charts discussion TROLLZ occupies the top 3

[Green]

32 minutes ago, Jumanji said:

Wasn’t Say So [Original Version] released on the Friday after the first week AFTER the remix though?

 

Say So Remix - released May 1

Say So OG - released May 8

They released a clean version on Wednesday 

 

https://kworb.net/pop/archive/20200506.html

[Nickimeetsatrl]

1 minute ago, slw84 said:

LOL you are trying so hard with alternative facts.

Your first sentence makes no sense and has nothing to do with what I posted. 

Since you seem to have trouble understanding my point I will break it down:

When people began using bundles for albums and singles, I was one of the people who called it out just like I did for streaming and the double counting.

 

Charts have been tainted before (i.e. not allowing black artist to crossover to pop, 75% airplay 25% sales, airplay only songs, playlisting). taint and tipping the scales are not the same thing.

When celine puts out a bundled album and is #1 and then #100 the next week that's tipping the scales. When 6 9 and Nicki, Doja and Nicki, Meg and Beyonce, Travis scott (which ATRL complained about), Weeknd tip the scales it's no longer a chart about measuring popularity. It's about who's stans are willing to participate in the stunts the most.

ATRL told me this wouldn't happen and I told them it would. Ha.

Pivoting to radio payola and playlist is not tipping the scales. Labels pay for play. People love to say payola but in a true scandal of abuse it gets called out. It's actually not occurring as a normal practice and going against the normal practice. Bundles do that because it doesn't replace it just adds to the stunts and detracts from the measurement of popularity. Stans are not a determinant of popularity.

 

Now I enjoyed this stunt with the savage vs say so thing because it proves certain artists with a commonality have to pull stunts to get to the top that others don't have to do. The only thing here is now 6 9 has benefit. It's gotten to the point where even a 6 9 will benefit. That's the most tragic thing. 

 

don't conflate with pivots to radio and playlisting when you know those aren't a metric that are geared towards using stan antics to make something appear more popular than it truly is.

 

 

 

so you think trollz is not the most popular song this week?

[AlexStexaul]

#1 debut coming 

[slw84]

18 minutes ago, Black Jesus said:

How is it not? Isn't the objective of releasing a remix to help get a song to #1, and isn't that exactly what is happening here? Sure it's only the first week, but let's not act like they release multiple remixes in the same week. The same final outcome is seeking to be achieved by both so 

No it's not. If that were the case there are a lot of remixes that failed to perform it's mission. Why are you comparing a remix that is sent out later in the songs charting to one out in it's initial week comparing oranges to tangerines. Remixes are out there for multiple reasons: the artistic reason and the other for peaks and longevity. I'm not getting your point of saying artist release remixes to get to #1...some artist have to in order to get to #1 but you seem to be conflating different ideas.

 

there's no point in pretending this is comparable to a remix released weeks or months into a song's success like Rockstar or even if a song is flopping and needs a remix to revamp it. 

 

 The thing is: Billboard allows this. The issue started with billboard allowing bundles for albums and singles to tip the scales. You already have different eras of charting where there was a taint opening things up for manipulation but all those exist now and artist have now added bundles to include in a measurement of popularity when it doesn't actually measure popularity. It measures popularity + whatever stans decide to mass purchase which isn't a Hot 100/Billboard 200 objective. Otherwise, artists would release their singles for 10 cents and albums for 25 cents but there are reasons why those wouldn't count. Just like bot streams are discounted.

 

To me, there's no bigger irony in how Billboard has allowed the scales to completely tip over in now we are in a pandemic and all of the artists who can't do it organically have come out to scam the game.

THIS is why Billboard should have changed the rules correctly in the beginning of the bundles mess

 

I love when my initial beliefs get proven. ATRLers tried to say otherwise but my point is proven with bundles as it was with double counting streaming and artist using certs of the double counting against older albums.

 

Trollz much like Savage, Say so, those forgettable travis song and that forgettable ariana/justing song continue to prove my point

Love that for me.

 

 

 

 

[slw84]

7 minutes ago, Nickimeetsatrl said:

so you think trollz is not the most popular song this week?

Luv, you need to come up with a stronger argument than so you think???

You can look at the stats of streams, radio, sales of the main song before additions combined and see why multiple versions are being included for Trollz, just like savage and say so and those forgettable travis scott tracks. I won't even include remixes. There is a reason 6 9's team and putting all of the stuff out to overtake the song that is going strong on all fronts.

 

I just love that people are completely scamming the game and that billboard is allowing it. Billboard won't allow a song or album to count if it's sold for 49 cents but will allow the stunts and trickery to detract from the legit measurement of popularity.

 

It's why so many albums and singles are going #1 now to begin with.

[Nickimeetsatrl]

2 minutes ago, slw84 said:

Luv, you need to come up with a stronger argument than so you think???

You can look at the stats of streams, radio, sales of the main song before additions combined and see why multiple versions are being included for Trollz, just like savage and say so and those forgettable travis scott tracks. I won't even include remixes. There is a reason 6 9's team and putting all of the stuff out to overtake the song that is going strong on all fronts.

 

I just love that people are completely scamming the game and that billboard is allowing it. Billboard won't allow a song or album to count if it's sold for 49 cents but will allow the stunts and trickery to detract from the legit measurement of popularity.

 

It's why so many albums and singles are going #1 now to begin with.

I am not arguing.

[slw84]

7 minutes ago, Nickimeetsatrl said:

I am not arguing.

I can agree but it's definitely not a strong argument so I guess I'll say it's not even much of an argument to begin with.

 

This really shows how billboard has allowed stunts and scams to occur over and over again to tip the scale and make the measurement less legit...and I love it.

 

Because i said this was going to happen last year and lo and behold the oldie was right.

 Haha

I just hate that the youth has already allowed 6 9 to appropriate hip hop and now he's gonna be rewarded even more...and it's being allowed.

 

Alexa play Janet Jackson's State of the world

 

But I do think after a few more people scam and stunt Billboard is going to actually put an end to the games. As I said in March in the hot 100 thread, anyone that wants to take advantage of this lull that'll occur in the charts (the charts are normally more active during spring and summer) better put their stuff out...and the ones that want those #1 albums #1 songs no matter the second week are doing just that

 

Now Da baby better not put out another version of anything to compete...let the chips fall whereever 

[Gaia]

4 versions, all discounted, I-

[Dreajae]

You shouldn't need a remix to boost sales after 3 days. This song has pulled out all the stops: video, remix, discount and will absolutely fall out of the top 10 next week.

 

And it just looks so suspect for Nicki to be apart of this conversation again. 

[mylicious]

trollz indeed lmao

love this

[professor2000]

59 minutes ago, Nickimeetsatrl said:

no it was released at 12AM on friday

 

58 minutes ago, Green said:

They released a clean version on Wednesday 

 

https://kworb.net/pop/archive/20200506.html

Apple says 5/8 (Friday) for both.  See below.  
 

Because I remember thinking they were trying to secure the follow week at #1, because it was too late for that particular tracking week (vs “Savage”). 
 

 

Explicit: 
https://linkmaker.itunes.apple.com/en-us/details/1512330209?country=us&mediaType=apple_music&term=Say+so+original&type=song

Clean:

https://linkmaker.itunes.apple.com/en-us/details/1512329645?country=us&mediaType=apple_music&term=Say+so+original&type=song

[Jimmy.]

1 hour ago, Green said:

They released a clean version on Wednesday 

 

https://kworb.net/pop/archive/20200506.html

So explicit + clean remix release = 500 versions?

[Nickimeetsatrl]

say so was definitely released at 12-1 AM on Friday

[MAKSIM]

44 minutes ago, slw84 said:

I can agree but it's definitely not a strong argument so I guess I'll say it's not even much of an argument to begin with.

 

This really shows how billboard has allowed stunts and scams to occur over and over again to tip the scale and make the measurement less legit...and I love it.

 

Because i said this was going to happen last year and lo and behold the oldie was right.

 Haha

I just hate that the youth has already allowed 6 9 to appropriate hip hop and now he's gonna be rewarded even more...and it's being allowed.

 

Alexa play Janet Jackson's State of the world

 

But I do think after a few more people scam and stunt Billboard is going to actually put an end to the games. As I said in March in the hot 100 thread, anyone that wants to take advantage of this lull that'll occur in the charts (the charts are normally more active during spring and summer) better put their stuff out...and the ones that want those #1 albums #1 songs no matter the second week are doing just that

 

Now Da baby better not put out another version of anything to compete...let the chips fall whereever 

We know billboards rules are all kinds of ****ed up. Another one is that top 40 singles should not count to album sales concurrently as they are counting for singles streams. Having a number 1 streaming song shouldn’t count for both. It makes no sense. 

[professor2000]

29 minutes ago, Nickimeetsatrl said:

say so was definitely released at 12-1 AM on Friday

Yeah.  Because I also know there’s another remix of “Say So” (featuring ANOTHER rapper other than Nicki ).   And I thought THAT was coming out that Friday (b/c sources told me something was dropping 5/8).  So I was surprised to know the OG Nicki remix was the one that actually came out at midnight   

 

 

[slw84]

1 hour ago, MAKSIM said:

We know billboards rules are all kinds of ****ed up. Another one is that top 40 singles should not count to album sales concurrently as they are counting for singles streams. Having a number 1 streaming song shouldn’t count for both. It makes no sense. 

Yes but Billboard allows it so it is what it is.

I wonder if 6 9 will release an acoustic version tomorrow...

[Michael196]

the fact that some people here are defending and proud of these AcHiEvMeNtS that are built on the obvious stuff... seriously??

[AlexStexaul]

2 hours ago, slw84 said:

Luv, you need to come up with a stronger argument than so you think???

You can look at the stats of streams, radio, sales of the main song before additions combined and see why multiple versions are being included for Trollz, just like savage and say so and those forgettable travis scott tracks. I won't even include remixes. There is a reason 6 9's team and putting all of the stuff out to overtake the song that is going strong on all fronts.

 

I just love that people are completely scamming the game and that billboard is allowing it. Billboard won't allow a song or album to count if it's sold for 49 cents but will allow the stunts and trickery to detract from the legit measurement of popularity.

 

It's why so many albums and singles are going #1 now to begin with.

so are you saying people actually paying for a song and buy copies of it worse than radio payola? ??? 

ok.  

bundles are made for fans. if they buy they buy. 

remixes are the real problem here tbh. they literally combine 2 songs charts points and its unfair tbh. 

if they cancel bundles then they should count remixes separately on Hot100. 

[Cap10Planet]

I would not be surprised if the airplay of "Rockstar" skyrockets this weekend.  

[slw84]

58 minutes ago, AlexStexaul said:

so are you saying people actually paying for a song and buy copies of it worse than radio payola? ??? 

ok.  

bundles are made for fans. if they buy they buy. 

remixes are the real problem here tbh. they literally combine 2 songs charts points and its unfair tbh. 

if they cancel bundles then they should count remixes separately on Hot100. 

you clearly don't get what I am saying but it's there so...what you think I'm saying I'm not saying and you are conflating the billboard issue too.

[slw84]

42 minutes ago, Cap10Planet said:

I would not be surprised if the airplay of "Rockstar" skyrockets this weekend.  

billboard has lost controlif da baby comes out with another remix

[VFAN]

5 hours ago, Rebible said:

disgustingly desperate. not surprised tho, this is onika petty were talking about good luck on that #1 girlie

You're really seething arent you

[duybeeGAshantiGA]

5 hours ago, Nickimeetsatrl said:

so you think trollz is not the most popular song this week?

It is clearly not since no one wants to stream it over Rockstar and many other songs. Its youtube views are super shady that's why BB doesnt count all of his views. 

[SignificantOther]

The focus on the #1 is a bit desperate, especially knowing that it will fall out of the Top 10 next week and no one will care in three weeks. Artists should focus on getting real hits to build their legacy, not these one week #1s no one will remember anyways. 

[Nickimeetsatrl]

30 minutes ago, SignificantOther said:

The focus on the #1 is a bit desperate, especially knowing that it will fall out of the Top 10 next week and no one will care in three weeks. Artists should focus on getting real hits to build their legacy, not these one week #1s no one will remember anyways. 

well if you are not getting playlist or radio, there is only so much you can do. Other artist are privilege enough to focus on longevity but the fans can only purchase a song that much times.