celeb news IndieWire: Taylor Swift causes "chaos" in Hollywood, has opened "Pandora's Box"

[awesomepossum]

44 minutes ago, Lemon said:

Trust me, accomplishment here is the movie itself - it is cinematic experience of potentially biggest tour ever and possibly Swift’s biggest career tour. Pissing executives off and everything this article/thread is about is side-effect, which is normal considering this kind of things come with such ripple. 

On that we agree. I have no doubt it will be a huge commercial success.

[Jjang]

25 minutes ago, RobynYoBank said:

Don't think it's necessarily meant to be disrespectful, but "Queen of Pop" has always been the honorary title for people vying to be "the next (but implicitly lesser) Madonna". But there's a point at which very special artists cease to be compared to those before them in that sense and become an unprecedented and incomparable force of their own.

 

Kind of like how Madonna is "The Queen of Pop"

Michael is the "King of Pop"

Elvis is "The King"

and The Beatles are just "The Beatles"

 

They can all stand alone because at some point they towered over their peers in unique ways that makes them emblematic of their time and comparisons become almost meaningless. We might as well be arguing about whether the 1950s or the 1960s or the 1980s was the best decade.

I don’t think that nor did I insinuate that Taylor is “the next but lesser Madonna” - I think Taylor is Taylor and she’s great at doing that. I literally replied to someone saying she’s above that title (as in: she’s bigger than “just” the queen of Pop) and that’s that. I have no issue with people saying Taylor is the biggest female artist since Madonna debuted 40+ years ago or that she will eclipse her commercially speaking by the next decade. But I have repeatedly read this statement that  “Queen of Pop” is too small/insignificant or restrictive title for Taylor because “she’s so much more than that” which like it or not does come across as disrespect to Madonna and her legacy. The people that made or supported that comment do not argue that Taylor is different, they argue that Taylor is superior. 

 

I don’t understand how I can be any clearer. 

[Iceland]

The music industry ending the movie industry

[EmailMySwift]

2 hours ago, Jjang said:

They're so disrespectful with it 

 

They don't "understand" that Queen of Pop stands for Queen of Popular Culture. Madonna earned that title because up to that point in history, no other female mainstream musician impacted media and culture on that unprecedented level globally and she secured her legacy by continuously evolving, breaking taboos and thresholds, and defining the parameters and the conversation around "the female Pop star" as a media figure and performer. Taylor is not above that just because she's a commercial mammoth and she's surely not "The next Beatles" just because she has a monstrous fan base who consumes her catalog through streaming because that's not what made the Beatles The Beatles to begin with as well.  

 

Free reads: 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_impact_of_Madonna

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_impact_of_the_Beatles

 

(Yes I have read Taylor's page as well and it doesn't compare) 

 

They think to themselves: But Taylor did more than Pop, she also did country! she's above this! completely ignoring the fact that Madonna has multi-platinum albums that were Jazz, Swing, Classical, R&B, and even experimental. Not just Pop. 

 

OT - Taylor's slaying 

 

2 hours ago, Jjang said:

What about the five other Swifties who liked that comment? I've seen the ShEs AbOvE tHe QuEEn oF pOp TiTLe comment being made here plenty of times and this was my first time replying to it because I was sick of reading it  I recognize a good portion of Swifties are pretty laid back and chill and would rather just discuss the merit of her music rather than just the charts, I love that for them. But don't deny that there's an annoying number of them who participate in undermining other female artists in any way shape or form possible. Even freaking Madonna.

 

2 hours ago, Jjang said:

When I said "they" I was not referring to Swift's fan base as a whole. Just the seven members in this thread that came in blazing ready to throw shade at Madonna here. That's all. 

What Taylor is doing, no other woman in music has ever done before. Not just right now, but for years. And as the music industry collapses, she gets bigger, which makes her domination even more shocking. So yeah, she is above "Queen of Pop." She is the Queen and King of not just Pop, but of Music, period. 

 

I mean Madonna released a concert doc at her absolute peak before the Erotica backlash - it did decent but unspectacular numbers, grossing $15M in the US. Meanwhile Taylor has Hollywood shaking: https://deadline.com/2023/08/taylor-swift-eras-tour-movie-ticket-presales-box-office-1235533199/

[enchanted0]

Only the biggest female popstar of all time. The way Taylor changes the game without relying shock value and gimmick is so interesting.

[RobynYoBank]

25 minutes ago, Jjang said:

I don’t think that nor did I insinuate that Taylor is “the next but lesser Madonna” - I think Taylor is Taylor and she’s great at doing that. I literally replied to someone saying she’s above that title (as in: she’s bigger than “just” the queen of Pop) and that’s that. I have no issue with people saying Taylor is the biggest female artist since Madonna debuted 40+ years ago or that she will eclipse her commercially speaking by the next decade. But I have repeatedly read this statement that  “Queen of Pop” is too small/insignificant or restrictive title for Taylor because “she’s so much more than that” which like it or not does come across as disrespect to Madonna and her legacy. The people that made or supported that comment do not argue that Taylor is different, they argue that Taylor is superior. 

 

I don’t understand how I can be any clearer. 

Like I said, at a certain point *** for tat becomes meaningless and the artist becomes something unto themselves, and I feel that's what's happened here for Taylor.

 

There's always been an implicit understanding that the "reigning Queen of Pop" is inherently inferior to Madonna, because that's her honorific title. Anyone else borrowing the title is doing just that - borrowing it, an afterimage. And even though that implication has always been present, it was never an insult to be a lesser or second-coming-of Madonna. It's always been an honor.

 

But it's always possible for someone new to rise and become an incomparable phenomenon of their own. Kind of like what MJ did three decades after Elvis' peak. That's why the phrase "I'm not the next ______, I'm the FIRST [INSERT TITLE HERE]" is a common phrase in pop culture. It captures that transition.

Edited September 1, 2023 by RobynYoBank

[Blade Runner]

Like Grace Randolph said today, she's more than just a pop star. She's her own country based on how big she is and how much she impacts the global economy. 

[Just a Gay on ATRL]

The movie industry desperately needed disruption this year so I’m happy for Taylor to contribute lol

[QueenB]

Taylor is massive, and she's making pop music exciting again, even if you dont like her music you can't deny the power she currently has

[chiliam]

How about paying the writters and actors, though? So movie theaters can have movies to shown.

If anything this event will help the movie theater through this strike with all the movies being push back.

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by chiliam

[Jjang]

1 minute ago, EmailMySwift said:

 

 

What Taylor is doing, no other woman in music has ever done before. Not just right now, but for years. And as the music industry collapses, she gets bigger, which makes her domination even more shocking. So yeah, she is above "Queen of Pop." She is the Queen and King of not just Pop, but of Music, period. 

 

I mean Madonna released a concert doc at her absolute peak before the Erotica backlash - it did decent but unspectacular numbers, grossing $15M in the US. Meanwhile Taylor has Hollywood shaking: https://deadline.com/2023/08/taylor-swift-eras-tour-movie-ticket-presales-box-office-1235533199/

Don't you think it's ignorant to compare a music documentary from 1990 to a live concert film in 2023 strictly by the numbers? No context allowed? no cultural and time gaps addressed? This is what I'm talking about when I say a lot of TS fans dismiss and disrespect Madonna's legacy and contributions to culture by refusing to read between the lines and I'm sure there are at least 3-4 members running to correct me right now because I somehow misspoke about the fan base again. 

 

Anyway, for context: 

 

1) Truth or Dare was a highly controversial film, aside from the fact that it has nudity and a lot of explicit visuals/language init, it was also the first time ever the big screen displayed unabashed (POC) queers and their personal lives - it even had the first real gay kiss on the big screen which consequently got it banned in many countries. Not to mention the tour it was documenting quite literally was the premiere of Pop concerts as we know them today still.

 

2) The movie was R-rated. The Eras Tour Live is not. 

 

3) The movie made a huge impact on reality TV and celebrity culture as we know it today and is credited by a plethora of critics for laying the foundations of that genre. It was only after it that MTV premiered celebrity reality. 

 

4) Despite the bans and controversies, the movie grossed ~ $70m in adjusted figures and was the most successful music documentary since 1970 and that record was only broken 15 years later. 

 

5) The moral of the story is that it's not cute to pretend to be context blind. 

 

Anyway, enjoy this video of Madge giving a bottle head

 

 

14 minutes ago, enchanted0 said:

Only the biggest female popstar of all time. The way Taylor changes the game without relying shock value and gimmick is so interesting.

Can I point out that this is like the 10th Taylor fan unnecessarily disrespecting Madonna in this thread or is that Swifties-phobic too and I'm gonna get swarmed by Taylor apologists telling me I'm being mean by mischaracterizing an entire fan base (which I'm not)? @WeFoundTrouble  

 

[Jjang]

14 minutes ago, RobynYoBank said:

Like I said, at a certain point *** for tat becomes meaningless and the artist becomes something unto themselves, and I feel that's what's happened here for Taylor.

 

There's always been an implicit understanding that the "reigning Queen of Pop" is inherently inferior to Madonna, because that's her honorific title. Anyone else borrowing the title is doing just that - borrowing it, an afterimage. And even though that implication has always been present, it was never an insult to be a lesser or second-coming-of Madonna. It's always been an honor.

 

But it's always possible for someone new to rise and become an incomparable phenomenon of their own. Kind of like what MJ did three decades after Elvis' peak. That's why the phrase "I'm not the next ______, I'm the FIRST [INSERT TITLE HERE]" is a common phrase in pop culture. It captures that transition.

once again - Taylor fans here are not arguing that she's different than Madonna (which is your argument that I agree with), but that she's above her. Can you even read? 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Jjang

[JawBreaker]

I'm not too versed in the movie world but her having no big studios attached to the film and working directly with AMC the distributor itself instead. That's not that common right? 

 

This seems like its gonna be a big success. 

What is gonna help it a lot too is that swifties are gonna treat it like Barbie. Where they make it an event dressing up in Eras attire, friendships bracelets and all that just like the tour itself. 

 

 

[Nova_23]

11 minutes ago, Blade Runner said:

Like Grace Randolph said today, she's more than just a pop star. She's her own country based on how big she is and how much she impacts the global economy. 

The accuracy though. Give her a couple months and she’ll probably be polling over 10% in the US elections 

[JawBreaker]

I'm getting tired of that user infiltrating evey taylor thread fuming. I barely come on here but everytime I do it's the same ass user writing essays fuming. Like calm down omg how old r you even 

[Nova_23]

2 minutes ago, JawBreaker said:

I'm not too versed in the movie world but her having no big studios attached to the film and working directly with AMC the distributor itself instead. That's not that common right? 

 

This seems like its gonna be a big success. 

What is gonna help it a lot too is that swifties are gonna treat it like Barbie. Where they make it an event dressing up in Eras attire, friendships bracelets and all that just like the tour itself. 

 

 

It’s very rare and that’s also why the bigger studios are fuming. 

 

From what I’ve heard, AMC are actually the ones who approached her about trying to get an exclusive deal with her to release this. It’s because studios have been bailing on release dates due to the strikes so theaters have been left dry since late July and it’s barren the next several months. 
 

And for anyone in here still trying to question just how big she is, a large movie theater chain in the USA asked her to release her concert tour movie in their theaters in hopes to spark ticket sales. So not only does she have politicians begging her to play in their countries in hopes of stimulating their economies but theater chain approaching her in hopes to help with their poor sales 

[Jjang]

10 minutes ago, JawBreaker said:

I'm getting tired of that user infiltrating evey taylor thread fuming. I barely come on here but everytime I do it's the same ass user writing essays fuming. Like calm down omg how old r you even 

3 hours ago, Jjang said:

 

OT - Taylor's slaying 

I literally don't owe you anything lol. If I decide to reply to an ignorant comment your fellow friends made then I will. Jeez. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Jjang

[Into The Void]

Why bother watching her do what u can find for free on youtube

[JawBreaker]

8 minutes ago, Nova_23 said:

It’s very rare and that’s also why the bigger studios are fuming. 

 

From what I’ve heard, AMC are actually the ones who approached her about trying to get an exclusive deal with her to release this. It’s because studios have been bailing on release dates due to the strikes so theaters have been left dry since late July and it’s barren the next several months. 
 

And for anyone in here still trying to question just how big she is, a large movie theater chain in the USA asked her to release her concert tour movie in their theaters in hopes to spark ticket sales. So not only does she have politicians begging her to play in their countries in hopes of stimulating their economies but theater chain approaching her in hopes to help with their poor sales 

Oh interesting that's insane. They made a great decision. Cuz its gonna be a huge success!

Cant wait for October to come faster we're gonna be FED wheww

 

[JawBreaker]

11 minutes ago, Jjang said:

I literally don't owe you anything lol. If I decide to reply to an ignorant comment your fellow friends made then I will. Jeez. 

Not reading this double it and give to someone else fool enough to read any of your posts.

Cuz theres no reason why the very few times I come on here as of late to see threads about my fave and almost every single one of them you're always writing essays 

Edited September 1, 2023 by JawBreaker

[Jjang]

1 minute ago, JawBreaker said:

Not reading this double it and give to someone else fool enough to read any of your posts.

Cuz theres no reason why the very few times I come on here as of late to see threads about my fave and almost every single one of them you're always writing essays 

the untrue exaggeration  but I don't expect anything else from a person who thinks a short paragraph and a half is an essay 

[Into The Void]

33 minutes ago, Jjang said:

Don't you think it's ignorant to compare a music documentary from 1990 to a live concert film in 2023 strictly by the numbers? No context allowed? no cultural and time gaps addressed? This is what I'm talking about when I say a lot of TS fans dismiss and disrespect Madonna's legacy and contributions to culture by refusing to read between the lines and I'm sure there are at least 3-4 members running to correct me right now because I somehow misspoke about the fan base again. 

 

Anyway, for context: 

 

1) Truth or Dare was a highly controversial film, aside from the fact that it has nudity and a lot of explicit visuals/language init, it was also the first time ever the big screen displayed unabashed (POC) queers and their personal lives - it even had the first real gay kiss on the big screen which consequently got it banned in many countries. Not to mention the tour it was documenting quite literally was the premiere of Pop concerts as we know them today still.

 

2) The movie was R-rated. The Eras Tour Live is not. 

 

3) The movie made a huge impact on reality TV and celebrity culture as we know it today and is credited by a plethora of critics for laying the foundations of that genre. It was only after it that MTV premiered celebrity reality. 

 

4) Despite the bans and controversies, the movie grossed ~ $70m in adjusted figures and was the most successful music documentary since 1970 and that record was only broken 15 years later. 

 

5) The moral of the story is that it's not cute to pretend to be context blind. 

 

Anyway, enjoy this video of Madge giving a bottle head

 

 

Can I point out that this is like the 10th Taylor fan unnecessarily disrespecting Madonna in this thread or is that Swifties-phobic too and I'm gonna get swarmed by Taylor apologists telling me I'm being mean by mischaracterizing an entire fan base (which I'm not)? @WeFoundTrouble  

 

When have Swifties ever been known to be respectful 

[Jjang]

4 minutes ago, Insanity said:

When have Swifties ever been known to be respectful 

A lot of them are, tbh. I can tell you firsthand hand if some girls were experiencing half of the success Taylor is experiencing right now they'd be utterly insufferable but a lot of Taylor fans have good perspectives and mostly discuss the merit of her work - which other fan bases can learn from.

 

That, however, does not mean the other side of them is immune to criticism or replies (or the ones that pretend to be fair and logical only to downvote every opinion that doesn't align with theirs about Taylor lol) 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Jjang

[Into The Void]

1 minute ago, Jjang said:

A lot of them are, tbh. I can tell you firsthand hand if some girls were experiencing half of the success Taylor is experiencing right now they'd be utterly insufferable but a lot of Taylor fans have good perspectives and mostly discuss the merit of her work - which other fan bases can learn from.

 

That, however, does not mean the other side of them is immune to criticism or replies (or the ones that pretend to be fair and logical only to downvote every opinion that doesn't align with theirs about Taylor lol) 

Taylor fans are insufferable 

[EmailMySwift]

40 minutes ago, Jjang said:

Don't you think it's ignorant to compare a music documentary from 1990 to a live concert film in 2023 strictly by the numbers? No context allowed? no cultural and time gaps addressed? This is what I'm talking about when I say a lot of TS fans dismiss and disrespect Madonna's legacy and contributions to culture by refusing to read between the lines and I'm sure there are at least 3-4 members running to correct me right now because I somehow misspoke about the fan base again. 

 

Anyway, for context: 

 

1) Truth or Dare was a highly controversial film, aside from the fact that it has nudity and a lot of explicit visuals/language init, it was also the first time ever the big screen displayed unabashed (POC) queers and their personal lives - it even had the first real gay kiss on the big screen which consequently got it banned in many countries. Not to mention the tour it was documenting quite literally was the premiere of Pop concerts as we know them today still.

 

2) The movie was R-rated. The Eras Tour Live is not. 

 

3) The movie made a huge impact on reality TV and celebrity culture as we know it today and is credited by a plethora of critics for laying the foundations of that genre. It was only after it that MTV premiered celebrity reality. 

 

4) Despite the bans and controversies, the movie grossed ~ $70m in adjusted figures and was the most successful music documentary since 1970 and that record was only broken 15 years later. 

 

5) The moral of the story is that it's not cute to pretend to be context blind. 

 

Anyway, enjoy this video of Madge giving a bottle head

 

 

Can I point out that this is like the 10th Taylor fan unnecessarily disrespecting Madonna in this thread or is that Swifties-phobic too and I'm gonna get swarmed by Taylor apologists telling me I'm being mean by mischaracterizing an entire fan base (which I'm not)? @WeFoundTrouble  

 

 

Truth or Dare was the 78th biggest movie of 1991. We'll see where Taylor's concert film lands on the 2023 year end chart   

 

 

40 minutes ago, Jjang said:

once again - Taylor fans here are not arguing that she's different than Madonna (which is your argument that I agree with), but that she's above her. Can you even read? 

Taylor is the biggest female artist of all time, so yes, she is bigger. Can you please stop spamming about Madonna? This thread is about Taylor's historic movie, not Madonna. You made it about Madonna because of one person's comment. 

 

I love these headlines: