anti-bitch Posted October 13 Posted October 13 10 minutes ago, Bewitched said: "Go ahead and do it, nepo" is funny ngl 5
Relampago. Posted October 13 Posted October 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, Communion said: You're then not discussing the same thing that leftists are criticizing, no? Which @Bloo has touched on. A rejection of hyper-partisanship is in itself not an endorsement of bipartisanship as understood in the crafting of policy. You're saying you take away that flaunting bipartisanship is good because the voters you speak with don't like hyper-partisanship. You wouldn't be allowed to, but next time you speak to voters, ask them if they like what bipartisanship looks like in practice. When you're door-knocking, ask them if they are fans of the bipartisan tax cuts for the rich Harris will be implementing. Ask them if they are fans of the bipartisan spending bills to fund foreign wars abroad that Harris will be signing off on, etc. You mention gridlock, but it's understood that Congress has historically low approvals *because* Dems have stopped seizing power and will not pass anything without the most conservative centrists on the other side. Voters don't like that. Are you asking voters if they liked the bipartisan gutting of the child tax credit under Biden? This is the same argument @Jackson stumbled on that ignores the elephant in the room: politicians act illogically because they can be corrupted by the money of donors. Majority of Americans don't like sending money abroad for war. Weapons sales still get bipartisan legislation because Lockheed Martin has deep pockets & lobbyists. Sis, the issue is I 100% trust your recollections are true, but it also feels like what you're saying to these voters is not entirely true in itself. Sure, voters will like it if you say Kamala's running to the right because she's actually rejecting hyper-partisanship. That sounds nice. Next time you canvas, can you tell the voters you speak with that Harris plans on bringing back family separations? And allowing people to be deported in just 6 hours? I think it would be important to see the difference in reactions of "Kamala wants to cut the nonsense" to "Kamala is planning to split up thousands of families". This is the kind of true-believer issue that causes partisans to inevitably come into conflict with leftists. Because you need to be a true believer to promote someone. Because of what I know of you, and that I understand you to be a good person, I don't think you'd be volunteering your time to someone you believe wanted to brutalize immigrants. The issue is that the actual policy Harris is trying to pass and push for would do just that. Going by the below, Arizona is the most right-wing leaning swing state and Wisconsin + Michigan the most left-leaning. Which is the issue mentioned before. Sure, stretch to snatch Arizona, but that should be your ceiling. Your maximum value. Harris is campaigning like Arizona is her center and that she delusionaly thinks Texas and Florida are somehow in play for her, even as she slips in the Rust Belt. Biden's bipartisan pandering wasn't as big of a deal because it was coupled with real, tangible progressive policy promises. Policy promises that Harris has completely evaded or even come out against, attacking many progressive left-wing stances common in blue states. These are actually good questions to ask, I'll note these down (I do alot of things I.. probably shouldn't when canvassing as far as rules are concerned but the scripts can be so ridiculous and ineffective in my experience ) However, I have spoken to people at my Catholic church (basically with an entirely Latino parish) about how Harris has failed to reunite children with their families, and why the bipartisan immigration bill wasn't something that should have been passed because some of the contents were inhumane and wouldn't actually solve the core issues of immigration (militarization of the border, jailing and hardening of innocent immigrants contributing to the transnational gangs, etc) The responses were mostly… "Oh isn't Trump harder on immigrants?" So I guess it just came down to them feeding into the propaganda that Democrats are actually welcoming in immigrants with open arms— again raising my main concern of this election which is misinformation. I'd also like to clarify, I only say "Harris plans to create a bipartisan administration to help guide her decision making" like it says in our bullet points, but I don't inject my opinions in that. It's just met with "Oh okay, that's nice." or "Hmm, is she trying to bridge the gap between the parties?" It's not really the same level of pushback that this thread has. I also agree that Democrats are allowing themselves to become impotent by not trying to gain power, whether that be because they refuse to push to expand the courts, abolish the electoral college, or what have you. Trust me, my posts here don't exactly represent all the conversations I'm having on the ground. I'm punching from the right here because ATRL, despite the VBNMW Crew in here, we're all much more aligned to the left than the right, so I take a different approach in here than what I do on the ground. I agree that sending help to foreign countries isn't a popular sentiment among the people I speak to either (on both sides) but they also kinda just… don't care that much either since they don't understand the implications of sending weapons or how it takes away from what they could have here. It's a lot of education that's needed but I don't have the time to do at every door. I also agree that Harris shouldn't be focusing the campaign heavily around AZ, so we're on the same page there. I thought you were saying because AZ isn't a blue bastion it should be cast aside, which felt shortsighted and dismissive of a state that just 15 years ago was ready to racially profile Latinos and ship them out of the country, to a state that actually has a ton of blue potential. To me, AZ serves as an example of how a red state can be converted to a blue state despite the country itself shifting right. And like I said, I don't particularly agree that Harris's bipartisan approach is a great one, especially when it doesn't attempt to make any concessions to the left like Biden… somewhat did. I just don't think it's the Achilles Heel that it's being made out to be in here. The real Achilles Heel is that she isn't breaking with Biden which should be a slam dunk for her, and if she loses, I guarantee in the post-mortem that'll be the biggest factor in her loss along with the economy. Many people who I talked to are in line with wanting her to show more differentiation from him. Overall, I'm on the same page, I just want to caution against pressing the red button every time Harris says something that isn't the most savory approach to the way people want to see her run in this thread because it largely doesn't translate to the same amount of panic and concern in the everyday people I talk to. Perhaps it doesn't help much, but it's not shifting people away from her in droves either. My entire conflict this election has been how to balance my values with getting small wins where I can. I deeply believe that not throwing out my vote in a swing state and using canvassing as an opportunity to do community outreach to present my values and ideals is the most power I can possibly have with the tools currently at my disposal. As much as I'd like to walk up to people with a sickle and hammer on my shirt and a black fist on a red hat in support of Claudia De la Cruz… I know that's not going to go over well and I'd be met with more threats of police calls and intimidation than I already am. I'm trying to meet people where they're at and slowly plant the seeds in their mind because many, many people are surprised at the conversations I have with them because they never knew socialist programs already functionally exist and even more are possible, while the other half think I'm a stupid young kid with no real idea of how the world works. I'm very much still tied to my values, but I want to be realistic in how these get enacted even if it takes years, but I'm not sure others see it that way. Edited October 13 by Relampago. 5 3
Lil Mistee Posted October 13 Posted October 13 19 minutes ago, Relampago. said: These are actually good questions to ask, I'll note these down (I do alot of things I.. probably shouldn't when canvassing as far as rules are concerned but the scripts can be so ridiculous and ineffective in my experience ) However, I have spoken to people at my Catholic church (basically with an entirely Latino parish) about how Harris has failed to reunite children with their families, and why the bipartisan immigration bill wasn't something that should have been passed because some of the contents were inhumane and wouldn't actually solve the core issues of immigration (militarization of the border, jailing and hardening of innocent immigrants contributing to the transnational gangs, etc) The responses were mostly… "Oh isn't Trump harder on immigrants?" So I guess it just came down to them feeding into the propaganda that Democrats are actually welcoming in immigrants with open arms— again raising my main concern of this election which is misinformation. I'd also like to clarify, I only say "Harris plans to create a bipartisan administration to help guide her decision making" like it says in our bullet points, but I don't inject my opinions in that. It's just met with "Oh okay, that's nice." or "Hmm, is she trying to bridge the gap between the parties?" It's not really the same level of pushback that this thread has. I also agree that Democrats are allowing themselves to become impotent by not trying to gain power, whether that be because they refuse to push to expand the courts, abolish the electoral college, or what have you. Trust me, my posts here don't exactly represent all the conversations I'm having on the ground. I'm punching from the right here because ATRL, despite the VBNMW Crew in here, we're all much more aligned to the left than the right, so I take a different approach in here than what I do on the ground. I agree that sending help to foreign countries isn't a popular sentiment among the people I speak to either (on both sides) but they also kinda just… don't care that much either since they don't understand the implications of sending weapons or how it takes away from what they could have here. It's a lot of education that's needed but I don't have the time to do at every door. I also agree that Harris shouldn't be focusing the campaign heavily around AZ, so we're on the same page there. I thought you were saying because AZ isn't a blue bastion it should be cast aside, which felt shortsighted and dismissive of a state that just 15 years ago was ready to racially profile Latinos and ship them out of the country, to a state that actually has a ton of blue potential. To me, AZ serves as an example of how a red state can be converted to a blue state despite the country itself shifting right. And like I said, I don't particularly agree that Harris's bipartisan approach is a great one, especially when it doesn't attempt to make any concessions to the left like Biden… somewhat did. I just don't think it's the Achilles Heel that it's being made out to be in here. The real Achilles Heel is that she isn't breaking with Biden which should be a slam dunk for her, and if she loses, I guarantee in the post-mortem that'll be the biggest factor in her loss along with the economy. Many people who I talked to are in line with wanting her to show more differentiation from him. Overall, I'm on the same page, I just want to caution against pressing the red button every time Harris says something that isn't the most savory approach to the way people want to see her run in this thread because it largely doesn't translate to the same amount of panic and concern in the everyday people I talk to. Perhaps it doesn't help much, but it's not shifting people away from her in droves either. My entire conflict this election has been how to balance my values with getting small wins where I can. I deeply believe that not throwing out my vote in a swing state and using canvassing as an opportunity to do community outreach to present my values and ideals is the most power I can possibly have with the tools currently at my disposal. As much as I'd like to walk up to people with a sickle and hammer on my shirt and a black fist on a red hat in support of Claudia De la Cruz… I know that's not going to go over well and I'd be met with more threats of police calls and intimidation than I already am. I'm trying to meet people where they're at and slowly plant the seeds in their mind because many, many people are surprised at the conversations I have with them because they never knew socialist programs already functionally exist and even more are possible, while the other half think I'm a stupid young kid with no real idea of how the world works. I'm very much still tied to my values, but I want to be realistic in how these get enacted even if it takes years, but I'm not sure others see it that way. The more I talk to people in my friend group, my parents, my cousins, co-workers etc etc etc the more I realize...NO ONE KNOWS ANYTHING. Like people just vote for who they think fits what they like. I will say its more laughable with the trump voters, but even the kamala voters r like "erm well she like....um...gay rights!" The Trump people genuinely think he has amazing policy and will help the economy while the Kamala voters are just voting becuz a.) trump bad or b.) something about a social political issue such as gay rights and abortion (valid but still kinda lol worthy). No one knows anything about how government works. I also find that every single person I've talked to agrees the Supreme Court needs term limits AND the Electoral College should be abolished...every...single...one... My maga coworkers, my far leftist friends (hi CUMmunion <3), my do nothing democrats besties...they all want it. I also find it funny how a few people (including my mom ) didn't know the Supreme Court doesn't have term limits Sidenote: I'm voting for Kamala because it's obvious to me Trump would be an actual disaster for EVERYONE and more personally, as a ***, I fear for my rights being taken away. 3 1
Lil Mistee Posted October 13 Posted October 13 Y'know...maybe Trump winning and ruining this country even more and then vanishing forever will get people to wake up and maybe we can get some progress going. Kinda like, it has to get so bad for everyone that people wake the **** up kinda thing! LUV optimistic outlooks 1
ClashAndBurn Posted October 13 Posted October 13 7 hours ago, VOSS said: Roe would obviously not be gone by now if Hillary had won, please. What would Hillary have done to protect Roe? She would not be able to nominate replacements for either RBG or Scalia. She certainly wouldn't have had a legislative path either. She'd be defending herself from impeachment inquiries her entire term. 8 hours ago, Tovitov said: It's certainly a fun hypothetical discussion. Your scenario makes it seem like we dodged a bullet, although we'll see how November plays out. The REAL fun part is that I expect Republicans would have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate if Hillary had won. And we would have a national abortion affecting all states that would never ever be repealed. In a sense, I imagine Kamala's presidency will play out in a similar fashion to how a Hillary win in 2016 would have gone. No judges appointed, no cabinet confirmations, and no bills signed into law other than far right fever dreams. 1 3
Lil Mistee Posted October 13 Posted October 13 1 minute ago, GhostBox said: Omg 💀 they just lie about everything The lana stan vote will decide this election
woohoo Posted October 13 Posted October 13 4 minutes ago, Blade said: I'd love to know how the others are breaking. Anyone have a guess?
Lil Mistee Posted October 13 Posted October 13 no offensing but the mail in ballots dont say anything about election day
Jesterpink Posted October 13 Posted October 13 oh my god i've been waiting for over two months to finally be approved and post in this thread!!! Y'all are so cerebral I've learned so much I just want to give everyone here kudos =') hmmm i guess to make this post relevant i'll say im disappointed in NC early voting numbers I feel like for Kamala to win NC she's going to need higher numbers, but IDK maybe I'm wrong 8 2
Blade Posted October 14 Posted October 14 Internal R polls that look....surprisingly good for Dems?? 1 3
Blade Posted October 14 Posted October 14 26 minutes ago, Jesterpink said: oh my god i've been waiting for over two months to finally be approved and post in this thread!!! Y'all are so cerebral I've learned so much I just want to give everyone here kudos =') hmmm i guess to make this post relevant i'll say im disappointed in NC early voting numbers I feel like for Kamala to win NC she's going to need higher numbers, but IDK maybe I'm wrong NC hasn't started true early voting. That's this week. It's been all mail-in. Started with military absentee overseas and now just regular absentee.
Blade Posted October 14 Posted October 14 The poll release calling Osborne "in the mold of Bernie Sanders"
Lil Mistee Posted October 14 Posted October 14 10 minutes ago, Blade said: Internal R polls that look....surprisingly good for Dems?? oh it was bad for trump
GhostBox Posted October 14 Posted October 14 (edited) The fact these are their internal polls which are always more favorable to their candidates 💀 Edited October 14 by GhostBox 1
bunnyeyes Posted October 14 Posted October 14 1 hour ago, Jesterpink said: oh my god i've been waiting for over two months to finally be approved and post in this thread!!! Y'all are so cerebral I've learned so much I just want to give everyone here kudos =') hmmm i guess to make this post relevant i'll say im disappointed in NC early voting numbers I feel like for Kamala to win NC she's going to need higher numbers, but IDK maybe I'm wrong Welcome! We're so excited to have you here! The mood is getting more manic as we get closer. The crazy thing about this election is that it's a true toss up so we have so much conflicting data; though I'm sure after the election the signs of who was destined to win will seem glaringly obvious. 1
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