base talk Why did Harry Styles win AOTY over Adele & Beyoncé, was it deserved?

[KatyPrismSpirit]

 

 

He beat out Beyoncé's 'Renaissance' and Adele's '30' when he won AOTY for 'Harry's House'. 

 

I personally think he deserved to win for Best Pop Vocal Album but AOTY was seriously PUSHING IT looking back… Like '30' by Queen Adele would've been an amazing winner, and even though I think Beyoncé released better albums than 'Renaissance', it would've been great to see her win as a reward for how much she contributed to pop culture. Queen Bey is a legend and needs to be treated as such goddammit.

 

I remember this win being so unexpected. And to be honest, I haven't listened to 'Harry's House' in ages. It was a good album though, and easily his best to date. 

 

Do you think Harry deserved this win looking back? And what is it that made him win over Adele and Beyoncé? 

[aesthetic bih]

Bey should've won. Renaissance is her magnum opus

[KatyPrismSpirit]

3 minutes ago, aesthetic bih said:

Bey should've won. Renaissance is her magnum opus

Self-titled is her true undeniable opus to me, and the biggest snub of all time.

[Mickie]

Harry's album is a boring dud. Rennaisance deserved.

[Mikeymoonshine]

As It Was is a great song but outside of that Harry's album wasn't good where as Renne is Beyonce's best album. She 100 percent deserved to win that. Her loss to Beck was imo understandable as Beck's album was great even tho ST was also great. The loss to Adele was imo also the wrong choice cos 25 was a bit weaker than 21 and not as good as Lemonade but 25 was still at least a decent album. This loss was ridiculous Beyonce should have won, that should have been her year. 

[KillingYourCareer]

Undeserved just like his mega success

[gab00]

Havent Adele won aoty 3 times?

 

I'm sure thats a factor whenever considering her.

 

I have no opinion regarding Renaissance as I never heard the full album.

[KatyPrismSpirit]

Just now, gab00 said:

Havent Adele won aoty 3 times?

 

I'm sure thats a factor whenever considering her.

 

I have no opinion regarding Renaissance as I never heard the full album.

No only twice. For 21 in 2012 and 25 in 2017

[cat1867]

Harry's album won because it was the most commerically successful pop album of the voting period and had the least amount of writers. That's the same reason taylor has won 4 times and why the grammys love billie. it's the winning aoty formula.

 

Pop voters are the biggest voting block and almost always rally around the pop album with the biggest hit(s) and streaming longetivity.

 

30 was hurt by the album not having much longetivity outside easy on me. overproduction of 30 vinyl despite the vinyl shortage  was a big negative narrative about the album.  and releasing at the very beginning of the voting period made the album old news by voting. 30 was considered a commerical decline despite it's good performance compared to its peers. 

 

Renaissance's chances were destroyed when the nominations were announced and it's credit list was a page long. Beyonce chances for aoty has always been severly hurt by her long credit list. i

 

GF Grammy voters also put a very high value on musicianship and hate albums with tons of co-writers and despise artists who they think have dubious credits. Grammy voters are people who participate in creating music and so dislike music produced by song shopping and writing camps as they consider it basically "factory made". This was explafied by Dianne Warren tweeting about renaissance ""How can there be 24 writers on a song?" 

 

Basically, for a big name artist to win aoty, the album really needs to be commercially dominant but also have very few co-writers and producers. for smaller artists from non pop/r&b genres, commerically success doesn't matter.

 

 

 

I am not endorsing these reasons but grammy voters are actually not that hard to understand. genre , commerically success, and "musicianship" are what plays the biggest role in determing winners. Grammy voters are not stans or critics but mostly working musicians. people who are do not make much money off producting, playing music, singing but are extremely passionate about it.  their preferences due to that , are extremely different. 

 

 

 

Edited 9 hours ago by cat1867

[LanaDelRey]

What do you mean over ADELE? she wasn't snubbed. 30 was a terrible album.

 

Renaissance should've won though.

[KatyPrismSpirit]

Just now, LanaDelRey said:

What do you mean over ADELE? she wasn't snubbed. 30 was a terrible album.

 

Renaissance should've won though.

Gorl lets not lie. 30 was pretty incredible. It was also very acclaimed.

[NextBish90]

Album of the year was too much imo, still deserved, but the album was not that good. Still better than Adele and Beyonce.

[Badgalbriel]

8 minutes ago, cat1867 said:

Harry's album won because it was the most commerically successful pop album of the voting period and had the least amount of writers. That's the same reason taylor has won 4 times. it's the winning aoty formula.

 

Pop voters are the biggest voting block and almost always rally around the pop album with the biggest hit(s) and streaming longetivity.

 

30 was hurt by the album not having much longetivity outside easy on me. overproduction of 30 vinyl despite the vinyl shortage  was a big negative narrative about the album.  and releasing at the very beginning of the voting period made the album old news by voting. 30 was considered a commerical decline despite it's good performance compared to its peers. 

 

Renaissance's chances were destroyed when the nominations were announced and it's credit list was a page long. Beyonce chances for aoty has always been severly hurt by her long credit list.

 

GF Grammy voters also put a very high value on musicianship and hate albums with tons of co-writers and despise artists who they think have dubious credits. Grammy voters are people who participate in creating music and so dislike music produced by song shopping and writing camps as they consider it basically "factory made". This was explafied by Dianne Warren tweeting about renaissance ""How can there be 24 writers on a song?" 

 

Basically, for a big name artist to win aoty, the album really needs to be commercially dominant but also have very few co-writers and producers. 

 

Grammy voters are not stans or critics but mostly working musicians. people who are do not make much money off producting, playing music, singing but are extremely passionate about it.  their preferences due to that , are extremely different. 

 

 

 

This, x100

[Frozen99]

30?  anyway, rennie should've won, bey's take on disco was amazing, it coined the term Jenaissance for queen coollidge, cuff it, break my soul with madonna.. it was perfect for her to win after lemonade and ST.. but i agree with @cat1867

[ONOPKA]

rennie deserved to win. the grammy voters are deaf, i fear 

[KatyPrismSpirit]

22 minutes ago, cat1867 said:

 

GF Grammy voters also put a very high value on musicianship and hate albums with tons of co-writers and despise artists who they think have dubious credits. Grammy voters are people who participate in creating music and so dislike music produced by song shopping and writing camps as they consider it basically "factory made". This was explafied by Dianne Warren tweeting about renaissance ""How can there be 24 writers on a song?" 

 

This is true tbh and so prevalent looking at all previous AOTY winners. Unfortunately also the reason why Cowboy Carter probably won't win this time around and why Taylor has so many wins. Watch it go to Sabrina or Billie this Grammys

[shoganai]

White men privileges 

[cat1867]

6 minutes ago, KatyPrismSpirit said:

This is true tbh and so prevalent looking at all previous AOTY winners. Unfortunately also the reason why Cowboy Carter probably won't win this time around and why Taylor has so many wins. Watch it go to Sabrina or Billie this Grammys

Yeah Chappell  (breaking artist with most songs only written by her and her producer) and Taylor likely with by far the best commerical performance plus the media painting a narative of her saving democracy from Trump  will have better winning odds than beyonce. 

 

her only hope is that all the pop albums spilt votes and people don't rally around one of  the other non pop nominees and gets all the r&b voters despite having a country album that the country voters won't support.

Edited 9 hours ago by cat1867

[Feanor]

34 minutes ago, cat1867 said:

Harry's album won because it was the most commerically successful pop album of the voting period and had the least amount of writers. That's the same reason taylor has won 4 times and why the grammys love billie. it's the winning aoty formula.

 

Pop voters are the biggest voting block and almost always rally around the pop album with the biggest hit(s) and streaming longetivity.

 

30 was hurt by the album not having much longetivity outside easy on me. overproduction of 30 vinyl despite the vinyl shortage  was a big negative narrative about the album.  and releasing at the very beginning of the voting period made the album old news by voting. 30 was considered a commerical decline despite it's good performance compared to its peers. 

 

Renaissance's chances were destroyed when the nominations were announced and it's credit list was a page long. Beyonce chances for aoty has always been severly hurt by her long credit list. i

 

GF Grammy voters also put a very high value on musicianship and hate albums with tons of co-writers and despise artists who they think have dubious credits. Grammy voters are people who participate in creating music and so dislike music produced by song shopping and writing camps as they consider it basically "factory made". This was explafied by Dianne Warren tweeting about renaissance ""How can there be 24 writers on a song?" 

 

Basically, for a big name artist to win aoty, the album really needs to be commercially dominant but also have very few co-writers and producers. for smaller artists from non pop/r&b genres, commerically success doesn't matter.

 

 

 

I am not endorsing these reasons but grammy voters are actually not that hard to understand. genre , commerically success, and "musicianship" are what plays the biggest role in determing winners. Grammy voters are not stans or critics but mostly working musicians. people who are do not make much money off producting, playing music, singing but are extremely passionate about it.  their preferences due to that , are extremely different. 

 

 

 

Pretty much this.

 

Personally, I don't think it deserved to win AOTY. Imo "As It Was" was much more deserving of Grammys, so it was kinda a big surprise to see that the voters decided to award the album in all of its eligible categories, while snubbing "As It Was" entirely at the same time too.

[MonsterNavy]

love harry down but renaissance deserved aoty

[MonsterNavy]

58 minutes ago, cat1867 said:

Harry's album won because it was the most commerically successful pop album of the voting period and had the least amount of writers. That's the same reason taylor has won 4 times and why the grammys love billie. it's the winning aoty formula.

 

Pop voters are the biggest voting block and almost always rally around the pop album with the biggest hit(s) and streaming longetivity.

 

30 was hurt by the album not having much longetivity outside easy on me. overproduction of 30 vinyl despite the vinyl shortage  was a big negative narrative about the album.  and releasing at the very beginning of the voting period made the album old news by voting. 30 was considered a commerical decline despite it's good performance compared to its peers. 

 

Renaissance's chances were destroyed when the nominations were announced and it's credit list was a page long. Beyonce chances for aoty has always been severly hurt by her long credit list. i

 

GF Grammy voters also put a very high value on musicianship and hate albums with tons of co-writers and despise artists who they think have dubious credits. Grammy voters are people who participate in creating music and so dislike music produced by song shopping and writing camps as they consider it basically "factory made". This was explafied by Dianne Warren tweeting about renaissance ""How can there be 24 writers on a song?" 

 

Basically, for a big name artist to win aoty, the album really needs to be commercially dominant but also have very few co-writers and producers. for smaller artists from non pop/r&b genres, commerically success doesn't matter.

 

 

 

I am not endorsing these reasons but grammy voters are actually not that hard to understand. genre , commerically success, and "musicianship" are what plays the biggest role in determing winners. Grammy voters are not stans or critics but mostly working musicians. people who are do not make much money off producting, playing music, singing but are extremely passionate about it.  their preferences due to that , are extremely different. 

 

 

 

this is stupid though. who cares if it has 50 writers, some of it are just samples. and making art shouldn't be limited to 2-3 writers cause having 2-3 writers doesn't mean the music is good

 

they need to change their "formula" cause its bitter and old. having samples used in a clever way like renaissance and having 30+ writers > adele and harry's boring albums (I love both adele and harry but 30 and harry's house are their worsts)

[Forever Winter]

Literally everyone else nominated should've won over this very mid album.

 

Voyage

30

Un Verano Sin Ti

RENAISSANCE

Mr. Morale & the Big Steppers

Good Morning Gorgeous

Music of the Spheres

 

All better than MID house

[Mr.X]

Harry won because he is the Godfather of the Grammy's producer's daughter though 

 

The mediocrity jumped out!

Edited 8 hours ago by Mr.X

[Støned]

They gave him the wrong award.

 

He should've won ROTY instead - Lizzo's forgettable song winning over As It Was? 

AOTY should be either RENAISSANCE or Un Verano Sin Ti. 

[cat1867]

47 minutes ago, MonsterNavy said:

this is stupid though. who cares if it has 50 writers, some of it are just samples. and making art shouldn't be limited to 2-3 writers cause having 2-3 writers doesn't mean the music is good

 

they need to change their "formula" cause its bitter and old. having samples used in a clever way like renaissance and having 30+ writers > adele and harry's boring albums (I love both adele and harry but 30 and harry's house are their worsts)

It sucks but I think it's literally that grammy voters sending a message about how they want the music industry to work. as working musicians prefer working in small teams and  dislike working in writing camps and having to shop around their demos. they dream of one of the two or three collaborters on an album not being one of 10 working on a single beyonce song who have to share half of the royalties with the sample.

 

Like songwriters get a set rate determined by law  so each additional writer reduces how much they get paid and samples reduce it even more since the sample originator often gets the majority of the songwriting payments.  so professional songwriters do not like artists who choose to add samples and additional writers and producers has it drastically reduces the amount of royalties they recieve.

 

For example, by law, the mechanical royalty rate  is 9 cents per song on an album and each writer's publisher will take half of the royalties. So lets say that Renaissance has sold that 1 million units. So the songwritings on Virgo Groove are collectively owed 45K .So say  you are Dustin Bowie who is one of 9 writers on Virgo's Grove and you have earned 5k . If Virgo's Grove had used an sample that payment would likely have been halved again to 2.5K.  For Dustin Bowie to get to be a song writer on a Beyocne track likely meant that extensive time in songwriting camps /demo shopping with most songs rejected  and likely waited months if not years to learn whether your song was included. 

 

In contrast, if you were Thomas Hull working on Harry's House and that album sold 1 million (in reality it sold more)  most songs only have two other writers including Harry and you have worked on every song.e wh You make around 15K per a song and around 200K for the whole album. You have earned almost 200K enough to actually make a living songwriting. 

 

Grammy voters want to be Thomas Hull not Dustin Bowie so they reward artists who create Thomas Hulls.

Edited 8 hours ago by cat1867