base talk Why is Taylor the only woman who can compete with the men?

[simmnfierzig]

3 hours ago, RihFenty20 said:

This is what I mean when I say deception. Year-end doesn’t depend on raw sales but chart performance (via a point system). The points are accumulated on a weekly basis based on the position a song or album occupies over the course of the year. No institution has ever said “you sold half a song because you’re a feature”. But I can understand why a featured act wouldn’t get same number of points for the year end. Why do you guys do this? This is why nobody likes your fandom. 

I am really sorry that I upset you. It wasnt my intention at all to do anything 

 

I'm confused once again by your opinion. And your standard thing of "well duuuuuuuuuh my opinion is so super obvious, everyone is clearly seeing it exactly like I am".

I dont see that much difference here between year end charts and overall sales. But okay you do and so my input wasnt helpful. Again I'm sorry.

 

 

[The Music Industry]

7 hours ago, RihFenty20 said:

I doubt any official institution is going “you’re featured on the song so you only get half or 1/3 or 1/4 of the credit”. Have they ever said “you sold half of a single as a feature”?. 

That's literally what they do?  Billboard gives 30% of a song's credit if you're a featured artist and 50% if it's a lead collab  You're constantly grasping at straws

Edited August 31, 2022 by The Music Industry

[RihFenty20]

38 minutes ago, The Music Industry said:

That's literally what they do?  Billboard gives 30% of a song's credit if you're a featured artist  and 50% if it's a lead collab 

For *POINTS*, not SALES. what’s not clicking??!?!!?? 

 

52 minutes ago, simmnfierzig said:

I'm confused once again by your opinion

We’re going in circles here (and you didn’t upset me but I feel like none of you guys are actually reading what I’m saying when I’ve been pretty thorough). My opinion is streams aren’t sales, and converting them into sales makes no sense. Pure sales are pure sales and streams are streams. That’s it. Your fandom cries about equivalents every someone mentions Rihanna being second the highest selling woman by pure sales after Madonna when Rihanna debuted in an era where album sales were dying and track sales were booming (I literally explained all this in my original response to you). All to try to discredit the volume of pure sales Rihanna has moved and proclaim your fav is the best simply because some random guy created a site and said so. You guys also love to lie…. Like a lot, it’s actually ridiculous the amount of misinformation spread by swifties. Now I’m not saying Taylor isn’t a force but regardless of streams and equivalents Rihanna remains the highest pure seller of the century. Full stop. I literally gave credit to Taylor for killing the catalog era (regarding streams) in my very first response and one of your cult members came into my quotes to argue with me because I didn’t proclaim his (or her) fav is the best at everything at all times. 

Edited August 31, 2022 by RihFenty20

[simmnfierzig]

9 minutes ago, RihFenty20 said:

For *POINTS*, not SALES. what’s not clicking??!?!!?? 

 

We’re going in circles here (and you didn’t upset me but I feel like none of you guys are actually reading what I’m saying when I’ve been pretty thorough). My opinion is streams aren’t sales, and converting them into sales makes no sense. Pure sales are pure sales and streams are streams. That’s it. Your fandom cries about equivalents every someone mentions Rihanna being second the highest selling woman by pure sales after Madonna when Rihanna debuted in an era where album sales were dying and track sales were booming (I literally explained all this in my original response to you). All to try to discredit the volume of pure sales Rihanna has moved and proclaim your fav is the best simply because some random guy created a site and said so. Now I’m not saying Taylor isn’t a force but regardless of streams and equivalents Rihanna remains the highest pure seller of the century. Full stop. I literally gave credit to Taylor for killing the catalog era (regarding streams) in my very first response and one of your cult members came into my quotes to argue with me because I didn’t proclaim his (or her) fav is the best at everything at all times. 

Yes I understood your main opinion. And I dont agree with it. Thats fine

[kimberly]

On 8/29/2022 at 3:21 PM, Dephira said:

Even big artists like Beyonce, Gaga, Adele and Billie Eilish only managed to grab the #1 spot for a very short time with new album releases before Taylor took over again.

not denying Taylor's power at all, but I want to point out that Taylor Swift (12) has released as many albums as Gaga (6) + Adele (4) + Eilish (2) combined, lol. (9 studio albums + 2 TVs + two singles off of 1989 TV)

 

bigger catalog helps with bigger streaming total  

 

this is apparent because Taylor Swift's most streamed album is Lover, #56 on the all-time list. female albums ahead of it:

 

#3 Dua Lipa - Dua Lipa

#6 Dua Lipa - Future Nostalgia

#7 Billie Eilish - WWAFAWDWG

#12 Olivia Rodrigo - SOUR

#20 Billie Eilish - Don't Smile At Me (EP)

#23 Ariana Grande - Thank U, Next

#40 Ariana Grande - Dangerous Woman

#41 Doja Cat - Planet Her

#44 Rihanna - ANTI

#47 Adele - 25

#49 Anne-Marie - Speak Your Mind

#52 Adele - 21

Edited August 31, 2022 by kimberly

[RihFenty20]

3 minutes ago, simmnfierzig said:

Yes I understood your main opinion. And I dont agree with it. Thats fine

That’s fine. You don’t have you to agree with me, but don’t pretend that anything I said is false (not you, but the fandom). And I’m making things up to make my fav look

good. I don’t need to do that and her stats (and certifications) speak for themselves. Also don’t pretend you know who outsold who (in attempts to discredit my retired fav) based on the word of some random chart site (again, not you but the fandom) and their made up metric. Basically just stop lying (again, not you). It’s annoying I hate having to correct people but misinformation bothers me so much. We live in an era where nobody fact checks anything. They just hear something they like and run with it. Your fandom is notorious for this. 

[Bingo]

On 8/30/2022 at 3:17 PM, Badgalbriel said:

No no, even easier than singing other people's lyrics is being almost a cover artist. You get other people's melodies from 30 years ago, other people's lyrics, and voila, you have a new album. 

Such an ignorant comment 

[Wolf Alice]

37 minutes ago, Bingo said:

Such an ignorant comment 

Well yes if you take it out of context. Now read it again as a response to what that user was originally responding to. 

[The Music Industry]

1 hour ago, RihFenty20 said:

For *POINTS*, not SALES. what’s not clicking??!?!!?? 

 

Billboard doesn't attribute sales to artists, they attribute them to songs, so I fail to see the point you're trying to make with this argument  Bottom line is that features are weighted as less for artists for both the year-end and decade-end lists. Sorry

[Vroom Vroom]

The same reason Marsha Blackburn is one of the only female US senators 

[RihFenty20]

3 minutes ago, The Music Industry said:

Billboard doesn't attribute sales to artists, they attribute them to songs, so I fail to see the point you're trying to make with this argument  Bottom line is that features are weighted as less for artists for both the year-end and decade-end lists. Sorry

You're so odd. I don't need to argue just to argue. Decade and Year end lists literally have nothing to do with this discussion. This has gone on long enough so have a nice day

[tost1]

Because she's a lesbian!

 

Jk, dkdc

[Badgalbriel]

1 hour ago, Bingo said:

Such an ignorant comment 

It's sarcasm dude. The user I'm replying to said Taylor doesn't work hard because writing is not hard work. 

[besaid]

Swift has a large white Republican following since her conservative country days. That crowd fixate on one or two particular artists like Swift and Morgan Wallen.

[Ms. Togekiss]

Idk why people keep engaging with that delusional fuming rih stan. The Navy for whatever reason hates Taylor on a toxic level but anyway 

 

not only does she have the drive to release albums that the others don’t, she also has the talent to release quality music that people actually consume and demand more of

[wsurferwayne]

5 hours ago, kimberly said:

not denying Taylor's power at all, but I want to point out that Taylor Swift (12) has released as many albums as Gaga (6) + Adele (4) + Eilish (2) combined, lol. (9 studio albums + 2 TVs + two singles off of 1989 TV)

 

bigger catalog helps with bigger streaming total  

 

this is apparent because Taylor Swift's most streamed album is Lover, #56 on the all-time list. female albums ahead of it:

 

#3 Dua Lipa - Dua Lipa

#6 Dua Lipa - Future Nostalgia

#7 Billie Eilish - WWAFAWDWG

#12 Olivia Rodrigo - SOUR

#20 Billie Eilish - Don't Smile At Me (EP)

#23 Ariana Grande - Thank U, Next

#40 Ariana Grande - Dangerous Woman

#41 Doja Cat - Planet Her

#44 Rihanna - ANTI

#47 Adele - 25

#49 Anne-Marie - Speak Your Mind

#52 Adele - 21

yup i agree and besides none of her solo songs reached 1B due to taylor weak singles choices!!! She could have gotten at least a few 1B songs from lover and reputation combined even if she removed her catalogue from the 1989 era!!! 

[hungrymuffin]

6 hours ago, Ms. Togekiss said:

Idk why people keep engaging with that delusional fuming rih stan. The Navy for whatever reason hates Taylor on a toxic level but anyway 

this that user has a victim mentality

 

OT: because of quality

[Blue G]

On 8/30/2022 at 3:21 PM, RihFenty20 said:

It’s only Taylor Stans that have a problem with it. They think they know better that the institutions and like to invalidate record sales (a concept that was been around since the beginning of music tracking) so they can use chartmasters (who they parrot because that site, like swifties, think they know better than the institutions that created the concepts) as their source to proclaim Taylor is the biggest artist this century. Most people still reference record sales and know that Rihanna is the second best selling female artist and they’re mad cause based on record sales. She’ll *never* outsell Rihanna. 

Exactly.

[Blue G]

On 8/30/2022 at 3:31 PM, Klein said:

Equating a single sale and an album sale is not what converting everything into an album unit is. The industry literally consider that 10 singles equate 1 album unit. Sell 1 album and 10 singles, you'll get 2 album units. The concept of "record sales" was abandonned in the early-mid 2010s because the industry realized it means nothing. Everything is about album units now. It's not a stan issue, that's literally how the music industry is working.

 

If record sales were a thing, Rihanna would be considered the biggest female artist of all time, only bested by Madonna. That's just not the case.

No that's the conversion is. That's billboard. A chart company. 

 

The industry is artists and their record label who have been speaking in record sales since ever. And that'd 1 to 1. 

 

And the industry literally does consider rih the second best selling. 

[Bingo]

12 hours ago, Wolf Alice said:

Well yes if you take it out of context. Now read it again as a response to what that user was originally responding to. 

 

11 hours ago, Badgalbriel said:

It's sarcasm dude. The user I'm replying to said Taylor doesn't work hard because writing is not hard work. 

Hahah sorry, we're very alert these days because of Little Monsters and their constant trolling  my apologies 

[Pleeny]

I think the better question is why the GP doesn’t listen womens music

[Monster Queen]

On 8/31/2022 at 7:15 AM, RihFenty20 said:

It is the same thing. A pure sale refers to a sale of song, album, vinyl, ringtone etc. Record sale also refers to the sale of a sale of song, album, vinyl, ringtone etc. Yes, a "Pure Record" doesn't exist but it's just me combining the first two words and removing the word sale. Pure, Record, and Traditional all refer to the same things when regarding sales. Either way the point comes across. And I love streams, but streams are not sales. 1 person contributes to a Pure/Traditional/Record sale, but everyone contributes to streaming units. Streaming also allows an act to generate units indefinitely from a song while a song sale is one and done, no more value after the purchase. Streams can also be manipulated in a way that pure/traditional/record sales cannot via bots, farms, playlisting etc. I think they should be treated as separate entities and not converted into anything. I've always said this. 

 

Also I grew up around pop culture, I know swifies seem to have memory issues but I don't. Record sale usage was indeed widespread.  Look at the intro of the Rihanna performance below. They would constantly put banners like this when artists are featured referencing "records sold" among other things to highlight the act, even at award shows. And as I have said multiple times to that other user MADONNA herself used the word "records" when referring to her 400M records (Singles, albums etc) sold . https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/popular-music/article/abs/record-sales-in-the-1980s/B12D216DF66027A5AE9DB106E7F23C07 even this university essay from 2008 talks about "Records" the way I have explained. Idk why you guys are pretending that this wasn't a since the beginning of music tracking. Yes, records as albums is way more impressive than records as singles but Rihanna debuted in a time where song sales were just starting to take off over album sales (There's literally articles talking about the rise of song sales and the decline of album sales). Plus, Literally ZERO acts that have debuted in the 00s have moved 100M pure albums (H*ll, less than a handful have even moved 50M; in the same way less than a handful of acts from the album era have sold over 100M songs). Adele and Coldplay have moved the most albums but even they're over 30M away from the 100M mark. A bunch of people however, did move a bunch of songs. Rihanna is the best among them. If I were to say "Rihanna moved more pure sales than any other act this century" my claim remains true (and will remain true indefinitely). In the same way that it remains true if I used the words "record" or "traditional" instead.  I'm not invalidating streams but streams are streams and sales are sales. The latter will always be more impressive, whether as an album or a single. The fact that someone pressed purchase on your content almost 300M times is unpreceded and has only happened to one other woman (who is even more impressive because you physically had to go to the store) . The issue is your fandom loves to invalidate Rihanna for being the most dominant force of her era's main metric (song sales) but praises Taylor for doing the same but with streams. 

 

You know what is my feeling after reading all your post? The insecurity. No one invalidates Rihanna‘s domination in songs sale. The point is, this thread is about why Taylor Swift is the only female name among all this male artists which has nothing to do with Rihanna. You Navy rushed in, bring Rihanna into the conversation, and argued with swifties about those "pure sales" **** seems like Rihanna is more successful than Taylor cause she has sold more songs. Taylor still outstream, outtour and outsell Rihanna (in album sales and SPS, if you want me point it out more specifically). And ChartMaster is not the only one or the first one who translates streams number into album units , the Billboard, HDD and even IFPI does it. You says you disagree it, and who cares? Are you opinion more important than Billboard? You writes an 2000 words essay try to prove that adding up album sales and single sales together simply and crudely to generate the amount of "record sales" is a decent metric to judge artist's success. Yes, the concept of record sales has been used widely, cause it is a very intuitive indicator to GP who don't really care about the music industry. But anyone who in this site who doesn't have mental illness know that an artist sold 10 millions albums is much more successful than an artist who sold 10 million singles even though they actually have the same amount of record sales. Don't act dumb, please. And do you really believe Taylor Swift has ZERO GP support while her songs is streamed 36 million times per day ONLY in Spotify, do you how big is this number? Is her fanbase bigger than GP?  

[Monster Queen]

On 8/30/2022 at 7:56 AM, RihFenty20 said:

A number of reasons. The first is Rihanna moving on to change the world (her only remaining relevant peer + The OG Queen of Streaming and Queen of Digital sales). Two, her base is the biggest among pop girls. Even if she had zero GP support, her fans are enough to keep her career afloat (kinda like Nicki until the recent resurge). And 3 (the biggest point), streaming heavily benefits acts that release frequently. For example, Nicki is the 4th most streamed woman despite having only 2 streaming era studio album because of the volume of songs she’s released since 2014 and her dedicated base. Taylor herself has released 6 (soon to be 7) projects since 2017. The most of any major act (tied with Drake, another prominent streaming era act). Either way congrats to her but every woman has their moment. The early streaming era was dominated by Rihanna, The Growth era was dominated by Ariana/Billie, The Catalog/Panny Era is dominated by Taylor. Dua is likely the next one up. 

 

You know what? I totally understand what you want to deliver: No, Taylor Swift is not the most successful female artist currently, even she sells more album, sells more SPS, generating more streams, and more tour gross than Rihanna, Rihanna is still more successful than her cause she has more songs sales. It is queen Rihanna who let her have her moment, let her breathe. If Rihanna can write her own songs and be as productive as Taylor there will be no chance for Taylor to get the most streams female artist crown on September 3th. Rihanna is a GP artist and no one in real life know who is Taylor Swift. You can just say it directly and loudly instead of writing 2000 words essay

[Monster Queen]

14 hours ago, RihFenty20 said:

That’s fine. You don’t have you to agree with me, but don’t pretend that anything I said is false (not you, but the fandom). And I’m making things up to make my fav look

good. I don’t need to do that and her stats (and certifications) speak for themselves. Also don’t pretend you know who outsold who (in attempts to discredit my retired fav) based on the word of some random chart site (again, not you but the fandom) and their made up metric. Basically just stop lying (again, not you). It’s annoying I hate having to correct people but misinformation bothers me so much. We live in an era where nobody fact checks anything. They just hear something they like and run with it. Your fandom is notorious for this. 

Yes, Taylor Swift has more album sales, more streams, more SPS and more tour gross than Rihanna GLOBALLY, and Rihanna has more song sales than Taylor, just like Taylor can outperform Rihanna in every chart site including Billboard, IFPI or chartMaster with their made up metric, while Rihanna can held her quick little success in notorious Navy  glad there is no lies here, finally!  

Edited September 1, 2022 by Monster Queen

[Headlock]

22 hours ago, RihFenty20 said:

(not you, but the fandom).

(again, not you but the fandom) and their made up metric.
 

Your fandom is notorious for this. 

Being this bothered is not normal, you sincerely need to log off 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Headlock