base talk Is Madonna more respectable than Taylor?

[Hey Babes]

14 hours ago, Solaria said:

Soon Taylor will overtake Madonna as the best selling female artist of all time.

Based on an unknown website duplicating streams value for the clicks LOL

[Raspberries]

They represent 2 different music industries

 

both are among the best female artists of all time and the most influential 

[Harsh2256]

There were times were Madonna hurt her own career multiple times for the sake of pushing boundaries. The erotica/SEX book, American life after the highly successful music, being openly liberal, the like a prayer song/video. Taylor despite whatever 're-invention' she does will never take half the risks which always made everyone stream her stuff and find her 'safe/relatable '

[EnterTheAttic]

Madonna changed the WORLD, not just music with her songs, art, music videos, personas, activism and altogether presense. 

Comparing her to someome like Taylor Swift is such an insult. 

[Jay07]

It depends on what you deem respectable. Madonna endured a lot of backlash throughout her career for being outspoken, sexual, standing up for women and the LGBTQ+ community but she was always herself, always a pioneer who never pandered and I value that over someone being so relentlessly business minded they constantly treat themselves as a product, never progressing beyond music for 12 year olds so as not to alienate potential buyers.

Edited 16 hours ago by Jay07

[Eternium]

15 hours ago, Solaria said:

Soon Taylor will overtake Madonna as the best selling female artist of all time.

She's nowhere near that. She's like 170 MILLION albums short. She is PUSHING UNITS, not selling albums.

13 hours ago, narid said:

I would add an asterisk to that first sentence.

 

'Soon Taylor will overtake Madonna as the CSPC best selling female artist of all-time.'

 

I don't intend to diminish Taylor's achievements in any way - which are monumental - but Madonna's sales are different from Taylor's, and historically that will always need to be acknowledged. 

Thank you! It's so important to note the difference in numbers. Album equivalents are not sold - they are pushed. 

13 hours ago, LittleStarmen said:

Taylor has only the current dollars, her respect is only bought just like her grammys

. In 5 years when inflation is double again she will be surpassed by Sabrina Carpenter AI drone album

While I don't agree with how you phrased this, it is important to note your two points: streaming is still growing rapidly and industry respect has been shaped by how much a label can pay.

 

The streaming records of today will all be broken multiple times over in the next ten years and labels will push other artists to get perfect reviews and sweep awards.

[Dante Silva]

Regardless of artist, I don't regard giving an album a stream as being equivalent to going to the effort of purchasing a hard format copy on either vinyl or CD etc.  I somehow went off on a stream of consciousness as I compared and contrasted how Madonna and Taylor resonate/d on society in context of the time periods in which they rose in ascendancy. This is just my take, feel free to ignore it:

 

Spoiler

As Madonna rose through the clubs, she was deeply influenced by the underground and exposed to alternative lifestyles, artists, gay communities, and people living with HIV and AIDS. These were individuals simply trying to navigate their daily lives under the shadow of a disease that no one fully understood. At the time, there was uncertainty about how it was transmitted, whether it could be treated, or if a cure would ever be found. Madonna herself had so little money that she posed nude just to pay her rent, all the while channeling the energy of the underground and leveraging the talents of her friends around her.

 

She fled repressive Michigan in middle America to embrace the cosmopolitan and culturally rich environment of New York. Madonna never deliberately sought a gay demographic; instead, she was naturally enmeshed in gay club culture. This was a result of her active involvement in the gay and arts scene through her friends and sibling, which shaped her perspective.

 

When she looked into the camera, her lived experience was palpable. It was evident that she came from this scene. She provided comfort and paid for the treatments of friends who were dying of AIDS, experiencing profound loss and despair. Yet, she continued working without ever allowing the weight of these losses to break her. This ability to carry such pain while remaining resolute is a testament to her strength of character.

 

Madonna never courted demographics with whom she did not share active lived experiences. She sensed the spirit of the times and challenged generational and sexual repression with unrelenting confidence. As a lone architect of a new age of sexual freedom and liberty, she stood in direct opposition to the shame and repression that minorities had endured prior to her rise. She did not stop at dismantling shame; she illuminated it, acting as a guide to help society feel confident in embracing their own truths free from repression.

 

She continued to question and challenge the psychology of repression and shame. Through her work, she nullified societal shame, bringing it tumbling down and paving the way for others to stand tall in their own truth. Her legacy lies not only in breaking down walls but also in shining a light on the paths beyond them, giving people the confidence to embrace who they are.

 

In contrast, Taylor is equally ambitious but benefits from the inter-connectedness of the internet, which allows her to connect with audiences far more quickly. However, Taylor does not originate from the clubs or underground culture. She hails from the repressive and conservative value systems of middle America. As an adolescent, she relocated from Pennsylvania to Nashville, a city even more deeply rooted in conservative traditions, with the conscious intent of immersing herself in the country music scene. She actively courted a country demographic, one often associated with regressive and traditional values emblematic of middle America.

 

Despite her transformation into a breakthrough artist and her embrace of the mainstream, Taylor remains acutely mindful of the core country audience that gave her an initial platform. Although she has transcended this demographic to adopt a larger international "Pop" identity, her behavior and conduct still suggest a deep-seated fear of alienating her original audience.  This fear seemingly prevents her from fully embracing an unconventional artistic space and being guided solely by her creative instincts without the looming threat of backlash from her core country base, who may reject anything avant-garde.

 

Taylor's song "Lavender Haze" offers a direct glimpse into this tug-of-war between her personal desires and the societal expectations imposed upon her. The lyrics hint at a struggle with an audience that may be more repressed than she truly is—or, at least, more repressed than she is willing to appear.  Taylor's artistic journey is far from complete.

 

It remains to be seen whether she will embrace her creative instincts and evolve into an artist unafraid of taking risks, or whether she will continue to play the role of an entertainer bound by the expectations of her core demographic. This audience, deeply rooted in traditional values, might disown her or even demonize her as "possessed" if she were to reconstitute her brand and let the pieces fall where they may.

 

The true question is whether Taylor will act upon her unadulterated artistic instincts and break free from these constraints or remain tethered to a demographic that values conformity over creative exploration. Will she embrace the challenge of leading societal evolution, much like Madonna, or will she remain confined by the fear of rejection?

 

Edited 17 hours ago by Dante Silva

[Chris]

4 hours ago, BnPac said:

spray their wings

Spray their wings or spread their wings?
 

[Loca]

4 minutes ago, Chris said:

Spray their wings or spread their wings?
 

Spray, in this case. Her music is dry as ****. 

[BnPac]

4 minutes ago, Chris said:

Spray their wings or spread their wings?
 

Lol...

[Pheromosa]

You can't compare their sales. This thread is a joke 

[Erreur2 La Nature]

Comparing pure sales to sales that come from streaming is stupid af 

[SpaceOddity]

21 hours ago, sugarysunflower said:

Madonna's impact will still be felt and recognised for decades to come. Yes, she is narcissistic but she always took gambles and wanted to take on risks against her own self-interests, even if it wasn't going to pan out. 
 

There's a reason why, don't quote me but it was either Rolling Stones or Billboard said, in pop culture for females there are two definitive eras, Pre-Madonna and then Madonna-onwards. Not only did she shift the same PHYSICAL units as Swift, she changed the game for females altogether from business management, the new strategy of the female pop era, how to create impactful music videos, re-establish the idea of a tour into a theatrical production, opening one's own music management company, and challenging the status quo on several societal issues tackling themes on religion, misogyny, pro-choice / life, sexual liberation, ageism, LGBT+ advocation, underground societies to mainstream media and safe sex practices, to name some. 

 

Swifties cannot be honest with themselves when I say this……………………..what is Taylor to be respected for, other than shifting a lot of units and creating a career that is in the benefits of her own self-interest, i.e., musicians' rights in contracts. Anything that she has done to be deemed positively is only when it suits her or is beneficial for a PR spin. Namely, YNTCD or the Eras Tour bonus scheme. 

.

[magazine]

[Bethenny Frankel]

Madonna is an artist, Taylor is a white girl

[Gojira]

Since Madonna has always relied on controversy and gimmicks to get attention, no.

[Chris]

Some of the replies in here.

 

Some of you are unhinged.

 

[EnigmaticAndroid]

13 hours ago, Loca said:

Spray, in this case. Her music is dry as ****.