discussion Why do we shame gay men (but not straight women) for not being attracted to fem guys?

[Mtjjproducer]

Im bi. I'm not attracted to fem men. I'm also not attracted overly masculine women either. Don't disrespect either just not my thing 🤷🏾‍♂️

[BlossomSoul]

I personally would shade a straight woman 

[Subzero]

You shouldn't be shaming anyone for not being attracted to anyone else. You aren't owed attraction from anyone on this planet, whether it makes you mad or not 

 

Now if we're talking about shaming people for outwardly being actually hateful/mean towards certain types of people or making them feel bad for being too ____ or not being ____ enough or just for being them selves, then yeah by all means shame them. They deserve it & sometimes even deserve a pop in the lip 

[Pikachoo]

I am masculine

I am feminime

I am a man

I am a woman

I am a HUMAN

 

as we all are.

we are us.

 

just be you and the rest will fall into place

[smartalek22]

To everything saying "straight women love fem men", straight people have a very different definition of fem than what would be considered fem among gay men

 

I've seen people say Charles LecLerc is so attractive to women "because he's a very feminine man". That man would NEVER be considered "fem" among gays
 

Straight fem is pretty boy features with "soft" personality not freaking popbase comment section

Edited 5 hours ago by smartalek22
Added a forgotten word

[Bitter Aging Twink]

21 minutes ago, smartalek22 said:

To everything saying "straight women love fem men", straight people have a very definition of fem than what would be considered fem among gay men

 

I've seen people say Charles LecLerc is so attractive to women "because he's a very feminine man". That man would NEVER be considered "fem" among gays
 

Straight fem is pretty boy features with "soft" personality not freaking popbase comment section

Thank you!! You're like the only person in here who gets what I'm saying.  Everybody else in here be saying shít like "B-b-but sTrAiGhT w0mEn LiKe FeM gUyS t0o!!" And that's complete bullshít.  Straight women DO NOT like feminine guys AT ALL in the true sense of the word.  They might appreciate a man who's more soft-spoken or in touch with his emotions, but if he's wearing assless chaps and speaking in the vernacular of a RPDR contestant, they will drop him like a hot potato…meanwhile gay men are "supposed to" be attracted to this type of guy, otherwise they have internalized homophobia/misogyny they need to unpack. 

 

When straight women say they like "fem" guys, this is what they're referring to:

 

 

 

When gay men shame us for not liking "fem" guys, this is what they're referring to:

 

 

No straight woman finds the second image attractive, so it's unfair to expect gays to find the second image attractive too.  That's my point.

[Shelter]

So is this the same for lesbians 

 

fem4fem. Do more masc women get offended? 

[Tropez]

3 minutes ago, Bitter Aging Twink said:

Thank you!! You're like the only person in here who gets what I'm saying.  Everybody else in here be saying shít like "B-b-but sTrAiGhT w0mEn LiKe FeM gUyS t0o!!" And that's complete bullshít.  Straight women DO NOT like feminine guys AT ALL in the true sense of the word.  They might appreciate a man who's more soft-spoken or in touch with his emotions, but if he's wearing assless chaps and speaking in the vernacular of a RPDR contestant, they will drop him like a hot potato…meanwhile gay men are "supposed to" be attracted to this type of guy, otherwise they have internalized homophobia/misogyny they need to unpack. 

 

When straight women say they like "fem" guys, this is what they're referring to:

 

 

 

When gay men shame us for not liking "fem" guys, this is what they're referring to:

 

 

No straight woman finds the second image attractive, so it's unfair to expect gays to find the second image attractive too.  That's my point.

They probably don't find the second image attractive because they are straight women. And he just looks like a butch in a thong. 

[Capris Groove]

I've actually asked a similar question to myself forever about why the body shaming discourse doesn't seem to apply to straight women. When one says they're not attracted to plus-sized men it's much more socially acceptable than the reverse. And the list goes on.

 

Don't even get me started on race. Countless times I've heard a white woman say some terrible **** about why she wouldn't be with an Asian man. Usually by putting her pinky finger up. It's terrible and somehow socially acceptable.

[Bitter Aging Twink]

15 minutes ago, Capris Groove said:

I've actually asked a similar question to myself forever about why the body shaming discourse doesn't seem to apply to straight women. When one says they're not attracted to plus-sized men it's much more socially acceptable than the reverse. And the list goes on.

 

Don't even get me started on race. Countless times I've heard a white woman say some terrible **** about why she wouldn't be with an Asian man. Usually by putting her pinky finger up. It's terrible and somehow socially acceptable.

Oh absolutely! In my experience, straight women are even more vile about body-shaming men than gay men are.  The only reason you don't hear about it is because straight women are more socially intelligent than straight men, so they know not to share these opinions in public.  But when you're their gay friend, they feel comfortable sharing EVERYTHING they really think about men.  I have several female friends and occasionally we'll hang out, get drunk, and swipe through guys on the straight version of Tinder, just for the kiis.  My female friends will swipe left on about 90% of guys while making "vomit" faces and saying how disgusting the men look on there.  Mind you, most of these men are very cute to above-average guys that any gay man would KILL to hook up with.  It blows my mind how picky they are. Height, race, income, age…so many factors come into play for them, and the most benign things will give them "the ick."

[Capris Groove]

2 minutes ago, Bitter Aging Twink said:

Oh absolutely! In my experience, straight women are even more vile about body-shaming men than gay men are.  The only reason you don't hear about it is because straight women are more socially intelligent than straight men, so they know not to share these opinions in public.  But when you're their gay friend, they feel comfortable sharing EVERYTHING they really think about men.  I have several female friends and occasionally we'll hang out, get drunk, and swipe through guys on the straight version of Tinder, just for the kiis.  My female friends will swipe left on about 90% of guys while making "vomit" faces and saying how disgusting the men look on there.  Mind you, most of these men are very cute to above-average guys that any gay man would KILL to hook up with.  It blows my mind how picky they are. Height, race, income, age…so many factors come into play for them, and the most benign things will give them "the ick."

True in my experience as well. Even the innocuous phrases can be quite harmful I find like beer belly or dad bod. If you touched a woman's stomach and called it a wine bod the room would fall into stunned silence.

[Jack!]

There's many arms and legs to this conversation, and it is okay to have sexual preferences and people can't control their attractions (we as gay people know that first hand) but I think the thing is that there's a hyperbole here because personifying "femininity" in men as someone who crossdresses, or does drag, or wears/is into make up is ultimately a deflection because I think many of us who have been active in the community for a long time know it's not as cut and dry as that. I know people would class me as quite femme, but I don't do nor am I into any of the above things stated. Whether it's my fashion sense, my music taste, my tone of voice or whatever that makes me come across as femme, I own it and it's fine and I'm not offended at the idea of someone not finding me attractive.

 

I think the main argument against "masc4masc" is whether or not you need to make your sexual preferences a bit of a personality trait, especially if the way you choose to express that is offensive to a specific group of people. It's like people on Grindr saying "no blacks, no asians". People don't need to publicise this - it makes them look like arseholes and, obviously, racist. I know there's an argument for saying not being attracted to someone who's more feminine is different, but that's where the argument comes in that having a preserved judgement on a specific mans emasculation would be inherently misogynistic. So, the point is, if you want to continue to chase masculine and straight presenting men that's fine - that doesn't need to be done at the expense of belittling feminine men though.

[Vespertine]

The great irony to me is that the stink about "masc4masc" is often coming from "fem" guys who are chasing "masc" guys and getting rejected. There's a strange sense of male entitlement to me, like everyone should be attracted to them, but they still get to pick and choose who they are attracted to.

 

For what it's worth, I consider myself pretty neutral. The gay versions of "masc" and "fem" are moronic anyways. "Masc" to gays can just mean muscular guys who go to circuit parties in jock straps  

[Carla Rosón]

Also sexual preferences may always be discriminatory, in any aspect, as harsh as it sounds

[Trent W]

34 minutes ago, Bitter Aging Twink said:

Thank you!! You're like the only person in here who gets what I'm saying.  Everybody else in here be saying shít like "B-b-but sTrAiGhT w0mEn LiKe FeM gUyS t0o!!" And that's complete bullshít.  Straight women DO NOT like feminine guys AT ALL in the true sense of the word.  They might appreciate a man who's more soft-spoken or in touch with his emotions, but if he's wearing assless chaps and speaking in the vernacular of a RPDR contestant, they will drop him like a hot potato…meanwhile gay men are "supposed to" be attracted to this type of guy, otherwise they have internalized homophobia/misogyny they need to unpack. 

 

When straight women say they like "fem" guys, this is what they're referring to:

 

 

 

When gay men shame us for not liking "fem" guys, this is what they're referring to:

 

 

No straight woman finds the second image attractive, so it's unfair to expect gays to find the second image attractive too.  That's my point.

To be fair I think no one in the world is attracted to James Charles 

 

No men, women or non-binary person

No one, nothing

 

That pictures smells

 

You should put a real twink like Troye or something 

[Pikachoo]

32 minutes ago, Tropez said:

They probably don't find the second image attractive because they are straight women. And he just looks like a butch in a thong. 

I'm a gay man and I don't find the second image attractive either. If I wanted a man to have a feminine body i'd date a woman

[Carla Rosón]

The funniest part for me about this masc4masc ordeal is that every single gay that likes to think of himself as masculine/hyper-masculine isn't actually as masculine as he'd like to think he is. In fact, every single gay guy I've met so far inevitably has at least a tiny bit of feminine manners.

[HonourableVomit]

3 hours ago, Trent W said:

I think a lot of women are attracted to feminine men

 

You can see it on how they follow k pop stars and celebrities like Timothee who looks basically like a girl in men's clothes

He really is not, he's just skinny and a bit dorky. Those are not feminine traits. Masculinity is a broad piece of the spectrum actually, just as femininity is. Those idols are not feminine because they dress well either, they're also incredibly athletic most of the time, and eastern expectations of gender are not the same as western, often more rigid than ours. 

[Colmillo]

Nobody should shame anybody for having preferences tbh, we all like different things, some people like femininity, some don't, some people like short guys, some don't, some people like twinks, some don't, and that's fine, not everyone has to like you.

 

 

Also, harassing someone because they don't like you for being feminine won't make them like you more, in fact it will make them like you less

 

[Mezik]

The reality is you're not owed having people attracted to you.  

 

I know for a fact, because I'm not a hyper masculine buff jock male, a lot of gay men are not attracted to me. AND THAT IS FINE.

 

Same as there are types of men I am not attracted too, and I don't owe it to them to be attracted to them. You cannot force attraction.

[Colmillo]

I know feminine gays that complain about masc gays not finding them attractive, but they also don't find other feminine gays attractive because they only want "masculine guys", would that also count as internalized homophobia or does that only count if it's a masc gay rejecting a feminine gay?

 

[Communion]

1 hour ago, smartalek22 said:

To everything saying "straight women love fem men", straight people have a very definition of fem than what would be considered fem among gay men

 

I mean, the entire point of this is that femininity isn't objectively one singular thing and largely a social construct.

 

There are plenty of straight women who would deem certain behaviors related to personal grooming and appearance as feminine, ranging from everything like highly-kept facial hair to getting botox, that plenty of gay men who identify as masculine regularly practice and - ! - see as part of their routine to maintain appearing masculine and sexually desirable.

 

None of these things are actually quantifiable or based in reality. In many cases, a straight woman's discomfort with her partner displaying "feminine" behaviors is with her association of those behaviors with assumptions about gay male stereotypes. There's plenty of instances where a gay man's idea of masculinity is a straight women's idea of femininity. 

 

Which is why this race-to-the-bottom is silly and the question of the OP doesn't make much sense. The hyper-masculinity of one's average body dysmorphic gay man simply often does not read as "masculinity" to your average straight woman, so what comparison is there? What is the point to tip-toe around that 99% of what gay men complain about femininity is explicitly related to their own discomforts in how homosexuality is socially perceived?

Edited 7 hours ago by Communion

[Cesar]

cause we are not in the straight community to care enough to comment on it idk

[toast]

1 hour ago, Vespertine said:

The great irony to me is that the stink about "masc4masc" is often coming from "fem" guys who are chasing "masc" guys and getting rejected. There's a strange sense of male entitlement to me, like everyone should be attracted to them, but they still get to pick and choose who they are attracted to.

There are plenty of masc, fem, and "neutral" people who call out masc4masc culture. Dismissing criticisms of masc4masc culture as people being envious ignores the reality that a lot of gay men only see other men as valuable if they're attracted to them. It's not just rejection from romance/sex, but also friendship/community.

 

This is a problem because some gay people (e.g., gay republicans) think that gay people need to uphold heteronormativity (read: gay men should be masc) in order to be worthy of basic rights, live a happy life, etc.

Edited 7 hours ago by toast

[Jotham]

I think it's because some gay men who don't date fem do so because of internalized homophobia/toxic masculinity, which straight women don't experience.

 

I used to not be attracted to feminine guys, but this year I started being into them more and more. They seem to be more confident and secure with their sexuality than masc guys.