ATRL Moderator khalyan Posted August 18 ATRL Moderator Posted August 18 1 minute ago, Communion said: Palestinians currently face under Israel no matter Harris or Trump take power. So you truly think that Kamala Harris would be as bad for Palestine as Donald Trump would be? I'd like a clear answer: what would an average American in a swing state need to vote for in November to help the Palestinian people? 8 1
cyberraga Posted August 18 Posted August 18 9 minutes ago, Communion said: I'm sure you believe that. The issue is the hypocrisy in denying Palestinians the right to believe Hamas is better for them than a Holocaust ushered in by Israel. This being important because the person you're electing will then try and deny objective reality and deny Palestinians their self-determination. Palestinians would be more justified in their support of Hamas than any American claiming to care about Palestine in their support of Harris in her current views. You're not being victimized. You're not facing the kind of political violence you have imagined you will under Trump than Palestinians currently face under Israel no matter Harris or Trump take power. The dismantling of American egoism and hegemony is required for the social contract of American liberals to claim "I just care about domestic policies!". Yeah yeah okay keep running interference for a terrorist group that Israel literally admitted to propping up 1 1 2
Communion Posted August 18 Posted August 18 (edited) 19 minutes ago, khalyan said: Also, why are the Palestinian voices in the source I provided disregarded? So much for "listening to Palestinian voices" No one is being disregarded. It's being addressed that this action you're doing leads to de-centralizing Palestinians from their liberation movement, and is more-so aimed as easing American cultural and political sensitivities than addressing the material suffering of the Palestinian people. Which is why it's odd to defer to informal surveying of individuals while not engaging with the significant amount of data in formal polling that would suggest a different outcome than what you're suggesting. I have no issue with people voting for Kamala out of wanting to improve their own lives. Voting is transactional. I get the nuance. It veers into perverse territory though to try and inverse objective reality and frame one's vote as an American for any political outcome as somehow done in the name of Palestinians and for their benefit, especially when one's identity as an America is predicated on the exploitation of those within the Global South like Palestinians. 13 minutes ago, khalyan said: So you truly think that Kamala Harris would be as bad for Palestine as Donald Trump would be? I'd like a clear answer: what would an average American in a swing state need to vote for in November to help the Palestinian people? Formal data shows me that the vast majority of Palestinians aren't interested in boutique elections occurring in the countries bombing them and have the main goal of dismantling the Zionist entity killing their families and achieving this now, after years of attempted peacekeeping, through violent resistance. Most Palestinians do not want to live under Israel. They do not want to live next to Israel. They want to dismantle Israel. Any citizen of a nation who does not recognize this goal cannot be allied with Palestinians, let alone if not pushing any politician in their nation to support this goal. As an American whose national identity is formed around the material exploiting of people like Palestinians, the least owed to them is my silence and deference to their cause. Edited August 18 by Communion 2 5
Communion Posted August 18 Posted August 18 4 minutes ago, cyberraga said: Yeah yeah okay keep running interference for a terrorist group that Israel literally admitted to propping up "Voting for the lesser evil for me, but not for thee" Wait until you find out how many Democratic politicians have the same donor pool as Republicans! 2 1
toxicgenie Posted August 18 Author Posted August 18 (edited) 1 hour ago, Princess Aurora said: nnnnn The way many of his voters will hate this because they're antisemitic and hate both countries (Israel & Palestine) 9 minutes ago, harwee said: Funny cause nearly every MAGa i know is anti-semitic. MAGAs/incels hate both muslims and jewish people LBR. However, being antisemitic is not the same as being anti-Israel. They will always be pro-Israel, because the Christian end-of-times prophesies say Israel has to exist for those events to happen. Edited August 18 by toxicgenie 2
ATRL Moderator khalyan Posted August 18 ATRL Moderator Posted August 18 3 minutes ago, Communion said: No one is being disregarded. It's being addressed that this action you're doing leads to de-centralizing Palestinians from their liberation movement, and is more-so aimed as easing American cultural and political sensitivities than addressing the material suffering of the Palestinian people. Which is why it's odd to defer to informal surveying of individuals while not engaging with the significant amount of data in formal polling that would suggest a different outcome than what you're suggesting. I have no issue with people voting for Kamala out of wanting to improve their own lives. Voting is transactional. I get the nuance. It veers into perverse territory though to try and inverse objective reality and frame one's vote as an American for any political outcome as somehow done in the name of Palestinians and for their benefit, especially when one's identity as an America is predicated on the exploitation of those within the Global South like Palestinians. Formal data shows me that the vast majority of Palestinians aren't interested in boutique elections occurring in the countries bombing them and have the main goal of dismantling the Zionist entity killing their families and achieving this now, after years of attempted peacekeeping, through violent resistance. 1. There is no data that I can find recently that has surveys of how Palestinians want us to vote, so we have to relay on these informal surveys to listen to their needs in this specific election. Data from before Obama's first term is not accurate enough. 2. I asked a simple question - who should swing state Americans vote for in this election to provide the best help to the people of Palestine, and you were unable to answer that question in the quote above. Do you want to try again, or will you continue to refuse to answer? 5 4
shimind Posted August 18 Posted August 18 Kamala will also continue to donate billions to Israel for continuing the war so how is this any bad anyway? both are the same... the difference is one is trying to hide their real face by doing some tik tok shimmy shimmy memes 1 2 1
toxicgenie Posted August 18 Author Posted August 18 If you listen to what Trump is saying. He will send US troops to Gaza. So NO, they are not the same. Pay attention between the lines! 3
Communion Posted August 18 Posted August 18 (edited) 11 minutes ago, khalyan said: 2. I asked a simple question - who should swing state Americans vote for in this election to provide the best help to the people of Palestine, American national identity is built upon the suffering of Palestinians. There's no scenario where you or I get to *benefit* as an American and which a Palestinian also gets to benefit. The question you're asking is asked on a false understanding between the material relationship between the nation we're citizens of and Palestinians. Palestinians are being occupied and genocided by a vassal state of the US. A vassal state that exists for your and mine material benefit. The liberation of the Palestinian people will come with the weakening of the American superpower and its oppressive presence in the Middle East. There is no scenario where - based on Palestinians' own goals when polled - how swing state Americans vote is relevant, nor offer reprieve for Palestinians. Americans in swing states should vote for whoever is going to make their own lives better. While also accepting the current policies of Harris and Trump offer no meaningful difference for the people within the various countries their government is aiding in bombing. If any swing state American is actually committed to addressing the material suffering of Palestinians, they'd be willing to endure the discomfort that comes with risking a Trump presidency to force Harris to change American policy about the funding of the Israeli settler-colony and the subjugation of the Palestinian people. Americans don't have to be committed to Palestinians. Palestinians then though don't have to answer to Americans in how they choose to free themselves. Edited August 18 by Communion 2 1
Princess Aurora Posted August 18 Posted August 18 3 minutes ago, toxicgenie said: MAGAs/incels hate both muslims and jewish people LBR. However, being antisemitic is not the same as being anti-Israel. They will always be pro-Israel, because the Christian end-of-times prophesies say Israel has to exist for those events to happen. So basically you're saying that they don't care about anti-semitism yet they care about a country that was founded by Jewish people? Are their brains rotten? cause it makes no sense...
Archetype Posted August 18 Posted August 18 5 minutes ago, shimind said: Kamala will also continue to donate billions to Israel for continuing the war so how is this any bad anyway? both are the same... the difference is one is trying to hide their real face by doing some tik tok shimmy shimmy memes One of these people wants to send US troops to help destroy Palestine AND deport you if you disagree with him on the matter, the second half of it should concern any American considering that would be a direction violation of their constitutional rights 5
Archetype Posted August 18 Posted August 18 Casual reminder that anyone who thinks threatening a protest vote for Trump to "make Kamala move her policy" to be less favorable of Israel is a clown. The "both are the same" and "we won't support the lesser evil" is a ******* ego issue, I can't stand ya'll. 6
harwee Posted August 18 Posted August 18 29 minutes ago, toxicgenie said: MAGAs/incels hate both muslims and jewish people LBR. However, being antisemitic is not the same as being anti-Israel. They will always be pro-Israel, because the Christian end-of-times prophesies say Israel has to exist for those events. You maybe giving them too much credit. Its hard to quantify this by mere fact that both sides are foreign for them to rationalize. Its all "i hate foreigners", anything more would be like goldfish understanding quantum physics. I had to convince a religious christian pal that the Palestinian crisis has nothing to do with Mexico in spite of their flags having similar colors (thats an actual conversation ). They don't understand it if it slaps them in the face. That's how cheeto gets away with every issue. 2
Communion Posted August 18 Posted August 18 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Archetype said: Casual reminder that anyone who thinks threatening a protest vote for Trump to "make Kamala move her policy" to be less favorable of Israel is a clown. The "both are the same" and "we won't support the lesser evil" is a ******* ego issue, I can't stand ya'll. No wonder some of y'all are so mad to the point of delusion. You've baselessly convinced yourself there's some meaningful cohort out there that's both anti-genocide planning to vote for Trump. 99.5% of people who are so distraught over genocide that it's impacting their vote are not going to go into the voting booth and fill out the circle next to Trump's name. Please be serious. Edited August 18 by Communion 1 2 6
Space Cowboy Posted August 18 Posted August 18 1 hour ago, Communion said: Ah, so this was referencing the informal surveying being referenced! Thank you for confirming! I hope we can all then agree to also listen to Palestinian voices in their support for Hamas' willingness to lead the Palestinian resistance and see the end of the Zionist entity. Hamas are a terrorist organization and they must be destroyed, but go off sis 2 4
Communion Posted August 18 Posted August 18 19 minutes ago, Space Cowboy said: Hamas are a terrorist organization and they must be destroyed, but go off sis Wait until you find out how many people in the world feel such a statement applies to the US Democratic Party. 2
A.R.L Posted August 18 Posted August 18 Even for some of us who agree with Israel's right to exist, no one can deny that the red line has been crossed several times in this war, that's a FACT and if he has a problem even with those who criticise some horrible inhuman acts of this war, he can suck a d 1
A.R.L Posted August 18 Posted August 18 1 hour ago, Space Cowboy said: Hamas are a terrorist organization and they must be destroyed, but go off sis But is it hamas that is being destroyed? The answer is NO
toxicgenie Posted August 18 Author Posted August 18 9 minutes ago, Ricanaire said: Deport me where? Unfortunately I'm American. Do you think he cares? BTW American citizens have been deported in the past, look at history.
bad guy Posted August 18 Posted August 18 (edited) I'm very much ready for him to fade away into obscurity if he ends up losing. His ATRL'd meltdowns just aren't entertaining anymore. Also this goes to show how out of touch he is with even his own base who are staunchly isolationist (but will ignore this position of his of course because all they read is deportation) Edited August 18 by bad guy
Ricanaire Posted August 18 Posted August 18 27 minutes ago, toxicgenie said: Do you think he cares? BTW American citizens have been deported in the past, look at history. Deported where tho??
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