base talk Did Doja's 'i hate my fans' + Attention ruin her momentum?

[réveuse]

Quite a bit since Paint The Town Red was the only song from the album that was a BOP.

[Afterglow]

41 minutes ago, AvadaKedavra said:

Totally. She could be bigger this era. This era feels like is just there.
Im not supportin anything from this era. 
If she goes pop for the next one and is less messy i will. I think her loud could arrive

This.

 

You can't hate the people to dedicate time and money to your career, that was gross of her. 

[gardendreams]

Doja dragging stan culture definitely had an impact on creating fans. Fans are the ones who listen to albums. Even if their behavior is cringe at times. 

 

I do think the experimental sound in addition to her messaging has decreased the reach. 

 

But I think the biggest thing that hurt her is that she didn't do much for a year in a half after being tik toks it girl. She took a deserved break but changing her quirky goofy internet persona into scarlet hurt her in the long run. She use to go viral on tik tok just for being funny. And scarlet just isn't funny? 

[FOCK]

I’ve said before, I don’t understand who she’s mad at. The album’s full of all these superficial “hardships” no one can relate to. Doja lacks vulnerability, a backstory, a journey, actual “strife” the public can relate to or that she’s ever publicised, so that what she writes about actually connects, resonates and makes sense. She’s demanding people “see her” & ranting about social media, but that’s the only side of her she’s ever truly shown. 
 

So much of the subject matter revolves around internet foolery with her fans, that it seems it was a marketing ploy to make the album make any type of sense.

 

She does what she does incredibly well, it’s just that one critical element missing for any of it to feel authentic on this album. 
 

The production is beautiful, her delivery is interesting, the chorus’ and melodies are there, but the verses & subjects are vapid, “I’m richer than you, I want D, I hate twitter trolls & sarcastic condescension, does not really make for a compelling listen. The entire thing feels really apathetic & any attempts at humor comes off dry, as opposed to “fun”. PTTR is saved by a killer hook & production.  

[ImperialCuntess]

No it's overpromising and deservedly dragging Planet Her alienated her core audience only to backslide to the same skeletal trap beats when, RCA probably wanted a rework and still serving less melodic hooks. 

[Billionaire]

Her lashing out at her fans (which you can claim nobody cared about but it objectively killed any chance of her building a stable fanbase who actually checks for the album outside of the singles)

The random droplets after PTTR that no one cared about and probably further killed the hype

Lack of narrative/vision this era (still have no idea why she suddenly switched to this demonic image or why she lashed out at her twitter fans??)

The album being more hip-hop/R&B which is not only not that well-received outside of America but it also not something people are looking to Doja for

Lack of earworms

Attention being the lead (Gun or Agora likely would've done better)

 

We'd be here all day 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Billionaire

[ICLDXU4HS]

1 hour ago, AvadaKedavra said:

Totally. She could be bigger this era. This era feels like is just there.
Im not supportin anything from this era. 
If she goes pop for the next one and is less messy i will. I think her loud could arrive

It’s like y’all don’t even listen. She’s made it abundantly clear more than once that she’s uncomfortable and unhappy with the level of stardom she’s reached. She wants to be a mid-tier artist with artistic freedom and not deal with all of the crap that comes with being an MPG. She’s already made her coin and she’s not gonna give y’all a Loud. She’s over it.

[Blue Rose]

I just know she’s about to have another meltdown  

[Hi-res]

Well…kinda sorta.

 

The “I hate my fans” scandal was pretty huge—not only on Twitter, but on TikTok and Instagram as well. The satanic imagery didn’t do her any favors either, but as we can tell from PTTR, the gp doesn’t really care about that stuff. 
 

But also keep in mind that her core fan base / gp likes pop Doja, it’s evident in the Scarlet thread. Doja wasn’t giving the pop hits so most people tapped out, and the numbers reflect that  it’s a bit of a flop on arrival but she can turn it around still.

 

It’s just a risk you have to take when you change your art direction. 

[Shimenawa]

The music is not.com.mercial

[Amethyst]

Most people seem to forget how Ain't Sh*t had one of the biggest debuts of Planet Her despite being just an album track, and that was one of the most hip-hop sounding songs from PH.

 

The gp is here for rap Doja, if the rap is good. But Scarlet doesn't have a rap HIT. Paint The Town Red was still following Planet Her's footsteps and it became a hit partly thanks to the controversy - but you win some and you lose some, and this same controversy definitely put some people off, and the other singles didn't help in reassuring those listeners that the album was going to be worthy.

[sillycilla]

She’s an empty vessel and super problematic. The line about not effing incels while literally being with a predator? Wtf and I read something where she was trying to explain the meaning of the song and it just felt like a run on sentence of nothing.

 

Will not be supporting. I do think overall though the album will do fine. People outside of atrl seem to enjoy it. And that’s great that she will garner an r&b/hip hop base that will allow her the flexibility she wants.

Edited September 23, 2023 by sillycilla

[Bosque]

That’s the difference between having a big fanbase, and just having one song that people like (PTTR). If she had cultivated her fanbase, they would have stuck with her through the flops and helped her have a better debut, but alas… she is now dependent on continuously churning out hit songs, and sadly nothing outside of PTTR is sticking so far. 
 

That’s why Billie did much better with HTE album despite 5 flop singles in a row, and it helped her until she released songs that were successful with the GP again. 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Dephira

[AlleeX]

is it possible that anyone's discussing this while she has the biggest song in the world rn?

the fact is that the album is super non-commercial, and even with that i'm sure she'll have at LEAST two moderate hits from the album when tiktok picks up.

[BellKat]

TBH, yes

 

I don't understand what was the strategy this time but she was having both, fans and GP attention. I don't understand why did she feel the need to alienate her fans.

 

Non of her other singles were taking off after she started with her rants.

Her team probably felt like they couldn't let it continue. See, PTTR did have a lot of push for the GP, for weeks places like TOTC mentioned how heavy it started with the autoplay until it caught up with the public (and sure, the fact that it became a hit is still commendable since other songs have simmilar push but never take off).

 

Still, her following releases underperformed again. This is where having a fandom helps because those are people who will check your work without requiring the songs to be shoved down their throats like GP needs to. The moment you lose your fandom you are forever subjugated to invest on heavy (and expensive) GP-focused promo or face the flopage

[barbiegrande]

1 hour ago, ICLDXU4HS said:

It’s like y’all don’t even listen. She’s made it abundantly clear more than once that she’s uncomfortable and unhappy with the level of stardom she’s reached. She wants to be a mid-tier artist with artistic freedom and not deal with all of the crap that comes with being an MPG. She’s already made her coin and she’s not gonna give y’all a Loud. She’s over it.

And we’re over her, so at least there’s that 

[OnikaSlays]

Honestly, she would’ve been fine if she would’ve just let the music speak for itself.

 

Everyone, especially locals, have been focusing on her music “sounding the same” because honestly… it does. Obviously more rap oriented, but it’s not long she did a huge artistic 180°.

 

Had she said she just wanted to rap more and left it at that, her new music would’ve been received better.

[bijonse]

Yes. Idk what she was thinking bc without her fans she would be some indie girlie struggling to make rent

[AvadaKedavra]

3 hours ago, State of Grace. said:

Didn't Planet Her do like 28M though? And that was a better era with poppier songs and visuals. She also had more hype leading up to the album.

 

I'm just confused why people were expecting like +40M this time when this was expected. Still haven't listened to Scarlet in full and I like all the pre-release songs, but Doja is just not an albums artist and this era was definitely saved by TikTok jumping on PTTR. She also doesn't have a big fanbase and isn't really that big globally. I feel like she's mainly a singles artist and Gen Z celeb.

She was definitely building a big fanbase with Planet Her 

Im from Latinoamerica and she was starting to feel bigger here. Kiss Me More and Woman gettin played everywhere.........
but then her antics and the paraguayan situation ruined her reputation here in Latinoamerica so much and we are an important demography
She's really her worst enemy. She probably loves it. I dont think she would like to turn into another Rihanna-Beyonce. Fame is not her favorite thing 

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by AvadaKedavra

[tshwark]

No, if anything those rants put her on the map, she is not yet a big celebrity to have the type of hype that Gaga had during the Monster era or Britney during oops, she is more like Pink. 

[Kern]

3 hours ago, FOCK said:

I’ve said before, I don’t understand who she’s mad at. The album’s full of all these superficial “hardships” no one can relate to. Doja lacks vulnerability, a backstory, a journey, actual “strife” the public can relate to or that she’s ever publicised, so that what she writes about actually connects, resonates and makes sense. She’s demanding people “see her” & ranting about social media, but that’s the only side of her she’s ever truly shown. 
 

So much of the subject matter revolves around internet foolery with her fans, that it seems it was a marketing ploy to make the album make any type of sense.

 

She does what she does incredibly well, it’s just that one critical element missing for any of it to feel authentic on this album. 
 

The production is beautiful, her delivery is interesting, the chorus’ and melodies are there, but the verses & subjects are vapid, “I’m richer than you, I want D, I hate twitter trolls & sarcastic condescension, does not really make for a compelling listen. The entire thing feels really apathetic & any attempts at humor comes off dry, as opposed to “fun”. PTTR is saved by a killer hook & production.  

P4k summarized it the best:

 

https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/takeaways-from-doja-cats-new-album-scarlet/

 

It's like she made a whole bitter album about twitter. And for what? The production is great, the lyrics are not bad but the point of these songs is literally what you said - online hardships that no one can relate to. Maybe it wouldn't have been that bad if she actually changed the subject matter from time to time. 

[Bloodflowers.]

Doja is a GP artist like Dua Lipa, which means GP knows them and check out their singles but don't have obsessive and large fanbase that would buy and stream albums. They have casual fans checking out albums. Although Dua might have grown fanbase for DL3, we will see!

[worldwide angel]

that  + rca releasing two versions of scarlet  

 

also the thing everyone looks over is the whole j cyrus mess. the way she handled that was disgusting 

[Trainwreck]

The Music is just bad, mid singles and overall mid album. Maybe when she returns to pop I'll care about her again, until then it's a no from me.

[Cheers]

Nah her team will push out another TikTok hit