfall: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_This_Way_(album)#Certifications_and_sales

 

That's when people were saying Gaga was underperforming yet she was still certified twice as much as Taylor's Midnights in Europe. Should I post iTunes Charts from 2011 and compare them to Taylor or??? I don't know what you're implying. Taylor is currently the biggest female around but in total consumption in units and single charts she's behind Gaga outside of America. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by JaXXXon

[Raver]

Taylor Swift 

[WildHeart]

3 minutes ago, JaXXXon said:

Oh honey. You're giving me the stats of current Spotify charts when this is about overall achievements in those countries.

 

Taylor has sold less units in those European territories than Gaga.

 

This is Swift's European peak: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midnights#Certifications_and_sales

 

This is the beginning of Gaga's downfall: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_This_Way_(album)#Certifications_and_sales

 

Should I post iTunes Charts from 2011 and compare them to Taylor or??? I don't know what you're implying. Taylor is currently the biggest female around but in total consumption in units and single charts she's behind Gaga outside of America. 

You are not making any point with comparing decade old sales to 12 months sales. 

 

Again, how is Taylor's peak exclusive to Anglosphere, China and Philippines when she is massive in mainland Europe, Latin America and rest of Asia as well? 

 

Taylor sold 13M units outside of the US last year. She will sell ~25M this year and probably another 25M next year. This is equal to Gaga's career total units in only 3 years 

 

This is exactly how Gaga's Latin America leg during her peak looked like 

While The born this way ball was a huge success. We need to discuss the Latin American leg was a huge disaster commercial wise.

 

She was struggling to sell 40k tickets in Mexico, Taylor sold almost 250k tickets there in a day. 

[JaXXXon]

13 hours ago, Welovetrouble said:

Lady Gaga was humongous in Nigeria and Ghana and I would know I lived there, Taylor isn't even that known there

Thank you. It did feel off when he said she wasn't big in Africa.

 

Lady Gaga's peak has been bigger than Taylor's in Europe, Latin America, Japan, the Middle East and now Africa. Taylor's peak is probably bigger in North America and Australia but that's also about it.

 

Like, we live there so we know better. I'm not even a Britney fan but I can assure when it comes to Europe her name is much bigger than Taylor Swift's is. 

[JaXXXon]

3 minutes ago, Artistofthedecade said:

You are not making any point with comparing decade old sales to 12 months sales. 

 

Again, how is Taylor's peak exclusive to Anglosphere, China and Philippines when she is massive in mainland Europe, Latin America and rest of Asia as well? 

 

Taylor sold 13M units outside of the US last year. She will sell ~25M this year and probably another 25M next year. This is equal to Gaga's career total units in only 3 years 

 

This is exactly how Gaga's Latin America leg during her peak looked like 

While The born this way ball was a huge success. We need to discuss the Latin American leg was a huge disaster commercial wise.

 

She was struggling to sell 40k tickets in Mexico, Taylor sold almost 250k tickets there in a day. 

Yeah but BTW wasn't Gaga's peak. It was the beginning of her downfall. That's like comparing the sales outside of the US of Red to The Fame lmfao.

 

We're talking peaks. Gaga's peak outside of the US is bigger than 1989 and so far bigger than Midnights (which has been out for a year already). 

Edited October 27, 2023 by JaXXXon

[WildHeart]

8 minutes ago, JaXXXon said:

We're talking peaks. Gaga's peak outside of the US is bigger than 1989 and so far bigger than Midnights (which has been out for a year already). 

Taylor's peak is not exclusive to Midnights but her whole catalogue. She is charting +5 albums in like 50 countries, her recent current smash is 4 years old song from 2019 and her 1.5B grossing tour is basically a Greatest Hits tour 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Artistofthedecade

[JaXXXon]

Just now, Artistofthedecade said:

Taylor's peak is not exclusive to Midnights but her whole catalogue. She is charting +5 albums in like 50 countries, her recent current smash is 4 years old song from 2019. 

That smash isn't a smash in other territories though which is exactly my point. You assume that because of her No. 1 on the Hot 100 and presumably her Spotify Global chart position without taking into account that that specific chart is based on cumulative daily streams of which most come from North America which is also why Morgan Wallen could chart there. Now, of course Taylor gets streams from everywhere (unlike Morgan) which is why she's so high there but if you look at individual territories then Cruel Summer is NOT a smash: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruel_Summer_(Taylor_Swift_song)#Weekly_charts

 

When it comes to albums, Taylor has just reached her first No. 1 with Midnights in France but it's not the type of No. 1 that Gaga's peak albums were there and in Poland (where I'm from) she is the only main pop girl aside from Christina Aguilera that has NOT reached the No. 1 spot on the album chart at any point in her career and even though Midnights is a success here (as I keep pointing out that she's successful everywhere) it's not the type of success that Gaga's peak albums had (No. 1 on the album chart, Diamond certification) or Adele.

 

In Germany as well. Latin America as well. Now, Africa as well. Don't misunderstand me, Taylor is big everywhere and she is a superstar but she just hasn't reached the same number of people during her peak that Gaga, Adele and Britney have, for example. That doesn't mean she's not big.

 

Outside of North America and Australia in terms of peaks then Adele and Lady Gaga are more or less the same level (I put them together because Adele has the obliterating album sales and good single stats while Gaga has the obliterating single stats and good album sales) and I would say Britney as well and then peak-Taylor. 

 

[chaklux]

Ronaldo, Messi, Beyoncé , Rihanna and Taylor Swift are way more famous than Britney ever was. Tabloid favourite does not translate to being more famous. There is no one alive right now that knows Britney but doesn’t know Beyoncé, highly unlikely. 
 

No one is touching MJ, that’s for sure !. Ronaldo and Messi came close though