charts discussion Why Does Taylor Overtaking Mariah Feel Like a Non-Event?

[Brikenbur]

10 minutes ago, Headlock said:

To make people like you fume

 

 

Factual findings, like, say, streaming numbers, sales, charts, the topic of this thread? You've already shown you won't accept those, so it almost seems like you're not actually looking for facts

 

Ok girlie and your way is to use my avi to respond? Which, to me, is the most seething. 

[Brikenbur]

11 minutes ago, JorgeM said:

If you are happy in your desilusion go ahead and don’t let that the reality let down you

If you are happy in your disillusion* thinking that there are millions of people who aren’t pop/country music listeners, but, know who Taylor Swift is, then don’t let that reality let you down. 

[fentypark]

bc when you look at the difference between the two’s talent (yes even their songwriting), mariah is leagues above that girl 

[MingYouToo]

5 minutes ago, Love Again said:

Might be. Lots of older generations always go on about how their music era + artists was better. It happens here too.

 

As for your second point, I don't know if I would call Taylor THE dominant force overall, definitely for women but she has competition from Harry Styles and Ed Sheeran who do great in touring, radio, streaming etc

Taylor has never fluctuated from Top 3 in streaming ever since folklore's release. Sure she was a bit on the edge with Lover struggling to take off but she became the undisputed consistent queen of streaming post folkmore.

 

She has no hits because she refuses to release hits and yet she has been at #2 on the IFPI charts for years with being #1 literally 3 years ago.

 

She could beat Madonna's and Ed's records in touring if she decided to tour more (the only reason Ed smashes touring more than Taylor is because he does like 4x the dates she does) especially in Asia where Taylor is inarguably the biggest name in Western music.

 

Harry does not have a 1M debut in pure sales and even in the 2020s, regarding the rule change in bundles post folklore, Harry's House wouldve still sold less than folklore had folklore debuted after the bundles rule. Folklore wouldve debuted with 790k-800k without the bundles and Harry's House came at 520k and thats with the megasmash potentially future IFPI #1 As It Was.

 

Adele pushed out all the stops for 30 and barely outsold Taylor's surprise release by 40k units (assuming folklores FW was without bundles).

 

As of 2022, Taylor Swift is THE biggest force in the music industry still.

[Headlock]

11 minutes ago, Brikenbur said:

Ok girlie and your way is to use my avi to respond? Which, to me, is the most seething. 

Queen Miranda's expression is quite apropos for the kind of response your posts deserve

 

[Zoe_]

Billboard's All-Time lists are scams to me. There were songs that were not allowed to chart because of "rules" before 1998. The charts have been manipulated since the beginning. 

[Brikenbur]

2 minutes ago, Headlock said:

Queen Miranda's expression is quite apropos for the kind of response your posts deserve

 

“

If you are happy in your disillusion go ahead and don’t let that the reality let down you

” 

[Material Girl]

27 minutes ago, brazil said:

I agree, I think a lot of tactics were used then and are used now. 

 

But that doesn't take away from the main difference between the pure sales era and streaming era, as I've said. Being a top seller for several months now doesn't mean you're being heard by several different people, as the same people could be listening/streaming your album continously and that would count for your sales throughout several months.

 

Meanwhile, even if some rare obsessed fans would buy a cd more than once, 98% of cd sales probably came from different people buying an album.

 

So although both Taylor and Mariah have reasons to be proud, their accomplishments feel very different. 

do you really think there’s just a set number of 1-2 million people playing one song that doesn’t change for months? be serious

 

a hit is still a hit and it’s still heard by “several different people”

[bluebirdsforever]

Because Taylor breaks a record every other week. I’m a quote unquote Swiftie and even my response was “oh, okay, cool.” 
 

Her being astronomically successful stopped being surprising or impressive close to a decade ago, which is why OTH are so annoyed both by her and by Swifties for bragging about all of that success. It’s a dead horse at this point.

[Headlock]

2 minutes ago, Brikenbur said:

“

If you are happy in your disillusion go ahead and don’t let that the reality let down you

” 

Not the projection coming out with you saying "disillusion" instead of "delusion"

 

[brazil]

1 minute ago, Material Girl said:

do you really think there’s just a set number of 1-2 million people playing one song that doesn’t change for months? be serious

 

a hit is still a hit and it’s still heard by “several different people”

Of course there is not a single set number of people, but there are millions of stans that will listen to the same song several times for months. I mean I myself have been listening to My Tear Ricochet and Exile for months now and I'm not even a Swifitie. Or you think people listening to Folkklore and Red noe are mainly new members of the GP just finding out about these albums? Be serious. 

[Arrows]

Because it wasn’t officially announced by Billboard, just some stan making calculations.

[Headlock]

4 minutes ago, brazil said:

Of course there is not a single set number of people, but there are millions of stans that will listen to the same song several times for months. I mean I myself have been listening to My Tear Ricochet and Exile for months now and I'm not even a Swifitie. Or you think people listening to Folkklore and Red noe are mainly new members of the GP just finding out about these albums? Be serious. 

We love anecdotes

 

[JC96]

First at all, if you don't like Taylor o you like downplay her accomplishments or her amazing 16 years of career full of success.... Well of course its not going to feel a big deal for you. 

 

Besides, there is not an official announcement, article or tweet. Just random accounts making chart points by themselves.

[KnightOfAllRealms]

Because Taylor has been consistently smashing for ages now so it doesn't feel surprising 

[Prisoner]

Nobody cares about mariahs 'achievement' either outside your little stan bubble

[sasashite]

Because it was updated by a random twitter account and because no one cares about Mariah anymore.

[Brando]

1 hour ago, Brikenbur said:

Nope. This actually is no where near the truth. I feel like Taylor just has a huge/loyal base, but, people outside of that could care less or don’t even know who she [Taylor] is. 

 

1 hour ago, spree said:

because Mariah is a legend and Taylor is not.  And "units" don't mean anything.  They were invented by Billboard to cover the collapsing sales market.  Otherwise their company would be useless.

 

1 hour ago, frenchyisback said:

Because Taylor feels more like a huge niche artist with a loyal public than GP darling.  

She doesn't really have a lot of general public smash outside of Red & 1989 eras.

 

 

Taylor can be proud of her achievements tho and I gotta respect her discipline.

 

1 hour ago, Bang Up said:

Because it is a non-event. Everyone knows that TS doesn't touch Mariah in terms of talent, creativity, or artistry. Mariah's rise to fame was organic, TS's was artificial. Mariah had to fight through sexism and racism all throughout her career while TS got to slide on by, by focusing on country music and then switching to pop.

 

It's a non-factor. No one cares.

The mental gymnastics 

[Material Girl]

22 minutes ago, brazil said:

Of course there is not a single set number of people, but there are millions of stans that will listen to the same song several times for months. I mean I myself have been listening to My Tear Ricochet and Exile for months now and I'm not even a Swifitie. Or you think people listening to Folkklore and Red noe are mainly new members of the GP just finding out about these albums? Be serious. 

the repeated listens from one account will generally add up to one or two sales for an average listener

 

1,500 on-demand streams = 1 album sale. a normal, average listener may reach that a few times over multiple years but i’d say it’s probably closer to once or twice because that’s a lot of streaming

 

you’re overrating the impact of obsessed stans and how much it impacts the charts and overall sales of an album because you think for some reason one person buying an album to listen to one song back in the 80s is better or more impressive than that person streaming the song today. it isnt

[Brando]

34 minutes ago, bluebirdsforever said:

Which is why OTH are so annoyed both by her and by Swifties for bragging about all of that success. 

This. Any Taylor achievement thread is flooded with sour responses from them 

[YellowRibbon]

Because the update hadn't been announced officially yet?... Also, I find it interesting that ATRL loves to ignore how complicated is to remain relevant during the streaming era. Universal access to music catalogues has made it significantly harder for artists to sustain a certain level of success overtime, from an "how long can I sustain people's immersion in my music" POV.

 

Back in the 80's and 90's (and even during the early 2000's), labels had an almost complete monopoly over radio stations all over the World, they paid radios and TV promo slots huge amounts of money to keep those who made it to the top, successful. Climbing to the top might have been much harder for artists like Mariah (who also happened to have other handicaps working against their success ,like systemic racism) compared to new artists like Billie Eilish, per example, but in today's age, when an artist's actual personality/relatability is a huge factor for their commercial success, it's only fair to point out that A LOT more artists have the chance to release their music (therefore there are more artists competing for the GP's attention) and reach the top fairly easily nowadays. A quick example of this is the way a lot of the GP's attention shifted from Billie Eilish to Olivia Rodrigo in a matter of months, something that would have been unthinkable in the times of Madonna, Mariah, Whitney, Michael Jackson, The Beatles, etc. 

 

With that in mind, I find it laughable how some people like to downplay what Taylor has achieved. She debuted right before the physical sales market collapsed, so by the time she debuted, she had to rise slowly in a music industry that still went by similar rules that dated from decades ago (excluding the systematic racism factor, since we all know she's as Caucasian as it gets). She then had to adapt again to the digital era that stormed the industry in the early 2010's, many of her peers made it to the digital era with her while a few others where left behind. During 2016/2017, streaming exploded and for the first time in nearly a decade she wasn't actively promoting music, leading some people to think that she had failed to transition into the streaming era. 

 

Lover and Folklore/Evermore proved them wrong (once again, surprise surprise) and she successful transitioned into the streaming era while most of her peers (with a few exceptions) were left behind in the 2010's. Taylor is not only sustaining a certain level of commercial success, a brand, and quality of music, she's still playing in the same league as all these new artists that have the advantage of being completely new personalities in the industry. 

 

Whoever thinks that Taylor doesn't have the most impressive charting history for a solo female artist in the US ,since tracking began, is in complete denial. Very few artists in history have been as consistent and dedicated as her. 

[Solaria]

49 minutes ago, MingYouToo said:

Taylor has never fluctuated from Top 3 in streaming ever since folklore's release. Sure she was a bit on the edge with Lover struggling to take off but she became the undisputed consistent queen of streaming post folkmore.

 

She has no hits because she refuses to release hits and yet she has been at #2 on the IFPI charts for years with being #1 literally 3 years ago.

 

She could beat Madonna's and Ed's records in touring if she decided to tour more (the only reason Ed smashes touring more than Taylor is because he does like 4x the dates she does) especially in Asia where Taylor is inarguably the biggest name in Western music.

 

Harry does not have a 1M debut in pure sales and even in the 2020s, regarding the rule change in bundles post folklore, Harry's House wouldve still sold less than folklore had folklore debuted after the bundles rule. Folklore wouldve debuted with 790k-800k without the bundles and Harry's House came at 520k and thats with the megasmash potentially future IFPI #1 As It Was.

 

Adele pushed out all the stops for 30 and barely outsold Taylor's surprise release by 40k units (assuming folklores FW was without bundles).

 

As of 2022, Taylor Swift is THE biggest force in the music industry still.

Always found it weird Taylor doesn’t tour Asia more considering how popular she is there. Like girl add some Philippines dates in there!!

[Brando]

4 minutes ago, Material Girl said:

the repeated listens from one account will generally add up to one or two sales for an average 500 on-demand streams = 1 album sale. a normal, average listener may reach that a few times over multiple years but i’d say it’s probably closer to once or twice because that’s a lot of streaming

 

I have a total of ~5k spins across Taylor's Discography and she's in Top 3 my most played artists of all time. So that's what? 3 albums? Streaming is definitely undercounting sales and those stans of the 90s pop girls have the nerve complaining about unfair sales. Taylor would have had several diamond albums by now had she been successful at a different time and dominated like she does right now 

[Badgalbriel]

42 minutes ago, brazil said:

Or you think people listening to Folkklore and Red noe are mainly new members of the GP just finding out about these albums? Be serious. 

Do you think her fanbase alone is big enough to give her more daily streams than any other female artist for years now?

A fanbase bigger than the GP. Isn't that the GP?

[gozahu]

Mariah is a LEGEND, that's a little difference.