discussion Americans: will you be voting for a genocide supporter in November?

[ToMmY]

Ask the girl in your profile picture.

[heckinglovato]

16 minutes ago, ariananext said:

They're both trash and.. so are 99% of politicians in the world, not voting is still not the right move nor will it change anything. 

 

26 minutes ago, Blue Monday said:

I genuinely want to do what else we can do besides for Kamala, because we cannot let someone who openly uses Palestinian as a slur get into the office (in addition to the litany of other reasons that affect the entire world). And I don't want to hear about JIll Stein is not winning nor is she someone that can bring actual change 

 

28 minutes ago, Blue Monday said:

Again, I ask what exactly is the alternative that is realistically achievable. The electorate is between a rock and a hard place considering that it's not enough to just vote; the candidate needs to win the electoral college, which by design skews Republican. 

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, LustSpell said:

This is essentially how I feel. Pragmatism isn't taught anymore clearly

 

35 minutes ago, byzantium said:

In all likelihood yes.   The viable political parties in most democracies have some skeletons to acknowledge.  I consider myself a socialist and the biggest issue I have with the American left is how they oppose anything that does not perfectly align with their ideology.  My city was run by the socialist party for many decades and were far from perfect, but were pretty good for the city.  I feel like many on the left would rather exist outside the system than work towards a better one.  
 

Of course there is a time and place to be principled.  Personally I was not going to vote for Biden due entirely to his commitment to the eradication of Palestinians.  He crossed a line for me.  But Kamala is not Joe Biden. 

 

36 minutes ago, fijitears said:

 

These posts needs to be plastered everywhere, especially for US newly non-voters 

 

38 minutes ago, Aden said:

Yes because Israel v. Hamas is not the only tragic thing happening in the world and some of us have real stakes to lose. I'm so happy you're life is perfect and safe to hyper focus on this singular issue but not all of us have that privilege!

 

42 minutes ago, Vegvisir said:

some americans are about to speed run us to global nuclear war because they're single issue voters and the rest of the world has to watch it happen jfc

 

 

48 minutes ago, Blue Monday said:

By all means we're waiting for you to propose an actual meaningful alternative that isn't just yelling and posturing 

 

48 minutes ago, bjorn said:

End thread. 

 

49 minutes ago, bjorn said:

Oh this is not it-

 

I'd vote for the one who's for women's rights, LGBTQ+ rights, anti guns etc. 

 

 

 

50 minutes ago, If U Seek Amy said:

Yes I will. I am not a single issue voter and there is more at stake than Palestine. If I am getting genocide either way then I am going to do what I believe cuts our losses best rather than just let it go to hell under Trump. Not voting is not going to change what happens in any way. I respect your decision to not vote as that is your right. If you want to demonize me and others who do vote I guess good for you. Please proceed to do so but it is not going to change my choice to vote. You're just yelling at the wall basically. This is basically a daily conversation already in ATRL in other threads that goes back and forth unending

Would you go to the polls and vote for Kamala Harris (and advocate for her presidency actively) if she supported billions of $ in military funding for Mexico to carpet bomb majority African American towns in the US, in an attempt to ethnically cleanse black Americans?

 

If your answer is no, then maybe it's time to reflect on as to why you think American lives matter more than Arab lives!

Edited September 4 by heckinglovato

[Communion]

10 minutes ago, Blue Monday said:

Again, I ask what exactly is the alternative that is realistically achievable.

I think the point they're trying to get at is that there is no easy alternative and any discomfort experienced by Americans is dwarfed by the reality of what our nation is doing to Paleatinians in Gaza and the West Bank where now nearly 100k are confirmed dead directly due to war and as many as 350k will account for indirect deaths. Almost 20% of all of Gaza. 

 

I think the aim is that it is better to speak the truth and have Americans reconcile who they're deciding needs to suffer for Americans to thrive and acknowledge that factual reality - in the hope that such tension ultimately makes Americans rise up and demand better in their name - than to pretend something isn't happening. 

 

A vote to save abortion still becomes a vote to kill Palestinians. 

A vote to save LGBTQ rights still becomes a vote to kill Palestinians. 

A vote to increase the quality of American life is still a vote to kill Palestinians.

One would hope that being confronted with this reality at least makes Americans question why their survival and comforts has to come at the cost of so many others' lives. Why does American comfort have to be built on the body of mothers and children and people in the nations we help destroy?

[heckinglovato]

2 minutes ago, ToMmY said:

Ask the girl in your profile picture.

Average Kamala supporter turning genocide into a stan war  

[DevilsRollTheDice]

46 minutes ago, heckinglovato said:

As if I'd ever let a bunch of genocide-supporting Americans change my mind about their favorite left-wing politicians ethnic cleansing my people because of their cute little downvotes 

So you're not American and gleefully telling us to help ensure Donald Trump is elected again? 

 

Sorry, but this election has tangible consequences for many, many people. I don't say that to diminish the horror happening in Gaza, but Republicans and Trump will make that even worse, too. Netanyahu actively wanting Trump to win speaks volumes. 

Edited September 4 by DevilsRollTheDice

[BOOMBAYAH]

1 minute ago, heckinglovato said:

Average Kamala supporter turning genocide into a stan war  

That user has a point, lol. You idolize a woman who shares the same political values and worldview as those you're criticizing here. If you were truly opposed to Kamala, her supporters, and the Western-liberal philosophy behind voting for her, you would also denounce a megacelebrity who promotes that same political stance to her millions of fans.

[goldenrainbow222]

What are the alternatives? What is the point of this thread? Just to shame us for having two bad options? Not voting is no better, so please provide useful alternatives if you're going to post pointless stuff like this. 

[heckinglovato]

Just now, BOOMBAYAH said:

That user has a point, lol. You idolize a woman who shares the same political values and worldview as those you're criticizing here. If you were truly opposed to Kamala, her supporters, and the Western-liberal philosophy behind voting for her, you would also denounce a megacelebrity who promotes that same political stance to her millions of fans.

I've denounced Ariana, Demi (my main fave), Taylor, and many others here on ATRL and elsewhere for their complicity in genocide. 

 

Says a lot about your character though that you would rather spend time discussing the nuances of stan wars to shame a Palestinian speaking on his people's right to live, than doing (literally) anything else deemed productive to this conversation  

[heckinglovato]

Just now, goldenrainbow222 said:

What are the alternatives? What is the point of this thread? Just to shame us for having two bad options? Not voting is no better, so please provide useful alternatives if you're going to post pointless stuff like this. 

The alternative is not voting. Once again:

 

Would you go to the polls and vote for Kamala Harris (and advocate for her presidency actively) if she supported billions of $ in military funding for Mexico to carpet bomb majority African American towns in the US, in an attempt to ethnically cleanse black Americans?

 

If your answer is no, then maybe it's time to reflect on as to why you think American lives matter more than Arab lives!

[BionicWooHoo]

same discussion every four years 

[Dancehall Queen]

When Trump was running against Hillary, I was in undergrad. Everyone was bragging about writing in joke candidates or just not voting at all. The common opinion was that both candidates were the same and represented all the evils of the US. Everyone assumed Hillary would win, BUT many actually hoped for a Trump victory. People thought a Trump victory would lead to a societal collapse that would awaken everyone and lead to the end of capitalism. 
 

When Biden was still running against Trump earlier this year, I saw a return of a lot of the same opinions. They're both the same, but at least if we get Trump society will collapse and capitalism will end. 
 

I'm bringing this up because this apathy and don't vote campaigns don't inspire much else. Like there's this idea ~ I'm being revolutionary by not voting and that will lead to a revolution but no further mobilization. Don't vote isn't really a call to action that is community focused or action related. If anything it just inspires people to do less in general and stop caring about anyone else. 

[Communion]

12 minutes ago, DevilsRollTheDice said:

So you're not American and gleefully telling us to help ensure Donald Trump is elected again? 

 

Sorry, but this election has tangible consequences for many, many people. I don't say that to diminish the horror happening in Gaze, but Republicans and Trump will make that even worse, too. Netanyahu actively wanting Trump to win speaks volumes. 

Do you think Donald Trump would kill over 67 Million Americans (20% of the US) like the Biden-Harris admin has similarly overseen and enabled in Gaza?

 

If not, why should Palestinians and Palestinian diaspora feel sympathy for the discomfort a Trump presidency would bring to Americans? 

 

Why are Americans more entitled to safety and physical comfort than Palestinians, those who are dying at the hands of American bombs?

 

I think people don't get that lashing out at OP is in itself revealing a lack of emotional intelligence on the end of users who do it. Everyone is entitled to vote for who they want but they're not entitled to feel good over who they vote for. A Christian Palestinian user who has written about their grandfather being ethnically cleansed from the land by Israel and whose lineage suffers due to Harris isn't who is making the average American have to pick between two warmongers. 

 

Palestinians' existence isn't a political inconvenience. If the question of the OP upsets you or makes you uncomfortable, the inconvenience is that of Kamala Harris being a genocider. 

Edited September 4 by Communion

[Miss Show Business]

The choice is pretty simple, actually:

Donald Trump: says Israel should "finish the job"

Kamala Harris: has been calling for a ceasefire and an end to the suffering in Gaza.

[Sprite]

1 hour ago, heckinglovato said:

Will you be voting for Trump (someone who supported universal healthcare but now opposes it) or Kamala (someone who supported universal healthcare but now opposes it as well)?

Is there really strong case against prosecuting undocumented immigrants? Isn't that what happens to people who break the law?

[Redstreak]

Yes absolutely

[shookspeare]

Well yes, next question

[heckinglovato]

1 minute ago, Miss Show Business said:

The choice is pretty simple, actually:

Donald Trump: says Israel should "finish the job"

Kamala Harris: has been calling for a ceasefire and an end to the suffering in Gaza.

Calling for a ceasefire in Gaza while simultaneously supporting m unlimited weapons funding of the genocide is the equivalent of condemning a fire instead of calling the firefighters 

 

Hope this helps!

[heckinglovato]

1 minute ago, Redstreak said:

Yes absolutely

1 minute ago, shookspeare said:

Well yes, next question

Thanks for requesting the next question, here you go:

 

 

20 minutes ago, heckinglovato said:

Would you go to the polls and vote for Kamala Harris (and advocate for her presidency actively) if she supported billions of $ in military funding for Mexico to carpet bomb majority African American towns in the US, in an attempt to ethnically cleanse black Americans?

 

If your answer is no, then maybe it's time to reflect on as to why you think American lives matter more than Arab lives!

 

[Khal]

You're the purest, most moral person to have ever existed, here's your cookie

[Redstreak]

1 minute ago, heckinglovato said:

Thanks for requesting the next question, here you go:

 

 

 

Only if she also plans to send all gay people to Madagascar

[heckinglovato]

2 minutes ago, Redstreak said:

Only if she also plans to send all gay people to Madagascar

So you're saying there is a scenario where you would support the ethnic cleaning of black people? If LGBTQ+ people remained unharmed in Madagascar?

[Redstreak]

1 minute ago, heckinglovato said:

So you're saying there is a scenario where you would support the ethnic cleaning of black people? If LGBTQ+ people remained unharmed in Madagascar?

Why would I want them unharmed? She needs to build at least two concentration camps there

Edited September 4 by Redstreak

[shyboi]

We will not, am I right bestianas? 

 

 

[Laura Palmer]

Oh shut the **** up 

[BOOMBAYAH]

3 minutes ago, heckinglovato said:

I've denounced Ariana, Demi (my main fave), Taylor, and many others here on ATRL and elsewhere for their complicity in genocide. 

 

Says a lot about your character though that you would rather spend time discussing the nuances of stan wars to shame a Palestinian speaking on his people's right to live, than doing (literally) anything else deemed productive to this conversation  

Fair enough. I just assumed that, since your profile picture is Ariana and this is primarily a pop music forum, your focus here would be more on stanning rather than politics. My bad.

 

3 minutes ago, heckinglovato said:

The alternative is not voting. Once again:

 

 

Would you go to the polls and vote for Kamala Harris (and advocate for her presidency actively) if she supported billions of $ in military funding for Mexico to carpet bomb majority African American towns in the US, in an attempt to ethnically cleanse black Americans?

 

If your answer is no, then maybe it's time to reflect on as to why you think American lives matter more than Arab lives!

This argument seems like virtue signaling. It might make sense if everyone were on board with not voting, potentially leading to a revolution, but that's not the reality right now and likely won't be in November. People will vote, and either Trump or Kamala will be president in a few months, so not voting in this case is essentially throwing away your vote. I understand your point that both sides will support Israel, and I get why some people might choose not to vote, but I'm not going to criticize those who vote for Kamala. The reality is that Kamala is likely to be better on domestic women's, racial, and queer rights. The U.S. will be different depending on who is president and which party has more influence. It doesn't make sense to call liberal or progressive Americans who choose to vote for the option that won't drag the nation into a white nationalist Christian state dumb, inhumane, or evil, especially when they have no other viable option at this time and particularly if they belong to a group that is likely to be marginalized under Trump (queer, Black, Latino, female, etc.). Ideally, America would have a candidate who is better on Palestine than either of the current options, but that's not the case. So, you might as well vote for the person who is at least more likely to advocate for marginalized groups and has some chance of influencing a more decent stance on the Palestine-Israel conflict than one who is outright insane and conservative.