poll Bigger Classic: We Belong Together vs Shallow

[VioletsandRoses]

2 hours ago, industry baby said:

Shallow by far. A global smash. Most likely biggest MPG song of all time in Europe + x1 Diamond in US. 

It’s not even her biggest hit in Europe. Please be serious 

 

4 minutes ago, suburbannature said:

This corny-ass trolling when WBT's success was not even radio-reliant or a time when it was easy to manipulate radio. She's out-streaming every single one of her peers in recurrent for a reason. 

 

And as I said before, Shallow peaking a few higher in a couple of tiny European markets means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. The world is not limited to Western Europe and the US is a bigger music market than those combined (plus WBT did better in Asia). We're in a completely different sales climate that favors singles sales more than ever before and We Belong Together still out-certified/out-sold Shallow in the US to a point that rivals Shallow's global certifcaton figures. That's how huge it was (and continues to be charting on AM, doing 350k daily on Spotify, currently nearing a million TikTok vids).

 

And to show how little you actually know of charts - Canada Hot 100 didn't exist before 2007. They used RPM from 1964-2000 or the Nielsen chart starting in 1996. We Belong Together hit #1 on pop radio and in sales, the only existing main consumption charts at the time.

 

 

It spent 16 weeks at #1 on radio and 0 weeks at #1 on sales. Digital sales were just getting started so it was easier to be higher in charts since the numbers were lower.  Europe has the top 20 biggest music markets like (Germany, France, Switzerland, Italy and Spain). I’m from Taiwan where Gaga is only behind Avril when it comes to foreign females in the last 10-20 years. Shallow was a hit here, South Korea and SEA. Only Japan didn’t stan because it’s a folkish country song. Which makes it more impressive that it did well globally. In 2005, Halloback Girls, Because of you, and Pon De Replay all outsold it, especially globally. 

[awong918]

WBT is that song, but it somehow failed to stand the test of time considering how huge it was at its time. Shallow will be a talent show staple at the very least.

[Intuition]

It's difficult to measure because WBT is a full 13 years older.

However, I think Shallow will be more remembered in the long run.

[R. Ramirez]

6 minutes ago, suburbannature said:

This corny-ass trolling when WBT's success was not even radio-reliant or a time when it was easy to manipulate radio. She's out-streaming every single one of her peers in recurrent for a reason. 

 

And as I said before, Shallow peaking a few higher in a couple of tiny European markets means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. The world is not limited to Western Europe and the US is a bigger music market than those combined (plus WBT did better in Asia). We're in a completely different sales climate that favors singles sales more than ever before and We Belong Together still out-certified/out-sold Shallow in the US to a point that rivals Shallow's global certifcaton figures. That's how huge it was (and continues to be charting on AM, doing 350k daily on Spotify, currently nearing a million TikTok vids).

 

And to show how little you actually know of charts - Canada Hot 100 didn't exist before 2007. They used RPM from 1964-2000 or the Nielsen chart starting in 1996. We Belong Together hit #1 on pop radio and in sales, the only existing main consumption charts at the time.

 

 

 

Certified units worldwide: 

 

Shallow: 11,063,000 (4M domestically- 36% of its total)

We Belong Together: 7,549M (6M domestically - 79% of its total)

 

No matter how you spin it, the Xmas fad bombed worldwide.

 

 

[suburbannature]

2 minutes ago, R. Ramirez said:

 

Certified units worldwide: 

 

Shallow: 11,063,000 (4M domestically- 36% of its total)

We Belong Together: 7,549M (6M domestically - 79% of its total)

 

No matter how you spin it, the Xmas fad bombed worldwide.

 

 

A song from 2018/the modern era where singles perform FAR better is that close to a song from 2005 in units. Tells you all you need to know.

 

Here's a small example of songs only recently started having large certification numbers:

https://www.insider.com/every-diamond-certified-song-ever-riaa#7-poker-face-by-lady-gaga-7

 

We Belong Together is the top-certified female song of 2005 while Shallow isn't even close to that accomplishment. 

[suburbannature]

12 minutes ago, VioletsandRoses said:

It’s not even her biggest hit in Europe. Please be serious 

 

It spent 16 weeks at #1 on radio and 0 weeks at #1 on sales. Digital sales were just getting started so it was easier to be higher in charts since the numbers were lower.  Europe has the top 20 biggest music markets like (Germany, France, Switzerland, Italy and Spain). I’m from Taiwan where Gaga is only behind Avril when it comes to foreign females in the last 10-20 years. Shallow was a hit here, South Korea and SEA. Only Japan didn’t stan because it’s a folkish country song. Which makes it more impressive that it did well globally. In 2005, Halloback Girls, Because of you, and Pon De Replay all outsold it, especially globally. 

It quite literally sold more than all of those in the US. It was #2 on digital song sales (physical sales were counted separately, obviously) for weeks and stayed on that chart for 35 weeks. It had longevity and was certified 6x platinum, the highest of female songs from 2005. DFAU went #1 on this chart, but sold significantly less than We Belong Together. You're shoe-horning stats.

 

We Belong Together was #1 for 5 weeks on the global consumption chart. 

 

 

@stevyy, any stats to add?

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by suburbannature

[suburbannature]

10 minutes ago, awong918 said:

WBT is that song, but it somehow failed to stand the test of time considering how huge it was at its time. Shallow will be a talent show staple at the very least.

And yet has charted on Apple Music's main song chart this very year and is currently producing 700k Tiktok videos.

[EnigmaticAndroid]

6 minutes ago, Intuition said:

It's difficult to measure because WBT is a full 13 years older.

However, I think Shallow will be more remembered in the long run.

.

[suburbannature]

@R. Ramirez your number isn't even correct. 

 

Using Nielsen Soundscan + Global data

 US - 6.7 million

CN - 1.26 million

UK - 600K

CA - 230k

JP - 200k

AU - 200k

BR - 170k

PH - 125k

DE - 120k

FR - 75k

SE - 55k

MY - 50k

NL - 50k

NZ - 45k

NO - 40k

DK - 35k

IE - 35k

IT - 25k

MX - 25k

CH - 20k

IN - 20k

PL - 20k
RU - 20k

SG - 20k

TW - 20k

BE - 15k

ES - 15k

HK - 15k

ME - 10k

PT - 10k

 

= 10,275,000 as a song from 2005  

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately for atrl and their faves, Western Europe is not anywhere near a sole indicator of being global and the exclusion of Asia is always telling. 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by suburbannature

[R. Ramirez]

3 minutes ago, suburbannature said:

A song from 2018/the modern era where singles perform FAR better is that close to a song from 2005 in units. Tells you all you need to know.

 

Here's a small example of songs only recently started having large certification numbers:

https://www.insider.com/every-diamond-certified-song-ever-riaa#7-poker-face-by-lady-gaga-7

 

We Belong Together is the top-certified female song of 2005 while Shallow isn't even close to that accomplishment. 

"That close"? 

There's a gap of 3,5M+ units, Shallow being undercertified in the US and still moving 900k+ daily streams WW. 

 

And no that's not true. As someone already mentioned, Holloback Girl AND Because Of You erased WBT (not PDR though), at least when it comes to digital sales - the relevant metric of that time. 

 

[shyboi]

Shallow was a revolution, so...

[suburbannature]

Just now, R. Ramirez said:

"That close"? 

There's a gap of 3,5M+ units, Shallow being undercertified in the US and still moving 900k+ daily streams WW. 

 

And no that's not true. As someone already mentioned, Holloback Girl AND Because Of You erased WBT (not PDR though), at least when it comes to digital sales - the relevant metric of that time. 

 

You're quite literally lying. Nielsen Soundscan is freely available online.

 

Because of You sold 2,000,000 units (Billboard citing Soundscan) and Hollaback girl was recently updated with certs for 5x million. Mariah stands at over 6 million with 4 million of that being pure. Mariah was ahead of BOY in pure even before recent updates by RIAA and Nielsen, for example.

[Wewee]

Mhhhh

USA : We belong together maybe Asia 

Europe/Oceani : Shallow i would say

[inmymendes]

We Belong Together!!! 

[R. Ramirez]

13 minutes ago, suburbannature said:

You're quite literally lying. Nielsen Soundscan is freely available online.

 

Because of You sold 2,000,000 units (Billboard citing Soundscan) and Hollaback girl was recently updated with certs for 5x million. Mariah stands at over 6 million with 4 million of that being pure. Mariah was ahead of BOY in pure even before recent updates by RIAA and Nielsen, for example.

Link?

 

WBT did not even sell 4M downloads worldwide. 

 

US best digital downloaded songs  in 2005:

 

1. Holloback Girl

2. Since U Been Gone

3. Boulevard f Broken Dreams

4. Mr. Brightside

5. Beverly Hills

 

Mariah was N/A.

 

 

[CottageHore]

I love Gaga and I love Shallow, but if you unironically voted for Shallow for any of these, you are delusion 

 

The 14 week number one classic and designated Song of the 000s Decade by Billboard can not be competed with 

[unclefloprry]

nostalgic US gays and ATRL = WBT
real world = Shallow

[State of Grace.]

The one that didn't rely on radio to be a GLOBAL smash

 

[VioletsandRoses]

8 minutes ago, R. Ramirez said:

Link?

 

WBT did not even sell 4M downloads worldwide. 

 

US best digital downloaded songs  in 2005:

 

1. Holloback Girl

2. Since U Been Gone

3. Boulevard f Broken Dreams

4. Mr. Brightside

5. Beverly Hills

 

Mariah was N/A.

 

 

For female hits from 2005 the downloads are 

1. Since U Been Gone- 3 million

2.Holloback Girls- 3 million

3.Because Of You-2.4 million

4.Pon De Replay-2 million 

5. We Belong Together- 1.8 million 

 

Worldwide it’s 

1. Because Of You- 7.7 million (huge hit in Europe and South Korea) 

2.Holloback Girls- 6.3 million 

3. Since You Been Gone- 4.9 million 

4- Pon De Replay- 3.9 million 

5- We Belong Together- 3.4 million 

thats not including cd singles which also sold well in Europe and Oceania back then 

[JohnWayneHolland]

No offense and no shade to Mariah but i don't think I've ever heard WBT  maybe it was very big in the US but I'm not from the US, so...

[unclefloprry]

3 minutes ago, CottageHore said:

I love Gaga and I love Shallow, but if you unironically voted for Shallow for any of these, you are delusion 

 

The 14 week number one classic and designated Song of the 000s Decade by Billboard can not be competed with 

The world is not just the US 

Certified sales outside US: 
- WBT: 675K (600K from UK )
- Shallow: 6.4M 

#1s outside the US
- WBT: 1
- Shallow: 19

[Leptine]

1 hour ago, R. Ramirez said:

Mariah dropped We Belong Together in a time it was easy to manipulate songs with radio PAYOLA, like all her forgotten and fraudulent singles from the 90s. 

 

WBT ranks also higher in the US than GENUINE smash hits as Poker Face, Bad Romance, Just Dance due to the public's consumption. Doesn't mean sh**. The real smash hits are the ones that are DIAMOND certified.

 

Thank God, we have official charts and certifications to judge the global success of these songs. 

 

Decade-end chart in AUS

Shallow: #91

WBT: N/A

 

YEC in NZ

Shallow: #10

WBT: #32

 

UK YEC

Shallow: #87, #20, #65, #60, #84

WBT: #20

 

Canadian YEC

Canada: #6

WBT: N/A (it didn't even hit #1 on the main chart...)

 

Germanian YEC

Shallow: #16

WBT: #92

 

French YEC 

France: #98, #12, #103, #190

WBT: N/A

 

Italian YEC

Shallow: #99, #22, #99

WBT: N/A

 

Spanish YEC

Shallow: #40

WBT: N/A

 

And that's without counting Norway where Shallow is on the All-Time Chart, Sweden, Switzerland, Portugal,...

 

You really thought, your fav is the definition of LOCAL.

 

1 hour ago, VioletsandRoses said:

 

It spent 16 weeks at #1 on radio and 0 weeks at #1 on sales. Digital sales were just getting started so it was easier to be higher in charts since the numbers were lower.  Europe has the top 20 biggest music markets like (Germany, France, Switzerland, Italy and Spain). I’m from Taiwan where Gaga is only behind Avril when it comes to foreign females in the last 10-20 years. Shallow was a hit here, South Korea and SEA. Only Japan didn’t stan because it’s a folkish country song. Which makes it more impressive that it did well globally. In 2005, Halloback Girls, Because of you, and Pon De Replay all outsold it, especially globally. 

 

1 hour ago, R. Ramirez said:

 

Certified units worldwide: 

 

Shallow: 11,063,000 (4M domestically- 36% of its total)

We Belong Together: 7,549M (6M domestically - 79% of its total)

 

No matter how you spin it, the Xmas fad bombed worldwide.

 

The clock-receipts

 

Not that they were needed, 'Shallow' easily.

[Armani?]

This isn't even a fair comparison

 

We Belong Together came out in 2005, Shallow came out in late 2018, like....

[CottageHore]

8 minutes ago, unclefloprry said:

The world is not just the US 

Certified sales outside US: 
- WBT: 675K (600K from UK )
- Shallow: 6.4M 

#1s outside the US
- WBT: 1
- Shallow: 19

The answer is WBT, babe. 

[Homebrand]

11 minutes ago, Armani? said:

This isn't even a fair comparison

 

We Belong Together came out in 2005, Shallow came out in late 2018, like....

It's not that it isn't ''fair'' its because it doesn't make sense to begin with